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I hate to tell you, but the speed limit there is 40
At the point the photo was taken, yes. The 30mph and 40mph zones are clear. I was referring to the point from the NSL sign. Apologies for the confusion.
There are lights down one side of the road. By this logic it's 30mph in the direction you're looking and 60mph coming the other way.Ideally there probably should be NSL repeaters on those lights. I'd chalk that one down to poor signage
I'd agree, but ever road I've seen like that would have 30 (or 40) signs where it passes houses. Very poorly signed road. Further back, where aracer linked, there are plenty of signs (and cameras!).
[i]The crossing is in a 40mph zone. All the signage is present and correct.[/i]
Oh, musta missed it with my Google streetview "driving"... Take back what I said then!
Clearly a built-up area, look at all those houses and factories.
Interestingly, the instructors on the speed awareness course drilled it home to *not* rely on the presence (or lack of) houses and factories as an indicator of being a built-up area.
There are NSL repeater signs on that section.
oh and if you continue down that road they remind you that you're in a NSL (ie not a 30 restricted road for the avoidance of doubt, because as pointed out numerous times such a sign indicates that the road is [b]not[/b] a 30 restricted road) https://goo.gl/maps/WjvxvRSp35S2
surely they explained this on the course?
They did but he didn’t understand it luckily the course isn’t pass or fail.
[quote=stilltortoise ]At the point the photo was taken, yes. The 30mph and 40mph zones are clear. I was referring to the point from the NSL sign. Apologies for the confusion.
So I've covered that too - the road from there is NSL (ie not 30 restricted) because of the NSL gateway sign and repeater signs (I'm just assuming there is more than one, CBA streetviewing down the road to check for another).
[quote=DezB ]I'd agree, but ever road I've seen like that would have 30 (or 40) signs where it passes houses. Very poorly signed road.
There seems to be one repeater in that 40 section, which I presume is sufficient according to the law - and they tend not to put out more than required. Though I note there are also several other points along there where the observant can tell it's not a 30 limit (I linked to one). (yeah I get you took back your comments, but it's worth making the point for the 40 section - the NSL section doesn't have houses so it's only the lights which would make you think it anything else, but the repeaters override that).
There are NSL repeater signs on that section.
Ah, I must've missed them, ta. There you go then.
They did but he didn’t understand it luckily the course isn’t pass or fail.
TBF, if it was anything like the course I did, this bit wasn't explained terribly well. I'm not surprised the OP left confused.
Anyway. Aside from the national speed limit in built-up areas being 30 and whether or not street lights of a particular but seemingly undefined height and spacing defines whether it's a built-up area or not: The NSL sign is posted on single- and dual-carriageways and means a 60/70 limit for cars. It will never mean "the NSL applies to this built-up area you're about to enter" simply because they'd use a (30) sign for that instead.
TL;DR - no way does (/) mean (30), ever.
No? What's 'no' for?
Sorry if it read as a curt reply, but it was short for, "no it isn't confusing"
[quote=Cougar ]TL;DR - no way does (/) mean (30), ever.
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The conclusion I'm drawing is that I [s]'ll take the bus instead[/s] shouldn't have been doing an indicated >60mph in a signed 50mph zone
😉
drive as fast as you can and try not to get caught?
Highways authorities are not allowed to place repeater signs in 30mph zones. The presence of [u]any[/u] repeater signs is a great clue that the limit is not 30mph.
I did not know that until today (or if I did, I'd long since forgotten)
Highways authorities are not allowed to place repeater signs in 30mph zones.
... unless there's no street lighting.
(Is that actually true? Source?)
stilltortoise - MemberHighways authorities are not allowed to place repeater signs in 30mph zones. The presence of any repeater signs is a great clue that the limit is not 30mph.
I did not know that until today (or if I did, I'd long since forgotten)
Oh FFS.
As you have already been told in this very thread, 30 repeaters do exist in areas without a system of street lighting.
Stay off the roads, keep under the bridge.
[url= https://www.google.co.uk/maps/ @52.3654695,-0.0686971,3a,75y,256.33h,86.34t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sqGfDioWKC8eVPD0qR5GK3A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656]30 repeaters[/url]
[img] 
[/img]
Indeed. I explained all this yesterday.
You do seem to be determined to be confused. It's really quite straight forward, despite the SAC guys helpfully muddying it for you.
Cougar - ModeratorIndeed. I explained all this yesterday.
Back of the queue, I was there on page 1. 😛
Yeah, but I did it betterer. (-:
It was a slightly different point, well written.
I've given myself bonus points for covering the road painted New Forest signs though.
Plus as I no longer drive, my driving is beyond criticism so I hereby claim the title of STW's one true driving God.
The irony of the situation suits this place well.
(Is that actually true? Source?)
Source was the Technical Support Officer from Staffordshire Safer Roads Partnership.
Indeed. I explained all this yesterday.
