Help !

My wife has known that she will get diabetes for years and has been burying her head in the sand, anyway, the time has come that she can hide no more and needs to move onto medication and sort her life out.

The biggest problem is that she has a naturally pretty ordinary diet, she eats no fruit (orange juice is the closest that she comes to this), few veggies (mushrooms, carrots, sweet corn, potatoes and parsnips is pretty much it) and loves sweets and cakes. All of this is the opposite to me, I eat everything, have a fairly healthy diet, ride the best part of 10,000 km a year etc (which annoys her because she says I find it all too easy)

My question is this, how can I best help her ? She is a fiercely private person, stubborn as hell and incredibly stoic, she never talks about anything until it's invariably too late. She also suffers from Rheumatoid Arthritis and has done for 15 years. All I want to do is let her know that I love her and really care about what she is going through, but to be honest after 22 years of being together, sometimes I just don't know how to break the shell around her, she feels if she lets it crack, she'll fall apart.

I know, this is a weird thing to talk about on a MTB forum, but I have made great friends on here over many, many years and I just know that somewhere out there in STW world, someone will have gone through this before. Whilst she is not a depressive person, I know that this kind of diagnosis can lead to a spiral of depression, I want to help that not happen.

We have had periods when she has been well aware of her propensity of this disease and we have been on a Low-GI diet (when we were living in Australia – its very big there) I lost 20 kg and she lost 12, (no real point in mentioning this other than showing that I will happily join in anything that she needs to do) so it worked, BUT it affected her feeling of self and mental well being enormously, she is an all or nothing person and really she needs (IMO) to find a half way house. But thats not that easy with her diet.

Anyone out there who can give me a hand, I would be incredibly grateful, I am desperate, really desperate to do whatever I can do to help her out. We have been together 1/2 my life and to be honest, she is my life. She has made me a better person for knowing her, now its my turn to give something back, but WTF should I do ??

Thanks guys, I hope someone out there might be able to teach an old dog a few new tricks to help out his missus.

S

Hmmm – a lot more issues than just food I guess. However remember you can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it drink

Can you take over cooking and organising the food?

Short, sharp smack in the face and told to sort herself out…it's a problem but not one that should change much in your life if it is properly controlled – learning how to control it is hard and the first few months are difficult but it does get easier and things do go back to normality.

I'd tell her to sort herself out and get it sorted so that things can improve all round – tell her she isn' a kid anymore and she should get herself sorted – don't be as blunt as that though, reassure her that you are there as well and you are more than willing to help gets things going and sorted).

How did she know she would get diabetes? It isn't something that just happens (in most cases)…genetically it is still slim that it can be passed on – it's very possible but not a guarantee…so how did she know?

Sorry the above might sound rather harsh – Type 1 for last 33 years of my 34 years (which will explain why I've got such a biased outlook on it!) so it isn't an issue and I just don't understand why it is an issue for people when it is so easy to live with these days (compared to how it used to be). It's not an instant change and adjustment, it does take time, but stay positive and it will get much easier…

Also, get in touch with your local Diabetes Group, they will have people you can talk to and offer some advice on how you can help your wife – although she is suffering the disease, it affects everyone around her and you also can get advice on how to help. She should do the same so she realises it isn't just her that has this and there are many people who deal with this on a daily basis and it doesn't stop them from having a fulfilled life.

Initially I'm guessing there is a huge fear and dread of the unknown, but if she can talk to folk and start researching it, the unknown suddenly becomes very small and insignificant.

I am in the same, or very similar, boat to Dick, had Type 1 diabetes for 33 of my (nearly) 41 years and can't really add much to the comments he has posted. With the right support and help she can get on with life in a near normal way. From what you have said though it would seem she may be Type 2 rather than 1, as Dick says above, there is nothing concrete to suggest it is passed on generation to generation etc. My personal take on things is Diabetes doesn't stop you doing anything, what it does do is make you think a bit more about what you are doing. If Type 1 she can control it and not have to give up the cakes and sweets completely, just reduce the quantity and replace with better food.

