Why don't you ride trailquests ?

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Why don't you ride trailquests ?

188 posts & 108 voices | Started 11 months ago by MidlandTrailquestsGraham | Latest reply from simon1975

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MidlandTrailquestsGraham - Member

There's a bit of a discussion going on in MTQ at the moment about attracting new members and increasing entries at events.

I know that whenever trailquests get mentioned on STW there are people who like to sneer at them as if trailquesting is on a level with wearing a cardigan with buttons on the front or listening to Val Doonican.
It does make me wonder how many of those people could ride 50+km of mixed terrain in 3 hours while navigating and route planning though.

It seems bizarre to me that HONC can sell out all 1200 places within 2 hours or MM can sell out 2500 places within days, yet if there was a trailquest covering 100 square km of the Cotswolds, or with 30 Control Points to find on and around the Eastnor Estate, we'd get about 50 entries.

So why don't you ride trailquests ?
What is it in particular that doesn't appeal ?
What would you like to see changed to make you have a go ?

Posted 11 months ago #
hilldodger - Member

To be honest I hadn't heard of TQ until I saw your posts
I'm def TQ curious - I like maps & navigation, ride to see & enjoy the countryside so TQs, yeah why not, tell me more.......

Posted 11 months ago #
shindiggy - Member

Same here, Interested in doing some trail quest, got a link to a schedule of event or further information?

*Edit* Just clicked on the link in your post, reading now*

Posted 11 months ago #
ampthill - Member

I'm attracted by the idea in some ways.

I did one bike treasure hunt/orienteering event, which I enjoyed and i think wone, organisedby some friens. They were big in that scene (sophie Wood use to be Bowtell. I think she was national mixed national champion in one of the variations)

Any way cut along story short its the map. I rode a new area locally last weekend. It was all stop and look at the map stuff. Its just not as fun as following the arrows

I hate myself for saying that I'm still a fell walker and general outdoors person. But navigating on bike is a necassary evil not something I'd opt into

i admire your search for more support I hope you find it.

Posted 11 months ago #
oliverd1981 - Member

I'm cotemplating a mini trailquest using pubs as the control points (orientbeering?) also a trig point challenge. I don't know if there are any local clubs into that sort of thing...

Posted 11 months ago #
Rubber_Buccaneer - Member

You may enjoy the navigation aspect but for many it is a chore. A nice waymarked route leaves you free to enjoy the riding and if that route is at a trailcentre you can be pretty sure it will be fun too.

Posted 11 months ago #
uplink - Member

I do the Open5 races in the Winter, won't be doing any more though as my knee is well **** so can't run any more

may look at some trailquests

Posted 11 months ago #
Picto - Member

Did one years ago on Cannock Chase. It was fun as a one off but the navigating got in the way of a good ride for me.

Posted 11 months ago #
downgrade - Member

Have done a few races (No Fuss 10s etc) because I thought they would be exciting, fun (and they are!)

Don't think trailquests would be exciting or fun. Might be wrong but that's my honest answer.

Posted 11 months ago #
MidlandTrailquestsGraham - Member

OK, for those who don't know how it works, there are slight variations in format, but the most common one is;

Turn up at a village hall.
You will be given an A4 sized 12x8km section of 1:50k OS map with up to 36 Control Points marked on it.
You have as long as you want to plan a route between the CPs.
Go to the start marshal's desk and clock out.
You will now be given the CP values, so you might want to amend your route, or just set off anyway and improvise on the way round.
Keep watching the time. You've got 3 hours and there are penalties for getting back late.
Hand your scorecard to the finish marshal.
Hang around. Discuss your route with other people and see how your score compares.
Go home.

Posted 11 months ago #
esselgruntfuttock - Member

Did 10 or 11 Polaris's (Polari'i?) & umpteen TQ's, best finish was 90th O/A in the 1999 Summer Polaris, guess I just got sick of being crap.

Posted 11 months ago #
5thElefant - Member

MTB is motorsports without a motor for me. Trailquest strikes me as a rambler thing. So I guess I simply don't get it in the same way I don't get rambling.

Posted 11 months ago #
richpips - Member

To do a Trailquest you need to be able to read a map well.

Trailquests are not sociable events. You usually spend most of the event on your own.

So, you're on your own and you aren't very good with a map, how much fun is that?

Instead you can enter a variety of events which are waymarked, and you can ride round with your mates.

Back in the day when the Polaris was young, it attracted lots of riders, and sold out. There were very few other events that vied for riders, plus I guess that most riders back then had an outdoors (map reading) background.

Posted 11 months ago #
the-muffin-man - Member

Trailquests just aren't cool - its not the same as turning up with your latest bit of bling at a 24hr race, riding a few laps and then having a beer and BBQ! And most people struggle to find the way to the end of their road, never mind open country!

