I’m rebuilding [1] the rear wheel on my AWOL. Alfine 11 to XM719 29er rim. I’ve run it through a couple of calculators and based on 2x lacing I’m getting 270mm (± a little bit) for both sides. Based on 601mm erd which I’m not totally confident of.

Am I doing it right ? Anyone bin there and dun that with a similar combo ? Do I need to go a touch shorter to allow for some stretch ?

Will be ordering DT spokes & nipples from Germany unless anyone has a better plan.

[1] The reason for the rebuild is because the “professional” [2] mechanic who built it used spokes that were much too long so they were sticking way past the head of the nipple (and forced the nipples onto the unthreaded section of spoke), he also built it 3x which puts too much of an angle on the nipple as it enters the rim. He built the front wheel too [3].

[2] “Professional” as in he’s paid to do this, a full time shop mechanic, with ~two decades in the trade. Previously worked for a minor pro road team.

[3] He used exactly the same length spokes for the front wheel, which has much smaller flanges, meaning the spokes were too short and only threaded about halfway into the nipple.

Sounds reasonable

Do you have the rim? I would measure first before ordering spokes from overseas.

http://miketechinfo.com/ERD-measuring.htm

I can’t help with the actual question but I always enjoy a post where there’s more footnotes than content!

matts – good point. I did know that, but was overlooking it.

FWIW, my Alfine has also been built 3x onto a 29er rim. I went 3x due to the additional mass of the rear hub.

That reminds me, I must rebuild my Alfine wheel which some idiot[1] built 3-cross.

I can’t help with the actual question but I always enjoy a post where there’s more footnotes than content!

The whole “footnote spawning more footnotes” thing is reminding me of when I tried to read Infinite Jest”. Horrible.

[1] Me

Was that under advice or your own logic?

“…due to the additional mass of the rear hub.“

Eh ?

The choice of 2x / 3x will be influenced by whether the rim has angled eyelets. XM719s don’t, so 3x is not a good idea, and it was quite obvious on the original build that the spokes ended up with a slight bend where they exit the nipple.

For my wheel http://www.wheelpro.co.uk calculates a spoke entry angle of 8.6° when laced 3x against a recommended angle of 6-7. Dropping to 2x makes it 7°.

how big does a hub flange need to be in order to mean 2x is a better idea for spoke angle?

got 132 bits at home ready to be made into wheels. Pretty sure 3 x is fine for 60mm PCD?

Was that under advice or your own logic?

I’m guessing you’re asking Daffy al but in my case it was neither, more a case of “always built 3-cross, I’ll build this 3-cross” and me not realising the flange size would make so much difference to the angle at the nipple. 3 spokes breaking at the end of the threaded bit put me right. TBF the wheel’s been in use for a few years but I’m starting to think I’m on borrowed time.

I can’t see the additional mass of the hub making any difference, most of the mass of the rider is going to be hanging off the spokes anyway.

If by PCD you mean spoke head/flange diameter then yeah for 3x

how big does a hub flange need to be in order to mean 2x is a better idea for spoke angle?

Dunno but an Alfine 8 is 95mm so you might be OK.

The choice of 2x / 3x will be influenced by whether the rim has angled eyelets. XM719s don’t, so 3x is not a good idea, and it was quite obvious on the original build that the spokes ended up with a slight bend where they exit the nipple.

For my wheel http://www.wheelpro.co.uk calculates a spoke entry angle of 8.6° when laced 3x against a recommended angle of 6-7. Dropping to 2x makes it 7°.

^^ This.

I meant that normally, most of the mass is split fairly evenly on the bike between front and rear, with the Alfine, much more weight is in the rear, so when trying to huck the bike, it’s much harder to get the rear off the ground – you tend to clatter things a little more. Hence why I thought a stronger wheel might be better.

But if you end up with a kink near the nipple it’s not stronger – see johnners experience.

Also, I will not be hucking anything, ever 😀

In this case though, having 3x won’t necessarily result in a stronger wheel. The spokes will get stressed at the nipple and be prone to failing.

Spoke length sounds about right.

Interesting…but, 20000km on my Di2 tends toward evidence of it being okay…at least for this rim/hub/spoke combo.

I’ve built wheels 2x to solve the same problem before, the rims have always given up long before the spokes do! 🙂

Unless a 2x build makes the rim weaker than a 3x? It’s not obvious why that would be the case though…