Also try diabetes uk as there are plenty of helpful people out there.

Good luck.

Tricky.

Not uncommon for people with newly diagnosed diabetes to go into denial and think that if they carry on normally it will all somehow go away. I am assuming that this is Type 2 diabetes ( later onset, treated initially with diet and tablets ). I suppose from the psychological point of view the fact that there is overwhelming evidence that keeping good levels of blood sugar and blood pressure hugely reduces the risk of complications including heart attacks and strokes gives you an in along the lines of – I want to keep you around/healthy so can we find out what we both need to change -, but my main advice would be for both of you to talk to the practice nurse about diet, lifestyle etc. and if necessary get advice from the local Diabetes Specialist Nurses and Dietitians who deal with this full time.

Most areas run patient education courses, its a NICE requirement, (google as needed for this and what follows)- but whereas for Type 1 there is pretty much universal use of DAFNE, for Type 2 there are a variety of approved courses. Locally, we use Xpert, but others use DESMOND and there are some others that I know of as well. Find out what is available locally and look to get a place. Xpert is a half day a week for 6 weeks, it's small group teaching and everyone else is in the same boat, they answer a lot of questions quickly and give access to the nurses and dietitians who are specialists in this field and partners/spouses are often welcome so you get a heads up as well. Practice nurse should have all this information.

As Kinky Friedmann (a splendid fellow: Texan Jewish Country & Western Singer, Private Detective, Cook, Author, Dope Fiend, Drinker, etc. etc.) once wrote:

"Sometimes you've just got to find what you like and let it kill you"

It's not my sentiment, and I'm not saying it applies to you, but sometimes it seems to fit.

The biggest problem is that she has a naturally pretty ordinary diet, she eats no fruit (orange juice is the closest that she comes to this), few veggies (mushrooms, carrots, sweet corn, potatoes and parsnips is pretty much it) and loves sweets and cakes. All of this is the opposite to me, I eat everything, have a fairly healthy diet,

I'd say you were the ordinary one, personally. As TJ says, can't force it. Maybe do a cooking course together, with the intention of making normal food tastier so she doesnt miss the sweet stuff? A bit of interest, a bit of learning, additional confidence etc – all helps while working towards a different end.

"Sometimes you've just got to find what you like and let it kill you"

Yeah, I approve of the Kinkster ( Anyone who can rile the US womens movement as he did with his seminal feminist hymn "Get your biscuits in the oven and your buns in the bed" can have my vote any day ).

Other advice posted above while I was typing is very reasonable i.e. Diabetes UK local group and website as a source of information.

there is nothing concrete to suggest it is passed on generation to generation

Depends how solid you like your concrete. Newcastle family study a few years back ( :oops:) found families where non-diabetic mambers had early and irrevocable changes in the way they processed glucose, although those tests are not done clinically. Women who have diabetes in pregnancy usually go on to develop type 2 in later life, and whereas if none of your family have Type 2 your lifetime chance of developing is about 10%, if your parent/sibling/child has it the risk goes to 40% and increases with increasing numbers of relatives until if it is your identical twin who has the disease then the risk is well over 90%. Nevertheless, what you inherit in most cases is still probably not the full story and lifestyle certainly accelerates or retards the progress.

Hi you guys, thanks for your thoughts. As for how she knew it was coming, she had pregnancy diabetes with our 3rd bambino, they think she was undiagnosed with it for our second, hence him being 9 weeks early and she developing Rheumatoid Arthritis after it.

As for the "ordinary" diet, I meant that sardonically ! It is crap (her diet that is !)

I will get in touch with Diabetes UK, I just want to help, I agree completely with DickBarton, that she needs to pull herself together and as Chopper Reid said "harden the f*ck up", but she is in denial and in a bad place with this one. If you knew her like I do and see how she deals with the RA every day, it would probably be easier to understand just how unlike her, this attitude is, she is already beaten by it and she's just kicking off.