They require effort, thought and no hand-holding!

I used to do loads of them, and to me they gave a greater sense of achievement than any race when you knew you'd picked a good route and timed it to perfection.

Posted 11 months ago #
RestlessNative - Member

I'm useless at reading maps

Life is not a competition so I don't really care if other people can read maps and ride faster than me

Posted 11 months ago #
heihei - Member

I've only done one and loved it. Was then gutted that my local one (Shackleford) was cancelled due to lack of interest!

Posted 11 months ago #
richpips - Member

Oh, and one other thing.

(Not one of your events), but I went for a ride yesterday with a friend who is competing well in our local series to get a feel for an event's location.

The map geek might have revelled in route choice, and I'm sure there will be plenty, but in 4 hours riding, I didn't find a trail I would have chosen to have ridden.

Rubbish riding.

Posted 11 months ago #
oldagedpredator - Member

Don't we do this one quite regularly? Its probably the image of buffalo, beards and marins thats never quite gone away. There's also more / other organised mountain biking events now.

There are some popular leagues - Dark and White Summer seems to have pulled in around a 100 each one. Talking to the guys who organise them the last round of the winter series had around the 200 mark in entrants. They have though gone back to 6 events in stead of 8. Felt quite sorry for the guys who did NEMBO league at Blanchland and in Teesdale. Both only looked at having around 40-50 people. The guys had put a lot of effort into the Blanchland one, negotiating access to quite a lot of moorland tracks for the event. Hopefully they'll go again next year with the series.

The success of Dark and White in terms of number vs some of the other leagues could in part be down to location. Winter league has a fairly large catchment of potential riders from the towns and cities around the Peak. Its also a known quantitiy as an area. I suspect events in the South Pennines / West Pennines would also have a good level of attendance.

Lack of awareness is probably another reason for low numbers. Dark and White gets a few plugs from myself and others each year. The same doesnt seem to happen for NEMBOs (North East Mountain Biker Orienteering) and NYMBO (North Yorkshire Mountain Bike Orienteering. Never mind XCC (Cross Cumbria Cyclists) or Walton Chasers. Both of which have week day and weekend events in the next few months.

British Mountain Bike Orienteering's callender gives details of most of what's coming up.

Posted 11 months ago #
Garry_Lager - Member

I like them - probably my favourite MTB event. Been doing the Scottish ones in the borders this year - reading the map at the micro level to get the best route is a great challenge IMO.

However, I can see where they might struggle in appealing to folk, at least if the SMBO ones are representative - the one's I've done are over big areas for 3 hr events and that can be at the expense of fun, technical mountain biking on the singletrack. I've done a couple on my cross bike (out of necessity, MTB has been bolexed) and it's been a wash, maybe an advantage even. There's a lot of miles to cover.
There's actually a MBO rule saying 'no cutting through' which seems a bit odd to me and supports the sort of fire-road fest that tailquest detractors criticise it for.

Their used to be an event at Glentress run by PCC that was superb - the smaller map area meant you could take in loads of singletrack. Possibly it became too hard to stage at a trail centre though - potential for mishap with the one way trails.

Basically I think they're great, but understand why they might not be for everyone, and think the duration / size of map area makes a big difference to the type of riding you will do.

Posted 11 months ago #
boxelder - Member

There's one in Duddon Valley this sunday - great riding:
From Seathwaite

Posted 11 months ago #
mtbtomo - Member

Have done a trailquest and a mtb orienteering event recently. I know their different formats, but they still rely on navigation as a key element of the event.

The mtb orienteering event - felt the check points were too close together, it was difficult to go fast between points because the distances were so short and it was easy to miss a turning. Plus reading a map on the move is difficult.

The trail quest was better - did it as a pair which was a lot more sociable. The distances between points was further so you could plan your route and then get going without fear of zipping right past the check point for quite a distance. It seemed like a good way to explore an area I'd never ridden in and some of the trails we came across were good fun, and the terrain was varied. (that was near Gloucester/Stroud). Top marks to Midlands Trailquest for the after event sandwches, cake and coffee! I'd do one again. Plus the entry fee was way more reasonable than any marathon/enduro ride!

Whilst the navigation is the main differentiator, reducing the reliance on navigation might improve popularity? So essentially it becomes a big ride, checking off the points, but with multiple pre-marked routes to each point? Same points scoring but there is still the elemenr that requires riders to look at contours etc and plan the choose the quickest route?

Or have some trails marked to check points and others not. The unmarked route check points score a lot more points.

