mokeyfudger - its not that easy - its very difficult to store and transport hydrogen cos its such a slippy customer, Its one of the major obstacles in using hydrogen in cars. it escapes from anything just about
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Will the electric Mini make it?
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Posted 1 year ago #
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Why are they still tring to justify Electric cars as the future? In the process of this experiment he will probably use more energy to charge the car than a small Cul-De-Sac use daily and produce more CO2 than one of the new VW bluemotion Passats which will do 1500 miles or so on a full tank :/
Who's 'they'? Electric cars are a solution to a certain kind of motoring. No-one's saying they are 'the answer', anyone with half a brain can see that.
And electric cars fuelled with leccy from coal power stations produce about 88g/km CO2 I think and only 28 from gas (what we have in the UK). If I remember correctly.
The future in my eyes is hydrogen fuel cells, we already have a pretty damn good distribution network set up for transporting explosive liquid around
It's much more complicated than this. We don't have a distribution network that would suit Hydrogen as fuel.
I have just had a genius idea for electric cars.
Fit them all with petrol engines
GM are way ahead of you. Chevy Volt, and there's a Vauxhall version coming out soon.
Do some googling before starting threads like this ffs.
Posted 1 year ago # -
You know, seeing as Autocar tested one 12 months ago and got an everage of 62mpg I really don't believe that the new one can almost double that unless they're pulling one of these:
bluemotion enters guiness book of records
I too believe Hydrogen is the way forward, what holds it back isn't the transporting and the infrastructure but the fact it doesn't exist naturally. Through something like electrolisis of water you have to extract it. That itself using more energy than the hydrogen contains.
Perhaps a combination of nuclear fission and a hydrogen fuel cell is where it's at.
This was quite interesting linky
Posted 1 year ago # -
Who's 'they'? Electric cars are a solution to a certain kind of motoring. No-one's saying they are 'the answer', anyone with half a brain can see that.
Did I say they aren't the answer? Not really. But I don't agree they are the solution to a certain kind of motoring. Want to go green? Get a horse, use a bus or buy a new bike.
Simple maths of how much it takes to 'fuel' a house for a day, compared to that of charging a car and it's evident. An average uk house uses about 10kWh of energy. The mini uses 28kWh for full charge. That's an additional 2.8 houses of electricity you are using to charge your brand new electric car each night just so you can pop to the shops and back because that's all you are able to do.
Based on the figures I could find, the Passat produced about 206kgCO2 on it's 1500+ journey. The mini on the same distance would use produce about 192kgCO2. Okay, so it won't produce more CO2 but is this it's a difference enough to worth investing more money and energy creating in infrastructure for such little gain? Needless to say the numerous new power stations that will need to be built due to the the increase load on the grid and no-one want nuclear do they? :/
'They', by-the-way, are the local councils, governments, corporate stake holders and other ill advised bodies who try to convince us with incentives, leaflet drops and advertising that any electric car is 'green' car but anyone with half a brain would know that!
Posted 1 year ago # -
What we have here is the potential for a shift in how we view transport. For certain tasks, cars are the most convenient way to make the journey in hand. And whilst electric cars have limited range at the moment, it is possibly that limitation that has the greater potential to reduce over all car usage. True the materials they are made of are expensive and in many cases rare, but you have zero pollution (at point of use) which is good in a city environment, they creat less noise, so that's better for deliveries etc. Regarding recharging, sooner or later it has to be acknowledged that a) we will run out of fossil fuels, b) the release over a period of around 200 years of CO2 that took millions of years to store will have an effect on how our atmosphere functions. So we need to change our way of producing electricity.
Current technology and political instability does not favour nuclear. Get your hads on some spent nuclear fuel and you have potential at least for a bomb that can contaminate a sizable area of a city centre, probably more. get your self a decommissioned wind turbine and possibly you can create really expensive crisps. An old water preheater might give you a nasty burn on a hot sunny day and composting might make you unpopular with your neighbours, particularly if you live in a flat, but will not contaminate or impact on the environment as much as digging up the black stuff or using nuclear fission.
hydrogen is a great answer, you can use solar and wind and wave power to split water to get oxygen and Hydrogen. but it's a gas, a really explosive gas that would need to be pressurised. If someone cocks up at the pump with hydrogen, you'll need more than a bucket of sand.
The future's bright, the future's orange. that big shiney thing up there. Of course, I'm in Scotland. we only have anecdotal evidence of its existence.
Posted 1 year ago # -
What will power hover cars? Or the boats we'll all need when sea levels rise?
Posted 1 year ago # -
you could use tethered salmon in an open ended cylinder. water in at one end, picture of attractive female salmon as incentive, very fast water out of the other. I wonder if I can patent that?
Posted 1 year ago # -
elliott-20 - Member
Simple maths of how much it takes to 'fuel' a house for a day, compared to that of charging a car and it's evident.
An average uk house uses about 10kWh of energy. The mini uses 28kWh for full charge. That's an additional 2.8 houses of electricity you are using to charge your brand new electric car each night just so you can pop to the shops and back because that's all you are able to do.
who's feeling a bit grumpy and needs a hug?
the mini uses 28kwh for a full charge, that'll last me a week (100miles).
28kwh would cost me ... £2.80 (10p/kwh)
100 miles in my 45 mpg diesel car would cost me ... ... £13.13 (£1.30 / litre)
simple maths
Posted 1 year ago # -
No one has come up with an answer to the obvious problem. There are too many people demanding too much energy from a very limited and mostly non renewable supply.
So ration the supply and reduce the demand by reducing the population. Reduce the population by reducing conception until its at a level the rescources can support.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Based on the figures I could find, the Passat produced about 206kgCO2 on it's 1500+ journey. The mini on the same distance would use produce about 192kgCO2.
Do quoted car CO2 levels reflect the entire CO2 output, from drilling, transporting and refining the oil?
Posted 1 year ago # -
I doubt it. They just tell you what comes out of your exhaust pipe.
So ration the supply and reduce the demand by reducing the population
Always a great idea, but no one ever offers to go first....
great post on the last page collin
Posted 1 year ago # -
Do quoted car CO2 levels reflect the entire CO2 output, from drilling, transporting and refining the oil?
No
You also need to look at pollution / energy consumption in manufacture and disposal asd average lifespan.
On that bsis volvo amazon / landrover defender comes out well as they have long life
Posted 1 year ago # -
who's feeling a bit grumpy and needs a hug?
Yeah I get grumpy, but only when people are down right belittling. Why you offering free hugs?
Do quoted car CO2 levels reflect the entire CO2 output, from drilling, transporting and refining the oil?
As TJ said, no. But neither is the entire CO2 output worked out in the same way for EV's. Also the Passat to Mini comparison is a bit skewed. To compare would be better to use an equivalent Polo or something.
However, straight back into the Hydrogen corner, this was posted this morning:
http://www.engadget.com/2011/01/10/mercedes-kicks-off-f-cell-world-drive-circumnavigating-the-glob/
Posted 1 year ago #
Topic Closed
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