Thanks again groovers. It's Type II BTW and has been controlled well by diet in the past, but it (the change of diet) is what really gets her down. That and she is sh*tting herself about the future.

Sigh.

Thanks
S

It's Type II BTW and has been controlled well by diet in the past, but it (the change of diet) is what really gets her down. That and she is sh*tting herself about the future.

The change in diet will help the future, what she is scared of is going to come true if she doesn't change her diet, kidney, heart, eyes are all things we rely on and are very difficult to cope with when they fail.

Depends how solid you like your concrete. Newcastle family study a few years back ( :oops:) found families where non-diabetic mambers had early and irrevocable changes in the way they processed glucose, although those tests are not done clinically. Women who have diabetes in pregnancy usually go on to develop type 2 in later life, and whereas if none of your family have Type 2 your lifetime chance of developing is about 10%, if your parent/sibling/child has it the risk goes to 40% and increases with increasing numbers of relatives until if it is your identical twin who has the disease then the risk is well over 90%. Nevertheless, what you inherit in most cases is still probably not the full story and lifestyle certainly accelerates or retards the progress.

Was referring to Type 1 in my post, although the 'facts' you have posted are about as concrete as mud, nothing there that shows anything more than coincidence based on the percentages imho

although the 'facts' you have posted are about as concrete as mud, nothing there that shows anything more than coincidence based on the percentages imho

I've not read the literature, but a 40% increase in probability is more than coincidence?

Bit of a nightmare really.

Aggree with the diabetes uk stuff on here loads of advice on diet and exercise there.

I tell all my type 2's changes in their lifestyle will have more impact on their diabetes than anything i do. It really is as simple as eat less/walk more.

referral to a dietician may help. However to change her lifestyle she has to want to change.

Tell her to sort it out. Seriously.

The standard response to Type 2 diabetes seems to be "boo hoo" with a large helping of "I'll continue doing what caused me to get T2 diabetes", which is eventually followed by Insulin and further degeneration. It's a nightmare of a situation.

Personally I would go down the route of "this act causes consequence A, which leads to consequence B". That method convinces me – as an example, I couldn't give a stuff about the govt. telling me not to drink with their patronising ads, but the recent thread where people spoke about glycogen production being affected and REM sleep being interfered with put me off drink hugely.

Depending on where you live there should be good support for newly diagnosed Diabetic patients. I went through a series of meetings with dieticains, doctors, nurses and a surreal group workshop, but all of it helped cement what I needed to do and went some way to explain what Diabetes was all about and how I could help myself.

It's really is as simple as eat less / eat balanced and exercise more.

It's also important to understand the long term potential implications of not controlling sugar levels correcty, they are neither wanted or desirable. Controlled the implications can be avoided, uncontrolled your looking at blindness, limb amputations and organ failure.

I also bought books in the early days maybe that would help get the message across, that said you've got to want to, if she doesn't it's going to be tough.

Good luck.

Bit horrified by the insensitivity of some of this advice.

Reading between the lines, is your wife overweight, is that a contributing factor ? Being mean to her will make this worse, lots of complex self esteem issues going on probably, you need to build her confidence to make her think it is worth looking after herself.

Change of behaviour/lifestyle needed I reckon, harsh facts need to come from the doctor, you need to support her, distract her from sugar with some new hobbies, set yourself a sporting challenge you can do together etc.

You obviously care enough to want to help her, which is really sweet !

My advice comes from knowing & giving a toss about people with T2 diabetes. A lot are the equivalent of smokers who won't give up even after being diagnosed with cancer.

nothing there that shows anything more than coincidence based on the percentages imho

NOT coincidence, but could be either nature or nurture. Twin studies suggest that there is a significant element of genetics but I can't quote chapter and verse there because they were done after I left that particular branch of research. In Type 1 you almost certainly inherit a predisposition but need a trigger – probably viral. In the case of Type 2 there are probably a multiplicity of couses and diseases working under that banner and the percentages quoted only apply to high risk families. Some types have 100% inheritance but are related to mitochondrial DNA abnormalities and don't really count as Type 2.

