Can Europe really cope with the cost…No ?

The ideal solution would be to turn the boats back has a migrant boat ever been returned to its original sailing point if so what happened to that boat and its passengers ?

Thoughts ?

http://unhcr.org.au/unhcr/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=299:new-qexcisionq-law-does-not-relieve-australia-of-its-responsibilities-towards-asylum-seekers-unhcr&catid=35:news-a-media&Itemid=63

See what the UNHCR has to say about it.

If somebody is seeking asylum returning them to the place they were running from has a lot of issues.

Im guessing it’s mostly covered in here
http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/migrants-from-africa-what-to-do

The ideal solution would be to turn the boats back has a migrant boat ever been returned to its original sailing point if so what happened to that boat and its passengers ?

How can we know? Whats the alternative, airlift/ship millions from Syria and elsewhere to our shores and integrate them in our society? Thought Nige came out with a sensible solution.

I would guess the average migrant doesn’t really want to go to Naura Papua New Guinea as there’s nothing there for them ! Hence why they want to go to Australia/Europe

Correct me iff I’m wrong but I think theses people getting the boats pay good money to the traffickers to get them over the water,men women and children just like us,they must be desparate,I can imagine they are,I feel sorry for any family having to flee their home,it’s happening in Britain to the Christian people at the moment…is it not?

Whats the general view of the migrants on boats ?

That they must be escaping a pretty horrific life and some compassion is probably needed rather than telling them to turn their boats around and deal with their problems where they left.

From above or below the waterline?

We’d be better off using political / financial / military influence to sort out some stability in their home countries. Most appear to be persecuted minorities and who can blame them for seeking a better life?

Give them all the help they need, open up a legal entry system into Europe. Support and aid countries of origin to become more stable.

I feel sorry for any family having to flee their home,it’s happening in Britain to the Christian people at the moment…is it not?

Where would they go ?

Hopefully there is room under the bridge for them all

What nic said and

That they must be escaping a pretty horrific life and some compassion is probably needed rather than telling them to turn their boats around and deal with their problems where they left.

THIS

There but for the grace of God do I or my kids ever need to do this

we could also spread out the wealth if the west so they are not so shit poor/starving/desperate that they will risk death to get here.

The easy answer is sort out Libya, the hard answer is how? Possibly try and use NATO/UN as peace keepers, but I dunno if that would work. Destroying ISIS would also be a good start, but again not so simple in practice.

Give them all the help they need, open up a legal entry system into Europe. Support and aid countries of origin to become more stable.

Obviously the situation is totally appalling, but imagine if we put a footbridge from N Africa into the heart of Europe….how many would walk over it? Do you have any idea of the numbers involved if we opened up such a route? It would completely destabilise the whole of Europe.

No…we have to turn them around and do our best to help them help themselves.

No…we have to turn them around and do our best to help them help themselves. be completely heartless

If UKIP suddenly became an aggressive force and went around killing British people who did not agree with them, were not the same colour, were not the same religion etc as them and you were one of the targeted groups would you not want your neighbours to show you a bit of care until the trouble blows over?

Unfitgeezer I don’t really know where they would go,I would like to think that we could all get on and help each other,but that’s never going to happen.

If UKIP suddenly became an aggressive force and went around killing British people who did not agree with them, were not the same colour, were not the same religion etc as them and you were one of the targeted groups would you not want your neighbours to show you a bit of care until the trouble blows over?

So simplistic…..particularly liked the ‘until it blows over’ bit!

would you not want your neighbours to show you a bit of care until the trouble blows over?

But we aren’t their neighbours. Many of the migrants are from sub Saharan Africa. There are dozens of safe countries closer than here. Many of them are economic migrants.

If there was an open door to Europe many millions of 3rd world people would come here. How many is too many?

So so we allow the ones with enough money to pay the traffickers to come over but not the poorer ones? Maybe build camps in Eastern Europe somewhere for them – funded by the EU rather than putting pressure on the countries where they arrive.

Maybe build camps in Eastern Europe somewhere for them

I’m sure the Eastern European countries would welcome your suggestion….they hate black people! 😯

I would counter that your view is just as, if not more, simplistic. “We have to do our best to help them help themselves” – these people have practically nothing and aren’t able to stand up to what is going on around them. They have no money, no weapons, no support. Telling them to deal with the problem themselves with the help of a few quid from us is cold naivety that will not solve the problem quickly enough to save people’s lives.

