Idle musing atm between me and my partner (plus 2 year old) about moving to the med (italy or spain maybe)

where do you start? Anyone live abroad? goods/bads etc. Cost of living, house prices etc.

Would love to live near sierra cycling in spain

We live in Tenerife. We moved over here in 2006 when the kids were 9 and 11 years old.
The kids have taken to life here really well, they both attend the local Spanish school and are fluent in the lingo. that’s probably the best gift we could give them the the future I reckon.

Moving over was the easy bit, settling down and finding your feet takes a lot longer. I’m sure that it’s going to be the same where ever you choose to settle, but when the ex-pats start to give you the low down on what’s what, I’d recommend that you maybe believe about 10% of what they tell you as fact. We have met so many people over here who are so full of bullshit, they will claim to know how everything works but in reality know bugger all. There are also plenty of ex-pats who will actually trade on the pseudo knowledge and try to sell you their service. Some do know what they are doing, others don’t. Just beware!

Can’t speak much for the rest of Spain / Europe, but house prices have obviously fallen a fair bit here, but there are lots of places on the market, so plenty of bargains to be had if you have the money. Cost of living is a lot less than the UK, but then the average income is a lot less too, so it probably evens out somewhere along the way.

Daz.

How are your language skills? How will you make your living?

tj – dire and not sure yet but probably teachingor just tefl courses

There’re quite a lot of ex-pats on STW, including me. I’m in Madrid, I’ve been here for nearly 15 years now…

TJ’s first question is fairly irrelevant, you can always learn the lingo, but the second one is spot on: How will you make your living? Overall unemployment in Spain is 20%, it’s even higher in Andalucia, and that includes a fair number of highly qualified workers, with lots of skills, including English. What can you offer that will help you get a job?

Edit: that’s what you get for writing the post then getting caught up in a conversation before hitting “Post”, the OP replies to your question first…

I think moving to the Mediterranean countries at the moment would be difficult, unless you can get a transfer with the company you already work for.

There are still opportunities in the northern countries like Germany, and there are jobs available with multinational organisations that are English speaking. The only problem with that is you end up falling into the trap that I have of not learning the language properly and not really fitting in with the new culture.

Not been a TEFL teacher for many years, but AFAIK the market here (in Spain) is pretty saturated, work is available but you’d probably need experience and the certificate to have any guarantee of getting it. You’ll also need to put in a fairly high number of hours to make a decent living of it.

Rather than heading down that route I’d be looking into teaching at a proper school, there’s a massive demand for bilingual kids’ teaching at the moment, most of that demand is being filled by Spaniards but being a genuine British English teacher should give you an advantage. It would also subsidise child care for that two-year old, the Montessori schools (at least) round here are a lot cheaper for teachers’ offspring.

I think moving to the Mediterranean countries at the moment would be difficult

Unless you’re a tax inspector …

I spend 2 weeks per month living in Geneva. It’s expensive, and not easy but has benefits. Start to learn the language now – well before you go. And have a plan, know what you’ll be doing when you get there, both for work/income and the lifestyle you want. Lots of washed up ex-pats propping up bars with tales of ‘bad luck’ which were just self inflicted by poor decisions, no language skills and expecting others to deliver opportunities on a plate. The area you’re thinking of going to is an odd choice. Be more creative in your location – Croatia/Slovenia maybe?

Lots of washed up ex-pats propping up bars with tales of ‘bad luck’ which were just self inflicted by poor decisions, no language skills and expecting others to deliver opportunities on a plate.

+1 on this – saw loads of it in Egypt. There’s not such a defined ex-pat community in Madrid, so I’ve not bumped into it here, but I’d not be at all surprised if it were present in Benidorm etc.

Another thing to bear in mind is that a mortgage is the same abroad as it is in the UK, getting up early on a Monday to go to work is the same too, and nappies are expensive worldwide. If you’re trying to escape from this kind of mundane detail you need to be looking into lottery tickets, not heading to another country.

I’m coming across as a bit negative here, which doesn’t really reflect my feelings on living here. I like it, there are definitely a whole load of pluses – the summer sun, the kid-friendly attitude, etc. – and I have no plans at the moment to head back to the UK.

Agree ^^

Move because you’re going TO something positive not to get AWAY from something negative

I think it’s harder than you think to just pick a country and continue what you do there. Working cultures and even the whole economy are quite different in different countries.

If you are say a plumber or a chippie, then it’s reasonably straightforward as these businesses are mostly the same wherever you go apart from local regulations. If you are in business or IT or something then it can be completely different. For instance I can pick up IT work in Germany, Scandinavia, Switzerland or Belgium reasonably easily, but that kind of work hardly ever comes up in Italy, Spain or even France bar the odd one in Paris. Plus I’ve heard from a Brit who did work in IT in Italy for years that the way of doing business is completely alien, so it’s very hard to get ahead.

If you just want basic work in a tourist area though, that’s probably fairly easy.

FWIW I’m moving back to the UK on Sunday and I can’t flippin wait! As above though – don’t think that abroad is the land of milk and honey and all your problems will be fixed. They won’t be. If you want a new experience (with good and bad) and a bit of adventure, do it. If you think the UK is a sht hole and the next country is paradise, it’s not, and you will just end up hanging around with other expats trying to validate yourselves by banging on about how fab your new country is and how awful the UK is.. trust me on this.. 🙂

Us. We moved to France from the UK, near Lyon, but now nearer to Grenoble. Moved in Sept 2008. On paper, you might think it was easy for us as Mrs_Mugsy is French. However she had lived in UK for 13 years, never really lived in France as an independent adult, and had never worked in France. So we had family there, and language capabilities but it took a long time to work out all the systems operated. Not easy.