Pandanus roots … dry it then grind into power then drink it like tea. (not processed and must be natural)

You can buy them from Chinese supermarket but only in leaf form (must be roots not leaf) so I am not sure where to find the roots. In the far east people use the pandanus leaf (boil the whole leaf to fragrant the rice) for cooking so it is a common plant.

Try it to see if that works but check your blood sugar before and after to compare.

🙂

Bullying somebody will not help change their behavior. Praise the good, ignore the bad. (just like Super Nanny says) I am trusting your wife is not simple minded, she knows the facts and what she has to do to be healthy. Support her don't attack her.

chewkw – Member
Pandanus roots … dry it then grind into power then drink it like tea. (not processed and must be natural)

You can buy them from Chinese supermarket but only in leaf form (must be roots not leaf) so I am not sure where to find the roots. In the far east people use the pandanus leaf (boil the whole leaf to fragrant the rice) for cooking so it is a common plant.

D'oh! Avoid the above as it is used for joint pain NOT for diabetic.

😳

A friend diagnosed with type 2 a couple of years ago has changed nothing about his diet but has gone for a one hour walk every evening ever since. He's a veggie so not much issue with input, just did as the Dr asked and moved more.

votchy – Member

It's Type II BTW and has been controlled well by diet in the past, but it (the change of diet) is what really gets her down. That and she is sh*tting herself about the future.

The change in diet will help the future, what she is scared of is going to come true if she doesn't change her diet, kidney, heart, eyes are all things we rely on and are very difficult to cope with when they fail.

Depends how solid you like your concrete. Newcastle family study a few years back ( :oops:) found families where non-diabetic mambers had early and irrevocable changes in the way they processed glucose, although those tests are not done clinically. Women who have diabetes in pregnancy usually go on to develop type 2 in later life, and whereas if none of your family have Type 2 your lifetime chance of developing is about 10%, if your parent/sibling/child has it the risk goes to 40% and increases with increasing numbers of relatives until if it is your identical twin who has the disease then the risk is well over 90%. Nevertheless, what you inherit in most cases is still probably not the full story and lifestyle certainly accelerates or retards the progress.

Was referring to Type 1 in my post, although the 'facts' you have posted are about as concrete as mud, nothing there that shows anything more than coincidence based on the percentages imho

Wrong, the risks of T2DM with familial history are very clear, as are the risks of T2DM following gestational diabetes – in fact, a woman who has had Gestational diabetes should be tested regualrly afterwrds due to the increased risk of T2DM, that's within national diabetes guidleines and is evidence based.

@ the OP, you mentioned RA as well as diabetes. There can be a connection between the two conditions, and there is asuggestion that controlling the diabetes would help with RA symptoms too. http://www.arthritistoday.org/conditions/other-conditions/more-conditions/diabetes-arthritis.php

Has your wife been screened for an underactive thyroid recently? Asking because that condition is also an autoimmune condition (as per RA can be), and if hypothyroidism is present then she'll struggle with weight loss.

Has she been started on any diabetes treatments, if so, what?

Regarding support groups etc, people either take to thse or don't, a good desription is that diabetes is a club that your wife hasn't chosen to join.

Also local education groups can be patchy in terms of availability, and whilst a NICE requirement some areas won't have DAFNE, DESMOND or Xpert up & running, but may run some local equivalent, which will be less researched in terms of outcomes.

chewkw – Member

chewkw – Member
Pandanus roots … dry it then grind into power then drink it like tea. (not processed and must be natural)

You can buy them from Chinese supermarket but only in leaf form (must be roots not leaf) so I am not sure where to find the roots. In the far east people use the pandanus leaf (boil the whole leaf to fragrant the rice) for cooking so it is a common plant.

D'oh! Avoid the above as it is used for joint pain NOT for diabetic.

