To win a C race, you have to race against a bunch of people who can all do sufficient W/kg to get DQ’d, and do better / get luckier than them at dipping under the threshold. That’s silly.

That’s the main downside for me. You’re not always racing the people you should be in that context. There’s a guy who seems to win a load of D’s, i think he’s got an ‘average power meter’ setup somewhere. you can find yourself trying to hang with Cs and getting blown out, but then finding out, most of there are DQs anyway !

I don’t really know what the answer the the problem is.

hell yeah. how about power downs that you can apply to others.

maybe a pie symbol to suddenly make someone really fat…

To win a C race, you have to race against a bunch of people who can all do sufficient W/kg to get DQ’d, and do better / get luckier than them at dipping under the threshold. That’s silly.

not sure about that.

I’ve had 4 thirds and one win now in C’s. I’m rarely out of the top ten in a C race and I’m not holding anything back.

I’ve had 4 thirds and one win now in C’s. I’m rarely out of the top ten in a C race and I’m not holding anything back.

I guess the question is… in the races you got the podium/win, was that your actual finish position within the cat/race ?

the last race where i got the zwiftpower win, i was 10th across the line, ~50s back from the ‘winner’.

in general, hold the fastest group, don’t try and chase the guys pulling 4w/kg off the front and you’ll be in with a good chance.

That’s the point being made.. In the races you were 3rd, the guys in 1st/2nd may have been taking it slightly easy at times to stay below the Cat limit, the guys ahead of you who were DQ’d may have just got it slightly wrong. Just because you’re on your limit, doesn’t mean the other are, they could be just playing the numbers and going for race wins for example.

I agree with your tactics and logic though.

So I was just racing with someone with STW in their name – G.McMurdo, anyone here!?

Richmond course raced ok I thought, pan flat, but basically an FTP test! Definitely need to move up now though, if I’m not DQ’d!

I’ve obviously not done enough to experience some of those issues, can see they’d be a right pain!

Also, even if a guy ahead of you was on his limit, but got DQ’d because his limit that day was 3.26 W/kg or whatever, that’s a bit weird, isn’t it? He was still there, he didn’t do anything wrong, he was just a touch stronger than you on the day.

Of course, in that set-up, you played the game exactly right, and all credit to you. I just think that the construct is wacky.

In real life amateur sport there’s of course a broadly similar situation – anyone who wins a 4th Cat race could clearly cope in a 3rd Cat race, so there’s an arbitrary boundary there too. But to win a 4th Cat race you have crossed the line before all the guys around you. That’s what racing is. It sounds like you currently just happen to be *just* below one arbitrary boundary, which is fine. In my preferred system, after a win and four 3rds you’d be looking at moving up though.

In setting the boundaries as they have, they essentially force each lower category race to be won by someone who *only just* didn’t get disqualified for being too good.

There are downsides to other ways of running it too though, I’m not claiming to have a perfect answer.

In my preferred system, after a win and four 3rds you’d be looking at moving up though.

see previous post…

So how do you know if you get DQ’d? Is it only if you enter a specific category race? Ie if you enter a cat B specific race and get >4w/kg? The first one I did a load of people had been moved up categories in ZP, but that was a WBR “all comers” race.

Sorry, it’s probably been discussed 39 times in the last billion posts!

I think zwiftpower often overscores power on the live results, so you get to wait & see what happens when the “real” result (though see my post above) is released

just found your race – I think the winner got their weight-doping wrong 😀

I think zwiftpower often overscores power on the live results,

yep. I think the live results use data from the ‘watchers’. I think because they are placed on strategic points like starts, sprints, climbs and the finish, they see the big efforts not the recoveries in between.

I usually drop from ~3.3 on the live results to ~3.1 on the final results.

A lot of this are the reasons why I don’t bother to race, along with I generally don’t have the attention span to keep it up for the full hour.

Thankfully, with the clocks about to change, and the slow weather improvement, along with actual, proper race season about to kick off, I can take the road bike off the turbo & throw it in the back of the cupboard until October.

Now I get to ride my bike outside, in the woods, having fun. Zwift has been great in serving it’s purpose of keeping me on the bike this long (usually sick by Xmas).

I’ll celebrate with one last go after work today 🙂

just found your race – I think the winner got their weight-doping wrong

Bit weird, he was up the road with a Canadian guy, S.Humphries I think it was, no sign of him. Definitely an A then now it seems, but I’ll take 3rd in A, even out of 5!

A lot of this are the reasons why I don’t bother to race, along with I generally don’t have the attention span to keep it up for the full hour.

Many (most) aren’t an hour, the one I did was 33 minutes, which was actually a bit short for my liking! I think it’s really good fun, but take it at face value, it’s not real after all!

No, it’s not real, but there are plenty of times you would/will ride when you ordinarily wouldn’t have…. and there’s plenty of times you’ll rider harder than you would have before… Which in itself can never be a bad thing.

Whether you take the results seriously or not, Zwift racing has been brilliant for many on here and i expect many in the world, from a training, fitness and performance perspective… it’s the future.

In the past 2 weeks my Zwifting time has dropped due to being outside more… but i still expect plenty of Zwifting as it’s just another experience and perspective you have on cycling.

Fair enough weeksy but it’s made me wonder about real-world racing 😆 , so that’s one point against it!

No, it’s not real, but there are plenty of times you would/will ride when you ordinarily wouldn’t have…. and there’s plenty of times you’ll rider harder than you would have before… Which in itself can never be a bad thing.

ironically, the one that I won the other night, i was feeling lazy and wasn’t going to race and just go for a pootle to finish the everest challenge. felt quite strong so when a reminder popped up I couldn’t resist.

No, it’s not real, but there are plenty of times you would/will ride when you ordinarily wouldn’t have…. and there’s plenty of times you’ll rider harder than you would have before… Which in itself can never be a bad thing.