One of my highlights, of how grassroots it all was, was driving a 7.5 tonne truck with all our belongings from Sheffield to UK. A good adventure, and very proud we did it independently.

We originally thought it hinged around me finding work, as that would be the hardest bit. However after several years of trying, but possibly not that well targeted, we had a brain wave: Mrs_Mugsy was on maternity leave and due to go back to work, we decided she would look for a job in France and I would look after our son if needs be.

I walked into my boss’s office with nothing to lose (Geotechnical Engineering in a large multinational ‘multi-disciplinary engineering consultancy’) and said “I’m moving to France, either we find a way of me continuing, or I’m leaving.” We agreed on an outline pattern of 3 weeks working at home, 1 week in the UK office.

So nearly 3 years later: I’m french registered freelance, my sole client is my old company (IR35 does not apply in France) and in that time there’s been approx 4 months when I’ve not had any work. Over the last 12 months my work has shifted onto more international projects and although I’ve not had any working trips to the UK I’ve spent 5 months away from home in Africa.

We’ve been v lucky, but we made it work and we have had back up plans (i.e. I look after the kids) and my wife has guaranteed work.

In summary, you need not think outside the box, the dusty recesses of that box might suffice!

Much easier if you can either be posted abroad in current job, or new job knowing that you’ll get an overseas posting, even if it’s just for a short period.

Guess I got lucky. Changed jobs knowing that I’d be sent to the Netherlands for approx 1 year, about 6 months or so after starting. 4.5years later that (part of the) project ended. Then got temporary posting to Italy, a good handful of weeks in South America, then Germany for a couple of years (where “a couple” is so far about 8 years).

Working language is all English though.

If you are say a plumber or a chippie, then it’s reasonably straightforward as these businesses are mostly the same wherever you go apart from local regulations. If you are in business or IT or something then it can be completely different. For instance I can pick up IT work in Germany, Scandinavia, Switzerland or Belgium reasonably easily, but that kind of work hardly ever comes up in Italy, Spain or even France bar the odd one in Paris. Plus I’ve heard from a Brit who did work in IT in Italy for years that the way of doing business is completely alien, so it’s very hard to get ahead.

I’d have said it’s the other way round – if you’re a plumber or a chippie you’re stuffed, at least at the moment – there’s no work to be had in construction, and not speaking the language isn’t going to help at all. IT is much more international.

I’ve lived in Italy for the past 3 years.
With my Italian wife, who basically deals with the locals in a practical sense.
Nevertheless, this place, like every other one I’ve lived, is one where the cons pretty much balance the pros.

Some of the most obvious…
pros:
— decent food
— varied geography close by (an hour to uplift mtb, half an hour to beach)
— good weather
— lots to see — historical, cultural, natural
— slower pace of life
— individual people usually decent

cons:
— bureaucracy is a random nightmare
— screwing the customer is institutionalised
— when you walk into a shop, the check out lady looks at you like “what the **** do you want? Can’t you see I’m chatting to my friend?”
— shops, businesses and government offices closed at random times
— EVERYTHING is done with as little efficiency as possible
— life is expensive, and with the big exception of housing broadly comparable to London

This is in the industrial north, just outside of Bologna.
The cons really drive me insane, but then I’m pacified by a day of fishing and a plate of tagliatelle.

I work remotely for a London company, as does my wife, so thankfully don’t have the issue of employment to deal with. And if I did, I’d be running back to London.

if you’re a plumber or a chippie you’re stuffed, at least at the moment – there’s no work to be had in construction

I meant the way the business works – as in, if you are a tradesman you just find someone who needs the job doing, you do it and then they pay you – it’s fairly simple in most countries from what I’ve heard.

Got no idea about the current availability of work, or if locals are prepared to employ foreigners or not.

The cons really drive me insane, but then I’m pacified by a day of fishing and a plate of tagliatelle.

Sounds similar to the cons of living in Spain… once you finally get used to it (and it takes a looooooong time) it starts to feel normal, and stops bothering you. The weird bit is when you start going native – I now actually prefer the chaotic approach to life of the Spanish to the general sheep-like obedience to the law of the land you see in the UK.

There are days here when i think I am speaking a foreign language.

chaos sounds perfect – i hate routine and institutionalised approaches

southern spain – house prices, what would you get for say £150k?

Bump

My observations of moving to Spain – Cadiz province Andalucia.

What potdog said in the 2nd paragraph.

Work:
Easy place to start a business once you get a handle on how people work (or rather dont work). Lots of support to get into rural tourism and locals are keen to collaborate or spin deals for you.

Not a great place to move to to try and get a job.

pros:
low crime, great place to bring up kids, decent cheap food and low cost of living, more MTBing than you can shake a broken derraileur at (mountains/hills/plains) with little restrictions on where you can ride, unspoiled costa de la luz close by for surfing etc, good weather, generally relaxed pace of life, friendly people.

cons:

theyEye – Member
–bureaucracy is a random nightmare
— screwing the customer is institutionalised
— when you walk into a shop, the check out lady looks at you like “what the **** do you want? Can’t you see I’m chatting to my friend?”
— shops, businesses and government offices closed at random times
— EVERYTHING is done with as little efficiency as possible

And… widespread social and institutional financial corruption, summer heat, summer tourist influx, certain aspects of the costa del sol,

@cruz heckler – depends where, lost of deals at the moment. We didnt pay much more than that when we bought this place for the MTB business, although at the time it had no access from the road and it was derelict and full of birds.

If you want to be near a beach your likely looking at an apartment for that.