I wouldn't worry, it's probably just as ineffective for controlling blood sugars as it is for joint pain. 😐

Wrong, the risks of T2DM with familial history are very clear

As I did some of the T2DM family research back in the day, I had an attack of natural british understatement when I came to rebuttal and maybe didn't put my views as clearly as you. Happy to agree with your views however

I also agree wholeheartedly with the rest of your comments as well. Welcome to the STW Diabetes Care group.

Thanks for your thoughts guys, there is no way however that me shouting at her and telling her to sort herself out is going to help, she is too raw for that. She knows what she is doing wrong and has done incredibly well in the past to control what she eats, she is not massively overweight, a bit, but she is 50 and has had 3 kids as well as rheumatoid arthritis for 15 years, so can't run or walk too far.

What I am really looking for is support in helping me help her and there has been plenty of that here, so thanks for that. I know that in part she has brought in on herself by her shite diet, she knows that too and hates the fact that she can't increase the good portion of her diet. I just want to keep her "up" she will, I know from past experience, sink into deep depression if I hassle and harangue her, its about slowly slowly catchee monkey.

Thanks for your thoughts, we both know how serious it all is, I guess that's why I am worried and she is desperate to put it right before it's too late.

S

On the NHS don't offer free nutritionist advice?

Ask your GP clinic to refer her to one!

Best of her luck with it and hope she takes up exercise.

Go to the doctor or get a shrink ?

+1 for the DAFNE/DESMOND courses.

While you're waiting for a place on a course(if available), your local diabetes group will help her to understand that it's not just her.
This book is a little deep, but looks into excercise in both Type I and II.
Being Type I, I haven't really followed Type II, but the Runsweet website has some interesting reading.

With regards to RA and it's associations with Diabetes – the 'link' is generally with type 1 diabetes, as they are both seen as auto-immune conditions. The same for thyroid disease.

Linking type 2 diabetes with families is a hard one – sure, some people may have a 'lower threshold' for glucose intolerance/DM, but unless they 'beat their glucose receptors senseless' with a lifetime of toffees, they'll never develop diabetes. It's quite amazing too, to see how many 'larger' families claim there is a genetic link to size/health, only to see them eating tonnes of rubbish, and boozing bucket loads together.

It's not that far fetched to say that alcohol and food abuse are far overtaking smoking as a leading cause of mortality/morbidity in this country!

Anyway, back to the OP – simply put, she should aim to control her weight, control her diet, and accept that if she doesn't take this condition seriously, she will chuff up her eyes, kidneys, heart, lose her toes->feet->legs, and horrendous ulcers on the limbs.
I work on a diabetes firm – we've found this approach is the only one that really drives home (some of the time)….

DrP

Brokensoul

Being Type I, I haven't really followed Type II, but the Runsweet website has some interesting reading

+1 for Runsweet.com, very useful resource for T1DM

@ the OP how overweight is your wife currently, and who is responsible for her diabetes care? According to circumstance she may be eligible for one of the newer Incretin treatments, which if you believe the drug company hype offer better glucose control, and possibly some positive effects on weight. The downside is that this is an injectable therapy, so all the needle/injection issues would need support & work if she doesn't like the idea of any injections, although TBH many T2DM patients will often progress onto insulin injections if unable to control their condition on oral therapy, diet & exercise. One consideration, insulin will often result in weight gain, vs the Incretin treatments that will generally be weight neutral.

Hmmm…sounds to me like you need to take charge of this a bit fella, you obviously love your Mrs to bits and know her best…what would motivate her?..I get really peed off with diabetic nurses who bang on about losing limbs etc…cos it ain't gonna happen to me…I'm gonna stay as fit and healthy as I can forever…I'm generally the most positive person but was miserable for a few days after diagnoses until I posted on here and got back on my bike.

Ideas would be get her swimming, get a tandem or more walking

Hide those veggies…soups, stews etc…any fruit in smoothies (watch the sugar though)

Does she want to give in to this or be strong and see her kids/grandkids grow up and have lives she plays a big part in?

There is no way she wants to chuck in the towel. I have to say, she has put the "F*ck you Diabetes" coat on and is getting seriously kick arse about it, which was just what I had hoped would happen.

