I’ve just discovered the MySpace page of someone who owes me money, but went ‘missing’. Seems they’re still in London. Now, I was thinking of possibly creating a fictitious persona, and using that to lure them into revealing their whereabouts somehow (more sort of ‘let’s meet up in x bar’ sort of thing).

Now, given that there are all kinds of nonces and perverts using tinternets to ensnare impressionable youngsters/other middle-aged mountain bikers, I was wondering as to the legality of such actions. IE, I’d be attempting to find details under false pretences.

This person is an adult, and before you start, I have no untoward designs on them; I just want to try to get my money back. As it stands, I can’t even take them to court because I have no address to issue any summons or owt.

Considering companies employ debt collectors to track people down, would I be within my rights to use published information to find them? Or is the ‘false pretences’ thing an issue?

Any sensible advice on this would be greatly appreciated.

I was thinking of possibly creating a fictitious persona……I’d be attempting to find details under false pretences.

Effectively a “pretext” and therefore likely to be illegal.

Use ‘t interweb wisely and you can find pretty much anything about pretty much anyone without breaking any laws. There are companies which specialise in this sort of tracking and investigation, too!

Hmm. Thanks Flashy. I did wonder as to the legal ins and outs of it.

Of course, a ‘meeting’ could be set up, and I could ‘just happen’ to be at that same place at the same time…

Electoral Role would be one place to start, if I knew at first where to look. There are 32 boroughs in London!

Also, the person isn’t a British National, which kind of further complicates finding them. I doubt very much wether they’d register to vote, or even have a static telephone line in their name. Believe me, I’ve tried that avenue.

They’re an ‘arty’ type, and use MySpace etc to network. I was wondering how legal it would be to use a ‘persona’ to arrange a meeting, maybe at an art gallery/event they might attend. Would it be better if they volunteered the info freely, rather than me asking them directly?

IE, ‘You going to any shows soon?’, rather than ‘want to meet at X place on X date?’.

If they are a band/DJ or whatever and have a link to a personal website on there, you can use network utility on the Mac (or various online tools) to look up their real address etc

It might just be the details of who made the site though

I don’t see what laws you could be breaking myself. I don’t know enough to be sure but does deception not have obtain goods service or money by deception for it to be a crime?

Come off it Fred, it’s George Gillette, isn’t it? Let it go, walk away.

does deception not have obtain goods service or money by deception for it to be a crime?

This is the bit that concerns me. I would be trying to obtain money; my **** money! 😈

Let it go, walk away.

😆

No – you would be using the deception to track them down then getting your money legally.

You’d not be breaking any laws at all. I routinley phone people while being economical as to who I am and I work for the council.
We’re looking into how useful online searches of social networking sites could be. It’d be cheaper than Experian searches.
Think about it, it’s not illegal for an adult to chat with a youngster on the Internet. Only the purpose or intention of your contact can be illegal.
As long as there isn’t any injunctions etc. preventing you from contacting this person and you’re not seeking to establish their location to allow you to do something illegal, you’re perfectly within your rights to do so. If they tell you, are you supposed to not hear or see it?
Let’s say for instance, you manage to blag their credit card details but ultimatley you did this quite openely but did not use the information illegally, you’ve not broken any laws and they freely gave you the info.
Get stuck in. If they owe you money and you claim to be from Camelot with a fat cheque for them. When they fall for it and you turn up to collect rather than give cash, try and imagine your local nick taking the phone call. “Whaaa – Fred with the Padded Bra Safely person caught me out because I’ve been sneaky with not givng him his money back by sneaky about giving me more money!”
That wouldn’t work, would it?

Effinchafing, I’ve never denied being his dad – it’s just that between yourself, myself and your missus, things get a bit complicated. I thought we were over all this shit. You know we can talk about it anytime 🙂

I routnley phone people while being economical as to who I am and I work for the council.

Rosemary Jay, of the legal firm Pinsent Masons, said pretext calls could be illegal in certain circumstances.
She said: “It is illegal to obtain information through a pretext call if you pretend to be someone you’re not to get personal data that you know you have no right to.”

You need to tread carefully where pretext calling is concerned.

Hmm…

I’m just concerned that my attempts to recover my money may be scuppered by them claiming I’d done something illegal. Then disappearing again. TBH, I thought they’d left the country, but it seems they’re still here (blog entry is very recent).

Search of addresses via name on Google reveals nowt. As I’ve said; it’s doubtful they are registered at any address, have utility bills in their name, etc. And apparently the police will only get involved if a ‘crime’ has taken place. In this instance, there is no ‘crime’, as they’ve not so much deliberately tried to deceive me, rather they simply haven’t paid what they owed me. And only a court can prove that they do owe me owt. So it’s Catch 22. If I were to find them, I could issue them with a bill, in front of witnesses, then that would be legally binding. Apparently.

Oh where’s a bloody lawyer on here when you need one??

DD- I KNOW where you live….

