but if Steveo wants to keep the wallet in check, there’s possibly nothing to gain from changing frames.

Don’t be silly, wallet in check? This is STW.

I would agree that the incremental change to TCR geometry would be modest, unless he wants to drop the bars by up to 2cm (I have 2cm of spacers on my TCR). But the switch to a higher grade, lighter stiffer frame would be noticeable. Just not as noticeable as a really nice pair of wheels and a longer lower stem.

EDIT: looking at the OP’s bike, I’d definitely flip the stem and lose at least 1.5cm of spacers. then go for a ride on the drops and see how it feels. My guess is that it will feel pretty racy already. Then go wheel hunting for something about 1400g and some nice race tyres. If the OP can’t go lower on the bars, then forget TCR, it won’t add anything.

aye making his current bike not fit him with a nice long stem would be excellent 😉

the vast majority of carbon frames are made in Taiwan,

they’re not. Brant are you able to give any comparisons on the N2A vs my Giant Defy? stiffer, lighter, sharper, etc?

Email in profile if you would like some cover.

Thanks.

End of what? There’s certainly better aero frames out there than the Foil if that’s what you mean.

the vast majority of carbon frames are made in Taiwan,
they’re not.

Trek, specialized, giant, cannondale, Merida, I’d say that’s a majority right there!

Not all Trek. Must say I’d agree that by volume it’s where most come from, but Brant (should) know more than most on here!

The vast majority of carbon frames come from China.

Very few come from Taiwan.

Brant are you able to give any comparisons on the N2A vs my Giant Defy? stiffer, lighter, sharper, etc?

Possibly not terribly objectively 😉

Possibly not terribly objectively

But a good opportunity to sell its good points 🙂

There’s certainly some amusing “weights” quoted and we have fallen foul a couple of times by actually quoting “putting it on our scales and weighing it” weights, rather than something else.

There’s some quite funny content on this page about “weight”.

http://www.competitivecyclist.com/frame/2011-pinarello-dogma—2011-6394.html

Pinarello’s catalog indicates that the Dogma weighs 950g. This weight is before paint and “mechanization”, i.e. installation of BB shell, bottle bosses, etc. Once mechanized, a 53cm Dogma weighs 1210g.

This weight is before paint and “mechanization”,

Lol. I reckon I could make a carbon frame that’s under 400g*

* before addition of matrix, paint, mechanisation

This is what it looks like

thats taking the “non pedals quoted weight” a bit far 😉

i like the highly opinionated comments by some on here!

If it were me, i’d reccommend the storck scenero g2 for being a great all rounder if not a little racy in terms of geometry.

would i rate it as the best frame out there? course not! Lots of high end frames will ride great, be light and give you what you want.

The scenero rides better than many i’ve ridden but then i’ve not ridden all high end products out there.

thats taking the “non pedals quoted weight” a bit far

Because if they advertised their £3500 non-aero frame at 1250g people would laugh, and rightly so!

I have been quoted as saying that “bikes go as fast as you pedal them”.

I don’t ride a Planet X N2a, I ride a Planet X RT58. I love it. But I’m not a roadie.

Our proper roadies in the company ride RT57s, N2As or Mondos.

There’s some quite funny content on this page about “weight”.

I’d heard the rumours, but not seen it admitted in print! 😆

The Propel forgoes paint to keep the weight down, but I believe that the weight still includes ISP, carbon dropouts, BB insert etc… I guess paint could be viewed as structural.

As already mentioned above, all the high end bikes ride very well and just present different flavours of something very tasty. The OP has started with a fine bike and wants something that “feels” superfast. I’d start by adjusting the position.

My Giant Defy (Medium) came stock with a 100mm stem on a 54cm top tube. When flipped up with spacers, it would be a very relaxed position. I’m 5’10” and normal proportions, so switched to a 125mm flipped down stem, and with 0.5 cm of spacers, this mimics my racy (not really) TCR position. So, as I said before, adjust position first then if that isn’t doing it on the “superfast” front, think about something with even more aggressive geometry.

I think it is ultimately a question of fit, not frame.

Regards the OP and his point about changing bikes/frames I wouldnt bother.

Put 2 different road bikes(with the same wheels/bars etc)in a wind tunnel and I’d bet the difference would be marginal.

The biggest effect on a bikes speed is the very un-aerodynamic rider sat on top.

Probably best off just spending money on lighter and faster rolling wheels and tyres.

Because if they advertised their £3500 non-aero frame at 1250g people would laugh, and rightly so!

I have a Ex-British Cycling academy frame(90’s Dutch Concorde) I bought off ebay for about £50, Easton elite tubing which weigh 1300gms on my digital scales.

I can live with the extra weight for the money saved.