Sorry Cougar 😆 I appreciate your frustration. Yours was the best explanation that I now see correlates with "the truth".
For all those raging at your keyboards at my apparent stupidity, bear in mind from my perspective you're strangers on the internet with opinions. Some of those opinions correlate with fact, some don't. I came here to gauge whether other drivers have been tripped up by misunderstanding of advice given on speed awareness courses. Some of you admitted that it wasn't well explained on your SAC either. I feel reassured that it's not just me.
Wish I'd not bothered saying anything now 😥 😆
</waits for "me too" comments>
Source was the Technical Support Officer from Staffordshire Safer Roads Partnership.
What did they tell you about the special rules in the New Forest?
I came here to gauge whether other drivers have been tripped up by misunderstanding of advice given on speed awareness courses.
No.
As the one true driving God, I have never [s]been caught speeding[/s] broken the speed limit. 🙂
Source was the Technical Support Officer from Staffordshire Safer Roads Partnership.
... who was demonstrably wrong. (-:
Link from Staffs Safer Roads Partnership:
There are a number of unlit roads
where a 30 mph speed limit applies.
In these circumstances the traffic
authority must place 30 mph
repeater signs.
Buuuumpp!
I've got a speed awareness course tomorrow! Yippee! I just read through this thread to find out what sort of things to expect and it seems like idiots like what myself is will be the order of the day. Goodie.
Please note, I think I was innocent* of any crime, m'lud. But, however, I did go above the speed limit by a bit. There are many factors which make it annoying that this happened, but I won't go into them. I'll just take my "punishment" or is it "training"? like a man. 😀
.
*not really
The Book of Regulations 13:18
"Let him who hath understanding reckon the number of the speed, for it is a human number, its number is seventy or sixty on a single carriageway road with no streetlamps"
@DezB - I looked at it as refresher training when I did one a few years ago, it had been 35 years since I'd had any training, i.e. before I took my driving test. That's 35 years of developing bad habits 🙁 Obviously a 4 hour course isn't going to correct that overnight.
Thank you for that sensible post, whitestone 🙂 If the course helps me in any way, it can only be a good thing.
...this bump of this will just start the arguments about the National Speed Limit signs again.
🙂 I had the exact same confusion as the OP. When I attended a speed awareness course, they stated national speed limit is 30mph in built up areas with lamp posts, which would suggest anywhere of that description displaying an NSL sign...
Actually took me a long time and a bit of research to work out that what they were actually talking about is a default limit applied when no signs are present.
As far as the speed awareness course goes, I quite enjoyed it. You'll get a couple of people huffing and puffing like school children, refusing to take anything in, because they obviously know better. And there will be the ones you'll be amazed even had licences in the first place. But for the most part I think people come out a little more thoughtful about their driving. I did.
I did plan to ride there and sit through it in my cycling gear, but damaged ribs has put paid to that little scheme.
Drive there in cycle clothes, park elsewhere. Walk in.
😆 that'd be silly!
Drive there in cycle clothes, scream in to the car park at 50 mph, handbrake skid to a halt outside front door, abandon car. Walk in.
If only my car had a handbrake...
If only your car had a foot brake, this thread would not have been resurrected.
Bend over, take it like a Man.
If you think to 'take it like a man' means having to bend over, you've been misled by several officers.
If only your car had a foot brake
Ha! I wasn't in MY car
Do any of the 5 previous pages apply to white van man?
Think you're getting her up over nothing. Drive in Switzerland, the US, Germany, the speed limit is constantly changing. At least in the UK there's a speed limit and its applied in a fairly straightforward manner.
What about roads where each side is separated by a barrier, marked as NSL, but is only a single lane on each side? I think this is technically a dual-carriageway and a 70mph limit, uh, Your Honour.
What about roads where each side is separated by a barrier, marked as NSL, but is only a single lane on each side? I think this is technically a dual-carriageway and a 70mph limit, uh, Your Honour.
Correct.
@Flaperon - yes it's a dual carriageway. Dual is probably the wrong word really, "divided" would be better. As Martin says, if it's marked as NSL then it's 70mph limit. One of those edge cases where you have to apply several parts of the regulations.
5 pages confirms that the NSL sign is a bit confusing...
Back to the original post: I would suggest that the road you mentioned is incorrectly signposted. It should have had 60mph gateway signs & repeaters. As you pointed out, the NSL on that road would usually be 30moph unless otherwise stated. They were stating that the speed limit was the NSL (by using the NSL sign) which should be 30mph.
There should be no reason to use NSL repeaters, only gateway signs when exiting an area where NSL wasn't applied (40 in an urban, 50 in a rural etc.).
yes it’s a dual carriageway. Dual is probably the wrong word really, “divided” would be better.
Why? The "dual" refers to the number of separate carriageways (i.e. two, one going in each direction) not the number of lanes in each - you wouldn't refer to one with three lanes in each direction as a "trial carriageway"