On the flatter routes yes, but on the hills, w/kg would take over again so you’d need to specify a wattage and a max w/kg for climbs. Average lap speed would smooth all of that out.

Isn’t this the same with real life bike riding though. It’s why generally the little guys are the best climbers and the bigger ones are the sprinters. w/kg has less effect on the flat as weight isn’t as much of an issue and it’s all down to power output.
So I’d say it’s not a flawed way of grouping people, it’s just some are more suited to hilly courses and others to flat. I guess you just have to pick the rides best suited to you.
As a heavier rider it’s good for me because I generally know if I’m matching the w/kg of the riders around me then I’m not going to be going slower than they are, but on the hilly courses that can mean a world of pain as I’m having to maintain 300w+ up the climbs to keep up with a lighter rider doing around 200w

It’s a flawed method of advertising an anonymous group ride I think is the point. Without knowing the weight of the ride leader, it tells you nothing about the proposed speed of the ride.

I get ya.
Are there other ways for the organisers to categorise it? Is this a case of Zwift only providing w/kg as a form of categorising or is it the organisers just doing what they’ve always done?

I think the early pioneers of Zwift Beta got carried away at having that metric on offer 😀
I think the size of the number on screen shows that Zwift never really intended it to have much use beyond briefly seeing what the riders around you are up to.

Like all these sorts of things though, Zwift HQ have stayed remarkably quiet about it and just let the community thrash things out themselves.

crosshair – Member
It’s a flawed method of advertising an anonymous group ride I think is the point. Without knowing the weight of the ride leader, it tells you nothing about the proposed speed of the ride.

Wouldn’t go quite that far, it gives a reasonable indication IMO, sure it may be 50w either way, but if you’re a D and turn up to a 3.0w/kg ride you know you’re not cutting it.

Even if you can’t hold the advertised group leader, you’ll generally find more than a few people at the same weight and w/kg as yourself if you’re picking based upon say a 2.0w/kg ride.

Whilst it’s flawed, it’s far from terrible.

Could always just enjoy it as a game

I’m planning on trying to listen to the advice of the masses on here and not race today.
Today is day 1 of fasting, so i’ve got a couple of coffees to keep me going until 5pm and then some fish and rice… a lovely 600cal day !

So i’m staying off the race today, there’s a PACK social at 7.15pm which i may jump on for a while, or may just have a little pootle on the lanes depending on what my little mans plans are after school today.

for a group ride really to be predictable they’d have to use 2 descriptors; w/kg uphill AND W on the flat for the leader. You then know that you’ll have to pretty much match the leader up hills and be pretty close to them on the flats (less20% or so if you draft ?)

On their own, neither’s better and for average speed to work you’d have to have the light riders pulling away on climbs, just so they could be caught on the flats, so not actually a grouped ride

Or they allow/insist everyone have their weight set to the same number for group rides and then you could call it purely on watts (I wonder if zwift could do that automatically?)

I’ve never done a Zwift group ride, but it sounds like a normal real life group ride to me. You’re either complaining that it’s too quick or too slow.
Good to see they have made it so realistic 😀

Did the Euro Decaf with 24 in the field.

Short version: I have a lot to learn.

Longer version: Liked the format of a warm up lap then an all out race to the finish (about 15k). It was advertised as a 2.2 w/kg warm up. The leader was doing 2.2 in erg mode and it took me 2.4-2.5 to keep up. I was starting to puff quite a lot by the time the race started.

I managed to stay with the lead group until about 5k to go. I then fell off the back and could not get back on (I am officially blaming my daughter for coming in and asking me a question when I could hardly talk and then doing it again, I swear for her own entertainment).

I ended up in a one on one race until the end, when I made the rookie mistake of using an aero power up with 2k to go. He passed me with 1k to go…

Still happy with 7th in C grade and only 30 sec off a trophy.

I was pretty shattered at the end, but it was fun.

Good work. Would love to start work at a more reasonable hour and be able to get a zwift ride/race in beforehand.

Anyone doing either the 5pm or 7pm WBR 4 lap flat race today? Hoping I’ll be home and ready in time for the 5pm race but if not I’ll hang on for the 7pm.

Done a couple of short sessions to ease myself back in – reminding myself how much it hurts (lots) and how much fun it is (lots), might have a crack at the 5pm WBR as my first race of the season.

So the PRS One ride on Sunday, advertised at 2-3w/kg

Group leader is 80kg, average power 189w = 2.36w/kg

Random rider 1 73kg, average power 182w = 2.49w/kg

Random rider 2 66kg, average power 172w = 2.6w/kg

I’m not using myself as I’d be a poor example.

https://www.zwiftpower.com/race.php?id=12689

Not seeing any issue here?

