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A while ago I decided to build myself a 29er, so I bought a Stanton Sherpa frame and started collecting parts to build it with, but never got any further at the time, so it's all just sat in boxes in a cupboard and got forgotten about. Until now, when I pulled out that shiny new Sherpa frame and my interest in it has rejuvenated.
When I say a while ago, I've just realised that it's been almost 10 years! So this is an early, 1st gen Sherpa, and as such it has a 135mm qr rear end. I've got a CK ISO rear hub (with shimano HG driveshell), and at the time I was planning on using Shimano 2x 11 drivetrain (M8000 XT).
I've not kept track of bike tech over the last few years, but it seems all the decent kit is now 12 speed, and on the face of it the idea/simplicity of 1x 12 looks very appealing. But I'm running rings round myself trying to figure out what options I have here.
First issue is the 135qr/CK hub. It looks like all Shimano 12sp cassettes only fit microspline hubs? But CK don't do microspline conversion in a 135mm width? Don't think my 1st gen Sherpa has any other axle options, unlike the gen 2 and gen 3 versions? I guess if money were no object I'd throw this frame in a skip and buy a new one to get a wider rear. But it is so I guess I'm going to have to work with what I have.
It looks like 135mm microspline hubs are almost non existent, and I'd like to stick with the CK if I can. Don't want to go SRAM (just prefer Shimano, and the cost to convert to xd driveshell isn't cheap). So I thought I was out of options but now it looks like other people are making 12sp cassettes that are Shimano compatible and fit a HG freehub (Sunrace, Airbike, Brand X, others?). Are these realistic options, do they work well/as good as Shimano cassettes)?
I realise that I'll sacrifice the 10t smallest cog for an 11t. So my next part of the conundrum would be gear ratios. I'm currently riding 2x 10 on a 26er, with a 40/28 chainring and 11-36 cassette. I do ride on road (usually to get to my nearest trails), and I want my 29er to be a do everything bike as well. So I find my 26er tops out a bit low for my riding, and I'd like a little taller top gear on the 29er. There seems to be loads of 12sp XT chainset options (1x and 2x). but it looks like 1x12 XT has a biggest chain ring option of 36t? Also looks like 3rd parties are making rings up to 38t for XT fitment. I guess the front ring on a 1x setup is less critical as there's no shifting going on at the front?
40:11 currently gives me ratio of 3.63 on my 26er
36:11 with 11% up lift for the larger wheels gives identical 3.63 ratio by my reckoning?
38:11 on 29er would give slightly more - 3.83 equivalent.
I've got a hybrid bike with 29" wheels and I think that has 42:11 gearing, which I think is equivalent of 4.24, and even that feels a bit low on some of the hills round here.
So it looks like 38:11 is the tallest ratio I can get on 1x 12 on a HG freehub?
I think I'm fine at the low end of the gearing 38:52 on a 29er looks almost as low as the 28:36 that I'm used to on my existing 26er, and I almost never need to go that low anyway.
Other aspects I've not got my head around - chainline and chain ring clearance and possibly q factor/chainset axle width (looks like XT has 3 widths available). Where does the ring sit on a 1x chainset compared to the 2 on a double, or 3 on a triple? Do I run the narrowest chainset to keep the chainline right for the 135mm rear? But then I'm wondering if a 38t chainring will clear the chainstay as it'll sit further inboard than a ring of that size on a double?
Am I on the right lines, or have I missed something critical that scuppers the whole idea of 1x 12 with my current frame and hub combo?
it seems all the decent kit is now 12 speed
Just buy some 1x11 Shimano XT/XTR gear, or even recent 10 speed Deore, and whack it on. Plenty of gear range available now using those groupsets (eg 11-46 if you want). You don't really need to be fiddling getting 12 speed working.
Plenty 12sp cassettes thst will fit HG fine, but tend to be on the hesvier end.... SRAM NX, Deore, Sunrace
Garbaruk do lighter ones.
I went back from 12 speed (admittedly cheap) SRAM to 11 speed Deore, it's way more reliable and still has a massive 11 to 51 range. That'd be my recommendation.
Deore XT Linkglide if you want super longevity. Make sure and get the 700 XT cassette as well. Has the 11-50t rear cassette. Stick a 34 or 36t chainring on that and you're golden.
1x12 is very last season!
Look at Shimano Link Glide / CUES. Uses the original HG free hub and you can mix and match anything from XT down to what was Alivio spec
I love my X01 Eagle setup but let's be clear what it is - a SRAM 11-speed cassette with a dinner plate bolted to it.
If you are not a weight weenie then, as above, XT Linkglide 11 speed is a shoo-in.
1x11, , with a range of 11-46, on a traditional HG freehub fitting casette. is absolutely fine for MTB.
I have this on my hardtail and there is no reason for the 500% plus ranges on 12 speed - I know this, as I also own that type of kit on some of the other bikes.
You can get 1x11 XTR shifters/mech for a reasonable price now even. Dont get the Shimano casettes - they have a really awkward jump up to the 46 tooth.
Have a much nicer spacing as you go through the range, they shift lovely and last well. Make sure its the MX8 version, the cheaper Ms8 is rather heavy.