What the Op needs is a red bicycle as they are always the fastest.

The End.

is it alloy?

Defy’s are cracking bikes, but I prefer the TCR. On the flat it was hard to split the two. On climbs the TCR ‘felt’ better, I put that down to a lower front end. And I knew the chainstays on the Defy were longer, so that played on my mind.
Forgive the hyper technical report, both great bikes for the ‘punter racer’ A pro tour rider might say different…might even mater to them.

I noticed Blanco used both TCRs and Defy’s during the Paris – Roubaix which was nice.

on the aero wheels front, 4 weeks ago I put on my cosmics as my summer wheels (braccianos winter). Approx 0.7mph on average faster, used to average 17ish now late 18’s for 2-3 hour loops. This is in the flat, but windy new forest.

Whether I just pedal faster because of the lovely sound of them I have no idea, but Garmin tells me I’m quicker. Everything else is identical as I swap the tyres/cassette etc…

Propel is fastest…

http://www.winwithgiant.com/

If you want a great all rounder that you can convert to TT duties then go for a Cervelo S1 they just seem to encourage you to ride faster! And surprisingly comfortable too

on the aero wheels front, 4 weeks ago I put on my cosmics as my summer wheels (braccianos winter). Approx 0.7mph on average faster, used to average 17ish now late 18’s for 2-3 hour loops. This is in the flat, but windy new forest.

any change in the weather, i find 1-2mph just when it is a bit warmer, another 1-2mph from riding in the sun rather than at night…

It is a bit warmer….maybe it’s that then and not the wheels…

I’m buying a Giant then. They are clearly the best in the world 😉

I noticed Blanco used both TCRs and Defy’s during the Paris – Roubaix which was nice.

And the Defy came second overall – close but not won a major yet. The TCR and propel have, however. Not that it matters for the Masters race I’m missing as I type this 😉

Climbing on my Defy feels the same as the TCR. But as I said. they are both mine, and both set up the same. Wheelbase looks almost the same too when they are next to each other.

Has no one suggested a bike fit? 😀

But seriously, it’ll make more difference than a new bike.

I’ve just built up an N2a with full Ultegra and RS80 deep sections, very very pleased, very stiff but every ounce of effort you put in goes to propelling you forward. Most of the crit racing I do averages 26+mph and I feel a benefit from deep section wheels
Have ridden a TCR and yes it’s great great bike, but my reasoning was that with some of the idiots that have come to road racing in the past year I’ve seen more crashes in 4 months than I’d probably seen in 10yrs! So the moto don’t ride what I can’t afford to replace became important, replacement TCR frames are £1400 ish N2A £799.
Hopefully it won’t see tarmac any time soon but all 3 of the races I’ve done in the last 2 weeks have had crashes!

I’m building this up, basically a TCR Frame but a lot better price and finish

10 out of 10 in cycling weekly the other week too, apparently blew his strava times apart on it so quite excited to get it finished. Frameset retails at £1600 ish

Most people are posting with images of Defy “Advanced” with the mahoosive headtube, my Defy is just the “Composite” model. What are differences…..just so I’m on the same page….I got lost a while back 🙂

clubber
This weight is before paint and “mechanization”,

Lol. I reckon I could make a carbon frame that’s under 400g*

* before addition of matrix, paint, mechanisation

This is what it looks like

Brilliant 😆

On the subject of Cervelos, one of my LBS tried their hardest to get me to buy a P3 but I refused because the world and his goat ride them. Ended up with a mid range basic Argon which IS my fastest bike.

Oh and I gather the P5 is a bit of a porker on the scales.

Anyhoo back on topic. I think we’ve come to a conclusion that Steveo’s current frame is OK but there is scope for tweaking the geometry. Definitely worth trying a lower stem and also different lengths.

A bike fit might help but I’d also suggest riding with some old hand roadie mates and see if they spot anything obvious with your pedalling.

Stem now dropped 20mm & bars tilted a little forward than before and probably nearer level. Out on it tomorrow.

So what the difference in the Advanced to Composite, other than the shape?

davidtaylforth – Member

Has no one suggested a bike fit?

But seriously, it’ll make more difference than a new bike.

I did, and recommended a power test too.
There are only so many ways to buy speed, sooner or later you have to stand on the scales and look in the mirror….

Canyon aeroroad?

Speed can have many variables, I am quite a big bloke so the aeroroad would suit me, being quite a stiff frame. If I wanted allday speed i would probably flip the stem up, against wanting speed for an hour or 2.

don’t ride what I can’t afford to replace became important, replacement TCR frames are £1400 ish N2A £799.

Planet X have a good crash replacement policy too 😉

Ktm doesnt look much like a tcr to my untrained eye….