Not seeing any issue here?

That’s because you’re not 95kg.

Just did the EVR race and it was surprisingly a small field. I decided not to go with the lead group and just concentrate on being the lead cat B rider so i ended up hanging off the lead group by a couple of secs and nobody wanted to bridge the gap after a few km i just let them slip away. For pretty much 40km it was just me and 1 other B and a random cat a. I knew the B rider from a previous race and he hung out with the A group so i knew he was stronger than me and it was london classique course so a lack of a long climb meant not much chance of dropping him so we all pootled to the end for a sprint finish. I went a long way out (0.6km) to see if it would discourage them but they passed me with 100 meters to go, i didnt go full out so it was inevitable, silver trophy but it was a small field.

Well that went OK actually.

Did a race, i know i know, it’s fasting day, tell someone who’ listening 😉

3.05PM WBR 4 lap London Classique.

The group went off at bonkers speed, 6-7 guys just FLEW, i left them to it and hung with 2 others…. They were pushing the best part of 4.0w/kg so i thought “sod that, i can’t hang” and looked at the list, the next group of 5-6 were 7s behind and closing on me, so jumping on with them looked like the plan. Over the next full lap we caught them 2 and all grouped, there were a couple of strong guys for sure, i used my PUs really really well, always somewhere around Horseguards hill as that’s my weakness, this enabled me to stay with them for the next 3 laps. Into the final lap, i’d had to push after Horseguards, so i was hanging on a bit, we crossed the line in a group, i got an Aero, not too bad, hanging in the group until 500m before Horsegaurds i hit the button and was in 2nd on the group, but 2 people were now sticking out 4.5w/kg in the run towards the hill and the group shattered, i was 5th out of 6 in the group and losing ground, i stuck in 4.0 up the kicker, but still lost ground, i was now 5s behind the guy ahead and 2 ahead of the fella behind. Kicked up a gear to 10th on the cassette (29er is MTB gearing) and held about 3.1w/kg for the next 1.8km ! Yes, that 1.8km seems VERY far when you’re hitting 180bpm which is my MHR on a good day… I managed to hold him off, but never closed on the gent in front.

I’ll be interested to see how many DQs come out of that.

Was arguably my best race for a while and my split times for the zwift verified lap were my best in 2 months, only by 2-15s but they were my best set of 4 for a long time, since April really when i must have been at my peak.

I didn’t bonk 😉 I survived…. only an hour until i can consume my 600cals…. in about 4 seconds !

Well done! I don’t care what you do until you moan about it all baffled and confused 😆

What you need to be aware of now is that you haven’t fully replaced what you used in the race. So if you race again before you’ve replenished your stores- you’ll bonk.
Even after a mornings fasting you should have had upwards of 1000 or so calories of glycogen available so that’s why you got through your race ok. You’ve used around 700 plus whatever exercise you did just moving around today so if you raced early tomorrow morning (like what you did last time!) it’s simple maths to see you wouldn’t get far into it until you bonk.

You post as if you’ve cheated science or something 😆 😛

You post as if you’ve cheated science or something

Lol nah. Just not convinced I work hard enough for it to be an issue mostly, but it’s not important anyhow.
Tomorrow is rest day and wed will be a bimble, then race Thur again.

I’m still miles off my best though but not worrying, just trying to keep going and going.

Ended up 4th in C. The guy who won C was a bit weird as he destroyed anyone else in C at 107kg, but his profile pic looks closer to 80kg lol. He would have ended 3rd in B. Seems to win every C he enters.

https://www.zwiftpower.com/profile.php?id=304500

https://www.zwiftpower.com/race.php?id=12864

Richard Dalen, tallest man in Norway. 7ft6 😀

Did the WBR race at 17:05
Any idea why I would’ve been upgraded from D to C? Not that bothered but being fairly new to this I just want to know how it works. My average w/kg was lower than the winner of D
Great race though. Real nip and tuck between myself and P. Ingelrest I remembered what someone here had said about surging so kept doing it around the course. I saw he was quicker than me in the sprints on the previous laps so just went for it about 2km from the line to see if I could get a gap and hold it. Which I did. Properly ruined at the end of it though. This is like heroin. Already planning the next fix 😆

weeksy

That’s because you’re not 95kg.

My statement is that it’s as a group ride is it as advertised 2-3w/kg. The numbers actually show the heavier you are the less w/kg you’d need to stick with the group.

I think a larger rider that could do 2.2w/kg+ would be fine as long as they kept in the draft.