Posted 11 months ago #
Oggles - Member

I used to do them fairly frequently when I was younger, before I got into racing. The navigation I can handle fine - even if it does mean fitting a gopping map board to my bars! What I got tired with was that you;re effectively riding blind - sometimes ending up down really bad bridleways which are just a chore, and end up ruining a nice day out

E.g. thinking it would be a really good idea to go for that 30 pointer on top of Catbells and end up carrying the bike up what is effectively a scree

Posted 11 months ago #
njee20 - Member

The quality of the riding thing is definitely valid for me. They did one around the Surrey Hills, everyone was on the fireroads because that's the fastest. I'd far rather ride the singletrack, but then you're less competitive, so where's the fun?!

Marked route, ridden flat out, far more fun. You've said yourself Graham that you do quite a lot of road bits, that's not fun IMO!

Posted 11 months ago #
Surrounded By Zulus - Member

My thoughts are that if I want to involve map navigation in a route then I want to be doing it somewhere that I want to ride, seeing something that I want to see and enjoying the peace and quiet of the countryside alone or with a couple of good mates.

Posted 11 months ago #
brakes - Member

I actually prefer to get lost whilst out riding
finding out where you are is more fun than working out where you are

Posted 11 months ago #
boxelder - Member

E.g. thinking it would be a really good idea to go for that 30 pointer on top of Catbells and end up carrying the bike up what is effectively a scree

I think I might have organised that one?
You went the wrong way - should have been carving down the scree!

Posted 11 months ago #
djglover - Member

I've mocked them in the past I admit that. The concept of a navigational event is very appealing to me, I've orienteered in the past and Fell Run now.

However, I prefer the thrill of an against the clock / other people event, but where you are racing the other people.

Pootling around the cotswold lanes to find some checkpoints is something I'd associate with a school / care home trip day out TBH. Maybe thats a bit harsh but it just sounds too sedate...

Posted 11 months ago #
the-muffin-man - Member

Maybe thats a bit harsh but it just sounds too sedate...

But thats the thing with Trailquests - they can be what you want them to be. They can just add a competitive element to a ride, or be a flat-out blast.

Want to do the singletrack routes, then fine!
Want to take the road and be quicker, then fine!
Want to stop and have lunch at a pub then fine!

I should add that if you are doing it competitively then there's nothing sedate about Trailquests, especially if you are 5 miles from base and have only 15 minutes to get back within the time limit!

Trailquests can also get you to ride in areas you would never normally think of riding. I've ridden some great trails in places I would never normally have gone to.

Posted 11 months ago #
TheBrick - Member

I don't ride them because I'm not really into mass events.

As for other people I expect it's partly the map reading part, most people really struggle with maps and the idea of not using GPS e.t.c. probably put a lot of people off.

Posted 11 months ago #
oldagedpredator - Member

I wouldnt say events are sedate you need to be blisteringly quick on two or three hour events. In terms of giving more people a chance I think a 'pies league' running in parallel to the events might work - not too sure on which stats you'd use to find it but...

The person with the average or closest to average score gets 1000 points people either side of the average (or mean or mode is there a stats expert in the house) get a proportional of this figure. Its the same way some league scores are worked out now. The original idea I had was for a Northern Pies League where you'd need to do one event in each of the northern counties over a calender year and atleast one summer or one winter event. Eyes on the Pies spot prize for the most av score at each event.

Posted 11 months ago #
richpips - Member

But thats the thing with Trailquests - they can be what you want them to be. They can just add a competitive element to a ride, or be a flat-out blast.

Want to do the singletrack routes, then fine!
Want to take the road and be quicker, then fine!
Want to stop and have lunch at a pub then fine!

I should add that if you are doing it competitively then there's nothing sedate about Trailquests, especially if you are 5 miles from base and have only 15 minutes to get back within the time limit!

Well a TQ is advertised as a race.

Attracting new people (mountain bikers) to a TQ would rely on gnarr riding route choices (bonus points), beer stops (bonus points), pie stops (double bonus points) + fairly easy navigation.

That might sound flippant, but if you are wanting to attract new blood, maybe a parallel event with the emphasis on the riding/vibe rather than the nav would in time bring more interest to trailquests.

Posted 11 months ago #
Oggles - Member

I think I might have organised that one?
You went the wrong way - should have been carving down the scree!
Haha, excellent. It must be about 5/6 years ago now but it sticks out as my most memorable TQ moment.

That's kinda what I'm saying about riding blind though, you have no idea if one direction will be better than the other unless there's a bit of local knowledge involved. The descent was a hoot for sure, but if I had chance to do it again I would go east to west!

Posted 11 months ago #
5thElefant - Member

Not using a GPS? Really?

No wonder they're not popular.

Posted 11 months ago #
B.A.Nana - Member

Sorry, It does sound like the red socks brigade on bikes and you don't really alter that perception MTQGraham.
1) Turn up at village hall...........etc

Posted 11 months ago #
Oggles - Member

Well a TQ is advertised as a race.

But if it takes place on public bridleways I thought it wasn't allowed to be called a race...

Posted 11 months ago #