She is demanding that I take her for an hour walk every day and make her porridge (which she absolutely hates) after nearly blowing chunks all over the kitchen forcing it down yesterday, sod me but today she came back for day two and PUT RASPBERRIES ON IT !! We have been together for 22 years and it is the FIRST PIECE OF FRUIT I HAVE EVER SEEN HER EAT !!!!!!! (except lime in her Barcardi and Diet Coke !!

She has been put on Metformin 500mg which she has taken before (apparently, I just thought it was one of the several million RA drugs she has been on over the past 15 years) As for injectibles, she has no probs with these as she injects Methotrexate weekly into her butt and Anti TNF weekly into her stomach, so she is tough as hell.

I honestly cannot believe her attitude since the first really BAD day, she has just got the fight in her that I have never seen her with this, she knows she has to get on top of it. She has set up a weight chart (she reckons she needs to lose 10kg – which she is determined to do) and if she can keep up the kick arse nature, she will do it. She is incredibly determined in everything in life, but has always completely folded about this in the past, so thats why I've been so worried.

Okay, so onwards and upwards. I'll drag her around the farm once a day and force feed her porridge, but the big question is what do we do when we go out ? That has always been her biggest issue, as she doesn't want to starve herself, but feels that when she is in the "good eating" mindset, she is an Exocet missile and cannot ever deviate. I don't think this is healthy (if you know what I mean) and she can surely have a night off occasionally or am I wrong and she is right. She (and I) love a drink (not too many, but probably too many to be the right amount), can she still have a gargle when we go out and about.

I want to somehow make this "new" life as bearable and realistic as possible for her. She has got it, will stick to what she needs to do (for the moment), will need dragging back online when she deviates and will need me for support (I hope) but this is long time change. I know it will help me, I mean I have given up the booze for Lent and have already lost 1.6kg for Gods sake !! Last time we took this seriously I went from 110kg to 84, I'm 90 now, I'll be bloody Damiano Cunego next !!!

Thanks guys, to all of you, even the Tough Love guys, it all helps. Things like this are a real pain and because she is such a private person, I can't really talk to my close friends about it, because she wants it kept to herself, distant friends like you guys are the best kind in this situation !!

Cheers
S

DrP – Member
With regards to RA and it's associations with Diabetes – the 'link' is generally with type 1 diabetes, as they are both seen as auto-immune conditions. The same for thyroid disease.

Thinking out loud, has the lady been looked at as having an autoimmune T1 diabetes, or has an assumption been made that due to age, history, & lifestyle she "must" have T2dm?

Working in children's diabetes we "assume" T1DM unless something in the history makes us think otherwise, in which case we screen for autoimmune markers, insulin levels, or in exceptionally rare cases genetics when a MODY type diabetes could be considered. Nothing to say that every overweight adult "must" be diagnosed with T2DM either.

So, an update, she is off the booze, eating all sorts of stuff I never thought I'd see her stuffing down her neck (blueberries, porridge etc) and has lost 3kg and is on target to get her weight right down. She's walking 30-60 mins everyday and I have been doing my bit also and have lost 6kg as well !

Thanks for all the advice guys, I can't believe the change. I guess the time was just right for her to finally hear it !

Thanks
Sean

Whoop!

Keep her way from choccie eggs this weekend and you're away!

Excellent news. I don't know you, but this made me happy.

Great news that your misses has turned her unhealthy lifestyle around, rest assured she will be able to have the occasional treat but make sure she steers clear of all those horrible artificial sweetners they can have terrible side effects ie for me canderel caused bad tachycardia.
Nothing wrong with the odd treat of one or two Thorntons chocs once in a blue moon but its like any good diet everything in moderation.
I can recommend a couple of books for reference and to help with issues that you may come across the better oner being Diabetes The Complete Guide by Dr Rowan Hillson recommended by Diabetes UK

The good news continues, Jules has lost 7kg+ to this point, I am down 10kg and we are both feeling fantastic. Thanks to everyone for their help and advice.

Happy trails

good stuff!