Muggo, I can’t see why you’ve been upgraded, unles they use some funny algorithm beyond simple 20 min power (won category by more than x% or something)

Great result though – morally a gold trophy, plus mid-pack C !

That’s a weird one! Well done though buddy!

Urgh, I’m getting sick of being shat out by the D group every week. The summer took my fitness in exchange for pizza and craft beer 😥

andeh – Member
Urgh, I’m getting sick of being shat out by the D group every week. The summer took my fitness in exchange for pizza and craft beer

Is it the start killing you? Middle? Hills? Your weight?

andeh – Member
Urgh, I’m getting sick of being shat out by the D group every week. The summer took my fitness in exchange for pizza and craft beer

I know what you mean, I was mid pack c before a summer off, now struggling in D and remembering how hard it is to form groups in D. I’ll be off the bike again next month so just trying to stop myself slipping back further

It’s no bother. I’d rather have a mid place finish in C than a win in D. I might switch to C for the flat ones from now on. If I’d known they were going to upgrade me I’d have pushed on and stayed with the Cs that I was riding with up until lap 3. At that point I held a bit back as I could see it was just between me and the other fella and I wanted to save a bit for a sprint finish. Ended up going on the last mini climb as I was dropping him every lap at that point anyway.
Overall pretty bloody pleased with the race and felt strong and in control. Didn’t feel at any point that I was on the limit.

That’s a weird one. I’m now back in D and P. Ingelrest has been upped to C? I guess that makes it my first win. Feel a bit like some Olympian picking up my medal 8 years later after some Russian was caught doping 😆

1705 WBR

Awesome!

A podium in C for stw too!

We need to bring out the big hitters with Nath and CH for A and B along with our other current fast boys

STW win in every category would be great wouldn’t it
They said on the Club WBR Facebook group that “something went screwy” so they reran the results. Still going to enter as a C for flat races in future. I need to shift some real life timber so I can do better on the hilly ones.
But I’ve just cracked open the Champers to celebrate the win so the diet will have to wait for another day

Is it the start killing you? Middle? Hills? Your weight?

I just don’t have the legs to consistently put out 2.5w/kg at the minute, I’m fine on the hills but it’s just maintaining pace on the flat. My HR is still top of Z3, but my legs just can’t keep up. I’ve put on about 5kg over summer, but that’s probably losing some muscle too.

I’ve been trying to do high cadence sprints a couple of times a week to get a bit of power back and try to break my diesel engine ways of pushing 70RPM everywhere.

That’s what a summer of riding uplifted DH will do to you 🙄

But I’ve just cracked open the Champers to celebrate the win so the diet will have to wait for another day

ewww – went to a couple of gigs that were a bit like that in the late 70s. Wasn’t cut out to be a proper punk 🙁

My statement is that it’s as a group ride is it as advertised 2-3w/kg. The numbers actually show the heavier you are the less w/kg you’d need to stick with the group.

I think a larger rider that could do 2.2w/kg+ would be fine as long as they kept in the draft.

Thing is Nath, 2-3 is a big range. Many are advertised much tighter.

Also, (ZSUN as an example) I join with a rough expectation of the wattage required to meet my training goals. If the wattage is appreciably lower, I’m not logging out and starting a fresh ride especially when a few others are willing to join me. I’m not being a rebel, just using my subscription as I see fit- nobody has to follow or interrupt their ride so meh!

As I say, this used to happen with Monica and Stew. One week would be x Watts and feel perfect. So I’d join next week on a ride advertised at the same w/kg and find the pace way too slow. Grouping by lap speed would solve this inconsistency- the ‘pace’ would be the same regardless.

W/kg isn’t even a ‘pace’ anyway as there’s no time component 😆

Lol- Scaredypants and Blader are bigger B hitters than me. Besides, I’m Team TFC innit 😉

Besides, I’m Team TFC innit

Like that then hey! I’m going to set the boys on you next time 😆

The World Championship TTT event is coming up soon, it’s one of the biggest races and organised by TFC’s Tam Burns. STW should submit some teams.

Sadly I’m busy for it as usual.

Weeksy- I’ve spent a fortune on TFC kits- I’m not changing now 😆

Maybe I’ve got my bias cap on, and this was my first ever group ride, but the ride leader was very keen on keeping everyone together. Even if it meant slowing everyone down he did it. Anyway I’ll be sending out a Zwift group invite, it was great to see some STWs there last Sunday.

As for winning A cat, ha that’s not going to happen anytime soon! Someone else is going to have to take the lead on that one.

The World Championship TTT event is coming up soon, it’s one of the biggest races and organised by TFC’s Tam Burns. STW should submit some teams.

When’s that? What’s the format? Drafting team style?