Chainring to suit your riding as this just sets the final drive ratio - 28 or 30 if you have 29 inch wheels, possible 30 or 32 for 27.5 inch wheels.
Thanks all, you've given me even more choices to get my head around! I'm not particularly fussed about 12s, just didn't realise 11s was now also offering a wide range on the back. I do like the taller gears so, so a 10t top would allow a slightly smaller chainring for the same ratio. There doesn't seem to be much love for 12s by the sounds of it. Although I remember when 10s and 11s were fairly new lots of people were wary about their durability/setup sensitivity.
It is for a 29er, but I don't think a 30t chainring is going to get me anywhere near the gearing that I'm used to (40:11 on a 26er). So I'm looking to put a 36 or even 38 chainring at the front. With that, I think 46 on the back would almost be as low as I need, with the option to go for a 11-51 cassette if necessary.
So now some more compatibility questions:
Do 1x 12s chainsets work with 11s chains? i.e. XT M8100 chainset with 11s?
Does M8100 rear derailleur work with 11 speed shifter (M8000)? If I use 11-51 cassette (deore or sunrace) then M8000 derailleur is only designed for up to 46t cassette?
I guess the simple solution is to run deore 11 (M5100) throughout, but I'd rather up to xt where I can. I've been looking around and Linkguide components don't seem to be readily available? Is it really new/supply issues, or am I just not looking hard enough?
If you really want 11-51 11 speed, go full Deore.
I find it hard to imagine some one with Chris King hubs wanting to botch it together
I think you stump up for an xd driver. Add a SRAM 10 52 cassette. Then either such it up and buy the rest in SRAM or I think you can just go Shimano on derailleur and shifter, but do check
Or learn to spin. I can pedal by 29er to over 40 km/h with a 30 tooth chain ring
Id just get a cassette to fit your currebt hub, accept what it is and go and ride your bike. You can get 50t 10 speed casettes even that are shimano compatable.
Just get it built - its been 10 years gathering dust. Just take a punt on a chainring and get out amd see.
I've got a 12 on the gravel and a 10 on mtb, both 1x and I never ever feel like I miss 2 extra steps.
(It’s perfectly acceptable that the answer to this is yes, by the way, I just used to think the same thing and would encourage you to mentally double check if you haven’t already)
Do you really need a top gear that tall? I’ve been steadily dropping top gear size from 44/11 and while each time I’ve thought it would annoy me, it hasn’t really. I’ve finally got down to 26*/10 and I think that’s about me done- not so much for the speed, I can still break 20mph, but it appears to be knackering all the little sprockets on the cassette ahead of schedule. I’ll probably bump back up to 28 instead of the 30 that was on before.
*for towing a kids trailer
All of which is a long winded way of getting round to the fact that I’d agree with the people saying go 11speed and either 11-46 or 51 with say a 34?
I used 32/11 on my "main" bike for a couple of years. It's good for short spurts to around or over 50kph, more than that, get in a tuck. Can sustain around 40 if fitness and leg speed is there.
My marathon bike i use a double 28/38 and 11-42, as i have averaged well over 50kph for extended periods.
i.e. just get an 11 up cassette and a 32 or 34 ring, unless you're going to be racing XC or marathons.
you won't get anything, in any # speeds, on a hg body with a 10 tooth gear, so you're stuck at 11 teeth if you want your CK hub.
Front-end, just get a 104BCD XT/XTR/Whatever chainset from a few years ago, giving you a massive range for narrow-wide front rings depending on how much gearing you want.
So I’m looking to put a 36 or even 38 chainring at the front.
Your choice of course, but I wouldn't gear the bike for the road bits, I'd gear it for the off-road bits and accept the 2-3mph difference in top end. Unless you're racing; who cares if you're doing 18mph instead of 20-21.mph?
I guess the simple solution is to run deore 11 (M5100) throughout, but I’d rather up to xt where I can.
I'd look at a Deore 11-50 cassette, an XT mech - M8000, even the med cage will handle the 50T with no issues, and even if you can't get it to work, there are goat-links and longer cages available aftermarket ), XT shifter and XT front chainset with a boggo 32T chainring. Nice looking (where it counts) everything works together, no spares issues.
There doesn’t seem to be much love for 12s by the sounds of it.
Personally; after running SRAM 12sp, (mix of XO1 and GX) you'd need to pay me to start using Shimano again, and I was a proper Shimano fan.
My 2016 RM has a 135mm 11 speed American classic rear hub, I went 1 X 11 cos the bike originally was 2X10.
XT HG 11-46 cassette. 11 speed chain (no, 12 speed aren't compatible). It's great. Can't say I notice any difference in the ratios to my Eagle 12 spd bike. Well, I think I did at first and swapped the front chainring for a smaller one. Works beautifully
There doesn’t seem to be much love for 12s by the sounds of it. Although I remember when 10s and 11s were fairly new lots of people were wary about their durability/setup sensitivity.
12 speed has been common place for +5 years now, it works perfectly well.
Has the frame got a straight or tapered headtube, if the former then TBH as it's also an ancient 135 QR rear end I'd just sell it on and buy something modern.
IIRC the Sherpa has always had a straight 44mm headtube that can take a tapered steerer using a external bottom cup. So all modern forks can be fitted.