He has every right to know where his debtor lives. Pretending to be a luscious blonde who owes them a favour but turnng out to be a 5″ 6′ angry out of pocket bloke will not get you into trouble for blagging their address, trust me.
I an employed to help bring about the payment of outstanding council tax, housing and council tax benefits. I’ve not claimed to be luscious or blonde but by the same token, I won’t tell them I’m fron the Court and Bailif team either.
Another example of obtaining info. without the info. giver knowing is if it’s clear why I’m phoning or sat opposite them is we’ll be going through income and expenditure to see why they can’t pay. I’ll chat about mortgage interest rates, they’ll tell me their on a high fixed rate thinking the council will accept a lower offer to the outstandng debt. Fail! The only reason I ask is so I know if a charging order or bankruptcy is doable.

Why not just get a friend (good looking) to do the talking through thier account? That way your not pretending to be anyone.

a friend (good looking)

Birds of a feather an’ all that…
…suggests he may not have a good looking friend 😐

No, you know how some folk surround themsleves with people uglier than themselves, to make themselves look good? That’s me, that is.

I am almost always alone. 😥

I surround myself with good looking girls,

I have tried that, Catflees, sadly the Magistrate din’t take too kindly to my antics.

The claims for the cost of long-term counselling has almost crippled me, financially. 🙁

drop me a mail?

No Nutt. You’re not a lawyer, however much you may claim to be.

Now, I was thinking of possibly creating a fictitious persona,

Oh the irony.

I have a good mental picture of what elf looks like.

Please don’t.

I was thinking of possibly creating a fictitious persona

something tells me you are going to be a natural at this

Elfinsafety I was thinking of possibly creating a fictitious person

allthepies Oh the irony

Junkyard something tells me you are going to be a natural at this

Chickperooo!

Haven’t read all the above so apologies if this has been posted before but if you have a name then it’s not especially difficult to track someone down through the internet. For example, the below site may well be of use to Elfinsafety. Just don’t go doing something illegal with whatever information you glean!

http://www.192.com

Where we’re goin we don’t need no damn laws

Rosemary Jay, of the legal firm Pinsent Masons, said pretext calls could be illegal in certain circumstances.
She said: “It is illegal to obtain information through a pretext call if you pretend to be someone you’re not to get personal data that you know you have no right to.”

I doubt that someone’s address counts as that. If you were doing it to get their dob, mother’s maiden name, medical history, etc, that’d be different.

I’d go ahead and do it – or instead of the fit blonde method, just make if a sound like you’re interested in whatever his line of business is – money talks afterall.

I wouldn’t bother. What are you going to do when they turn up in a pub? They can just walk off, you’ve gained nothing.

Best bet, if you want to do something, is to threaten to embarrass them. Find their facebook, save their friends list, and then contact the guy/girl saying if you don’t pay up then you’ll contact their friends/family and let them know how he’s/she’s ripped you off. Most people who owe people money tend to hide this from their closest friends/family – usually it’s more of a case that they’re skint, and bury their heads in the sand, rather than trying to deceive/steal from anyone. You don’t have to actually go through with the threat, but it should cause a reaction.

If that doesn’t work, then depending on the amount owed life is too short for conflict IMO – is often easier just to earn money elsewhere and write off the debt rather than chase after lost money.

Dunno about the legalities of finding where they live, but I’d be seriously considering what your motives are. You think if you turn up and confront them they’re just going to pay up? They didn’t last time, what’s changed? You sure this is about the money?

If there’s a possibility that this could end in a confrontation, (and if that’s the real reason for all of this) then are you certain that’s what you need?

I wouldn’t bother. What are you going to do when they turn up in a pub? They can just walk off, you’ve gained nothing.

Serve them with the bill, in front of witnesses, and record the whole thing. Then that’s proof that I’ve given them the bill, and that they’ve seen it. Then, I can issue legal proceedings against them. Because if they then don’t pay, it’s deliberate fraud. They’re an EU national, so I think they can be chased in their home country too. i have their native country home address.

The ‘threat’ idea is just silly, sorry.

Would appreciate some proper legal advice though if poss…

How much? how long ago?

Enough, and not that long ago (3 years).

The legal process of chasing someone all the way through courts will cost you at the minimum £150 (that’s if you file all the paperwork yourself, it’s not difficult). But may cost a lot more, and you may find that the settlement isn’t a lump sum, or that you might need to end up back in court to chase it again.

Not saying you shouldn’t go for it though. Just bear in mind the realities.

Mm, cheers, Nickc. I’m assuming I can claim back any costs?

My preferred method is marching the git to a cash machine, and getting it out of them that way (it’s a low enough amount to withdraw in a day). I was hoping to stay within the law, mind.

Might just leave it tbh. it pisses me off, but worse things happen at sea I spose. Ho hum. 🙁

Elfin: unless the guy/girl is local and has assets then court proceedings are a waste of time. If they’re not local they can get the case transferred to the court nearest them. This means you’ll have to travel halfway across the country just to fight it. They might not even turn up, and even if you win, they probably won’t pay up.

After judgement you can call in the bailiffs for an extra fee but they won’t let them in, and you’ll get nothing in return and be even more out of pocket – at most they’ll get a CCJ against their credit rating, but this only lasts for 2-3 years – at which point it will get wiped clean.

Up to you but personally I’d take the approach I stated earlier – costs nothing, and has worked for me in the past.