I totally agree, hence having done 3 races in a week, I think it’s really good, I just meant that some people saying “I won’t do it because of these issues” should just take it for what it is, a great training tool.

If it encourages people into real racing then great. It’s got a lot of similarities IMO, it’s a very reasonable comparison!

scaredypants – Member

Fair enough weeksy but it’s made me wonder about real-world racing , so that’s one point against it!

Well, the simple facts of that is…. Unless you try it, you’ll never ever know. IMO you’d be damn close to holding a Cat4 speed. I wasn’t quick enough, but we we’re aware, you’re quicker than me…. Crosshair is a good gauge, so check out his times on Strava segments, he’s now what you’d class as a solid Cat4, so if you can compare with him, then it’s just down to skills, technique, etc… But in a speed perspective it’s got to be pretty close for you.

I’m really glad i tried the race, it was a cracking experience. But it didn’t give me what i wanted psycholigically to make me continue doing it again and again like CH and Nath.

it’s made me wonder about real-world racing

Opposite for me. All the pain of Zwift racing only with added expense, travelling, weekends taken up & potential for injury? Nah you can stick it 🙂

and there’s plenty of times you’ll rider harder than you would have before… Which in itself can never be a bad thing will inevitably lead to burnout and a summer feeling disinterested and sorry for yourself.

FTFY

crosshair’s got that special hat though – I couldn’t possibly compete

My main worry (I don’t care about the being dropped part) is that the biggest group I have ever ridden in has been five people and very rarely ride with anyone else. I’d have no idea in a bunch and I know I’d hang off the back as a result to keep out of trouble. I’m told that inevitably leads to being dropped.

So, end result would be “entered a race, didn’t really engage with it, dropped, quit, wasted a day”

Can’t really be joining a club and doing chaingangs to learn how – just don’t have the time

TTs, though …

FTFY

You’re a constant bundle of joy you.

My main worry (I don’t care about being dropped) is that the biggest group I have ever ridden in has been five people and very rarely ride with anyone else. I’d have no idea in a bunch and I know I’d hang off the back as a result to keep out of trouble. I’m told that inevitably leads to being dropped.

So, end result would be “entered a race, didn’t really engage with it, dropped, quit, wasted a day”

Are you me ?

😆 – I think fifeandy is probably a proper racer with a plan and everything, rather than “rag it for an hour and then spend the evening driving your kids round”

I’d suggest your average STW Zwifter is quite a way from overtraining!

Are you me ?

No – prettier, I’m sure !
I’m genuinely surprised that you didn’t get into it as I imagined you’d enjoy the “fight”. I’m very non-competitive, I think partly why I like using strava and zwift is that’s really me v me

I imagined you’d enjoy the “fight”.

If i hadn’t been knocked out in the first minute of round one, maybe i would have

So out of interest , where would a solid cat4 racer place in a typical KISS Europe race.
I haven’t raced road ever , and my last mtb race was 20 years ago when I was 21 . But I’m sort of hoping that when I get to top end catC on Zwift I can re-enter racing in the real world and hold my own in the vets cyclocross or cat 4 road.

I would say Mid B’s or the very very pointy end of C would be about right. Somewhere around 3.2w/kg in Zwift world. Of course a lot depends on your roadie skills as CH and Nath are now able to pack in Cat 4 with lower output of power… But IMO that’s pretty much as much tactics. As CH has found a lot, it’s just just about your actual W or W/KG even, but the speed/recovery, the 30s here, the 60s there at 400W as the bunch surges and peaks…

I’ve joined the team, so I feel like a proper racer!

I’m virtually certain my turbo (Vortex) is wildly overestimating my power, I’m sure I shouldn’t be putting out the quoted figures. Need to get my P1s fixed so I can check them!

Thanks, yes I think that 3.2w/kg would put me at the pointy end if C – my new end of summer target 🙂
Cheers

50km on and around the Ridgeway last night, then 60km of crazy hills today have killed me off. I need a few days rest!

I did about 30km of the pretzel this morning and it was very strange because i didnt really notice the resistance on the trainer. I thought it might be broken but everytime the hill flattened i felt myself spinning out. This means i am either in peak physical condition or i am a climbing legend or everybody was just real slow today. It was an odd sensation as visually the hill looked far steeper than anything on the other courses yet it was only registering 6% and i was cruising in quite a big gear.

It obviously depends on your turbo in terms of what resistance it can simulate. Personally with my Vortex I’m in 50-11/12/13 most of the time!

Three laps of Richmond Park this morning felt strangely not dissimilar to Zwift to be honest – close the gap! It would be an obvious digitisation, as the most popular Strava segment in the world.

I’m still struggling with the notion of Events and how to find them. The Tacz\CAAD8\Wahoo sensors runs fine, the ipad mini is a bit small for my eyesight in a dim garage, but an hour or so of climbing is all good.

Zwift reads 150W and 140 bpm at a flat Zwift indicated 32 km/h using a Sartori on Level 4 resistance. Rider is 68 kg on settings. Sound reasonable?

TiRed, 150w doesn’t sound much for 20mph on the flat but I can’t say it’s wrong (was it on the TT bike?)

Have you no access to a “proper” power meter (i.e. not a powerpod)?
Best would be to use that for genuine comparison/calibration

Would you expect to do 20mph at 150w on the flat in real life? I recall you’re a bit heavier than me, so I presume not.

Zwift watts aren’t intended to be any different to real watts, so that sounds a little low to me.

The Stages is away on loan. I’m actually not that bothered about the absolute number, but on a recent 95km ride my powerpod registered 219W for a flat 13 km at 32 kmh at the end without wind. Probably just the setting on the resistance (it’s on 4/10).