Stem now dropped 20mm & bars tilted a little forward than before and probably nearer level

Is the stem flipped as well? I think you will want a longer stem really.

The Advanced is lighter. The advanced SL is a totally different beast with integrated seat post and more lightness and rigidity. I test rode and test raced an Advanced, then bought the SL unridden.

To be honest, you’d feel more difference with a better set of wheels and some race tyres.

EDIT: And I placed my TCR and Defy up next to each other in the dining room tonight, and all contact points are in the same place and the wheelbase looks the same on our floor tiles. Photos won’t really show it, but the fit is identical. That’s because I need 2cm of spacers on my TCR (14.5 cm head tube) and only 0.5 on the Defy. So the true difference is 0.5 degrees of head tube angle. I can’t tell that from riding.

I’ve just built up an N2a with full Ultegra and RS80 deep sections, very very pleased, very stiff but every ounce of effort you put in goes to propelling you forward. Most of the crit racing I do averages 26+mph and I feel a benefit from deep section wheels

Really,most crit races I’ve done have been bunch affairs with a sprint. Not much need for aero in a bunch unless you are doing too much work. Stiffness might help.

Bike fit is probably the best idea so far. Tiny gains to be had with a new frame. Get one if you want but it won’t really make you faster. Something with internal routing hidden shifter cables on the bars in red would look fastest but generally it is about the rider.

Everyone says bike fit, you all presume that the original fit is wrong of course….getting fit probably make more difference to speed 🙂

Whether it’s actual benefit or ‘placebo’ benefit I’m putting in less watts for the same output of speed therefore fresher when I get to the sprint. Wheels seem to be the main factor as frames my 2 frames are similar stiffness
However it’s 50/50 breakaway/bunch sprint in the races I’ve done

A few years back I was struggling to get above a certain speed on a bike despite training really hard and doing a lot of miles. I changed the stem from a 120mm 0 degree stem to a 90mm +10 degree stem and my speed increased greatly.

Why – because the bike fitted properly. Dont always assume that low and long is the best position and fastest on a bike.

Also – want your bike to go faster – pedal more quickly.

Is the stem flipped as well? I think you will want a longer stem really.
The Advanced is lighter. The advanced SL is a totally different beast with integrated seat post and more lightness and rigidity. I test rode and test raced an Advanced, then bought the SL unridden.
To be honest, you’d feel more difference with a better set of wheels and some race tyres.
EDIT: And I placed my TCR and Defy up next to each other in the dining room tonight, and all contact points are in the same place and the wheelbase looks the same on our floor tiles. Photos won’t really show it, but the fit is identical. That’s because I need 2cm of spacers on my TCR (14.5 cm head tube) and only 0.5 on the Defy. So the true difference is 0.5 degrees of head tube angle. I can’t tell that from riding.

thanks for that clarification on the model differences. Wondering what mine weighs now! Any official weights anywhere, struggled to find published ones.

Can’t flip my stem as its already downward facing. I’ll see how I get on with the ride tomorrow to see how crippled I am 🙂

Wheels: a deep rim is only going to add more weight wouldn’t a lighter build be better in my position? Or we’re you just meaning a light pair full stop regardless of depth?

What kind of speeds are you currently managing?

SL is 200g lighter than the Advanced and I guess that the Advanced is about 200g lighter than the Composite (possibly more if you factor in seatpost differences). You can easily save 400g on a decent set of wheels. Aero or otherwise, choose on budget. But a set of Ksyrium Elites with nice Mavic tyres will shed a pound.

For stem, I think you will need to go a 10-15 mm longer. As you rotate your body over, the hands move out further (for the same angle at the shoulder). A good check is to put your hands on the drops and your elbows should be bent slightly. Put your hands on the hoods and the angle should be just over 90 degrees. Less than this and your stem is too short. Part of the Defy “comfort” label comes from the choice of the shorter stem, flipped up and spacers it comes supplied with. But a perfectly acceptable racey position is just as possible (which is why I bought mine). My saddle to bar drop is 8cm. The TCR will allow me to go to 10cm, but this is too much for me. If you find you are not riding on the drops for at least 25% of the time, the bars are probably too low or far away in my experience.

SL is 200g lighter than the Advanced and I guess that the Advanced is about 200g lighter than the Composite (possibly more if you factor in seatpost differences).

mmm Im thinking mine must be a bit more. From memory mine weighs 18lbs, which is a porka for a Small.

For stem, I think you will need to go a 10-15 mm longer. As you rotate your body over, the hands move out further (for the same angle at the shoulder). A good check is to put your hands on the drops and your elbows should be bent slightly. Put your hands on the hoods and the angle should be just over 90 degrees. Less than this and your stem is too short. Part of the Defy “comfort” label comes from the choice of the shorter stem, flipped up and spacers it comes supplied with. But a perfectly acceptable racey position is just as possible (which is why I bought mine). My saddle to bar drop is 8cm.

Yeah all that makes perfect sense. My arms are 90 deg on the hoods so to get just over the lowering of the bar and/or lengthening the stem may be the solution for the better racey position.
Still have 10mm to go if I need too but at a quick measure saddle to bar height is 85mm, the second spacer down is a 7mm one which I hadn’t noticed.

Ksyrium Elites look nice, Ive also considered these in the past to get a light setup.
http://www.justridingalong.com/custom-hand-built-wheel-sets/in-stock-handbuilt-wheels/american-classic-micro-58-and-205-road-hubs-laced-to-notubes-ztr-alpha-340-rims.html
The Mavic do look really nice with the oversized spokes though.

I agree with the above comments about bike fit. Long and low is not necessarily faster. I had a retul fit and my stem changed from a 100 -6 to a 80 +16. My saddle was also pushed back and raised a decent amount.

The result was my hips were much more upright on the saddle rather than tilted forward tt style.

Of course it doesn’t look anywhere as fast or cool, but I can now sustain longer in the saddle at a faster pace. No real change in top end or segment times.

Getting there. I think a 90mm stem looks a little short. What size is the bike and how tall are you. Arm position on the hoods is a good guide to fit, but you can go lower yet (if you want to try). I have slammed the stem, but found that the drops are too low and I don’t use them as much as if they are a little higher. So net speed is slower, because I’m on the hoods more..

Anyway, did it feel more racy 😉 ?

I think a 90mm stem looks a little short. What size is the bike and how tall are you.

Well the bike is a Small and I’m only 5’7″, plus my torso is a little shorter than my legs! (hobbit)

Report: Well went out for a spin last night as yes I had a positive experience on the whole. The lowering of the bars made a big difference to climbing ability enabling to get lower and over the front wheel better which aided power transfer, felt more connected to the bike.

On the flats the bars felt a little more racey as I was tucked down slightly, which I liked and was very comfortable with. Whether it was any faster or not is another matter.

However, I had rotated the bars a little to drop the hoods from their previous position (which I thought were a little too high from the start)and may have gone a degree or so too far. Out of the saddle pushing on the flats felt a little twitchy than before, maybe I’ve mistaken this for sharper handling! I’m pretty sure id have issues with reach on a longer stem, so I’ll stick with this for the time being.

Other than that it has been a positive experience so far.
I’m borrowing some tri-bars this evening for the next stage of keeping my wallet in check…….but cant stop looking at Mavic Ksyrium SLR 🙁

Set the bar angle by what feels comfortable on the drops, then move the brakes to suit (not vice versa, which is the norm). Untaping and moving the STI levers is pretty easy.

And it should be comfy on the drops, that’s what they are for!

I’ve got an N2A, and I love it. Great bike.