If, in the short term until a better solution is found, the answer is to let people come to Europe to escape being killed then surely that is better than saying “we can’t cope with you lot”. There will be a long term solution that doesn’t involve migration to Europe but it won’t save lives now.

Besides, Europe isn’t even facing the majority of the problem-

http://blogs.redcross.org.uk/refugeesservices/2015/04/extreme-flood-alert-are-we-awash-with-refugees/

1% of the world’s refugees head to the UK, 80% to countries bordering the source nation. There’s room for them. Remember that an asylum seeker can’t work, they aren’t “stealing” your job Rockape. It’s probably much cheaper to put them up than have a military solution.

If somebody is seeking asylum returning them to the place they were running from has a lot of issues.

Not necessarily issues which entitle them to asylum. There are billions of people who live in very difficult economic conditions to whom Europe is a far better place to live. However Europe cannot take them all.

The vast majority of these immigrants do not come from the country of departure, they have travelled large distances across many countries in order to attempt to enter Europe.

I would change the law such that you can only claim asylum from abroad.

I’ve posted it before but these Europe or Die pieces from Vice news are worth watching. A few here, there is a series

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opbSFGlAefQ[/video]

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmqOlxNQABI[/video]

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aBCsCWEWYY[/video]

@munro the UK is spending $700m supporting Syrian refugees.

So so we allow the ones with enough money to pay the traffickers to come over but not the poorer ones?

Here’s a simplistic suggestion….we send gunboats to sink all boats identified as being used by traffickers before they can use them. We continue to patrol North Africa to ensure no boats leave their shores. At the same time we send troops to secure a large area 100 sq miles and send in aid to this area to feed and protect them…..until the situation blows over?

@munro the UK is spending $700m supporting Syrian refugees.

And? Is that helping the situation in Syria drastically, or do people still need to escape?

Maybe start by writing off the ludicrous IMF debts etc.

Then start looking at helping with infratructure projects instead of sending endless charity, lets help these countries to help themselves.
stop all the European farming protection and help the farmers to get a decent return for their products.

But nothing will happen because the EU is an incompetent waste of time and has never done anything to help anyone.

Not necessarily issues which entitle them to asylum. There are billions of people who live in very difficult economic conditions to whom Europe is a far better place to live. However Europe cannot take them all.

Very true but as people are rightly pointing out to the Australian government you can’t make that assessment on a sinking ship or in a 15 minute interview on board a customs or navy ship. Simply returning people you find in the water is not right and not legal under the UN rules (again see what is going on in Australia)

It’s right that the EU cannot take all those that wish to come, but as some of the richest nations on the planet there is a role to play in helping others, be that in stabalising their homes or helping them find somewhere to settle. The Europeans set off and deposited themselves all over the globe and proceeded to screw up great chunks of it building empires now a lot of that is coming home.

We complain that british people are too unmotivated and lazy… So maybe an injection of people so damn motivated that they’ll face a 1/20 risk of death to flee their homes and go to a place they’ve never seen to seek a better life, would a good thing. Just a thought like. No idea what it’d take to get me to do that, something sufficiently bloody awful that a bit of a hand would be welcome though.

jambalaya – Member

@munro the UK is spending $700m supporting Syrian refugees.

Which is a lot less than we nearly spent bombing syria.

I feel sorry for any family having to flee their home,it’s happening in Britain to the Christian people at the moment…is it not?

Eh? What’s happening?

Just popping this one out there…. (Edit NSFW, translation available)
[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wMd0tkSVu0[/video]

It’s a huge conundrum – the more you save, the more word gets back and others are encouraged to try. No human can stand by and watch another suffer or even drown and these are ordinary people who are so desperate that they are willing to risk their lives. I’m surprised to read that in the latest round of discussions it was agreed that boats would be destroyed; I’d have thought that was already done every time a boat appeared in the open sea once the refugees had been removed.

We are to blame for having destroyed the status quo in countries like Libya, Iraq and Syria. Distasteful though those regimes were, we should have allowed them to run their course in the hope of encouraging a more democratic successor. It can be done; look at Rwanda, which is now reckoned to be one of the best administered, least corrupt countries in Africa. Okay, it’s a Police state but it is working.

Which is a lot less than we nearly spent bombing syria.

I think our miliary spending in Syria and Iraq against ISIS is a fraction of $700m

@mike I posted the amount to demonstrate that the UK is very a significant contribution.

The reality is financial considerations are relevant. Italy was spending 110m euros on the prior rescue operation which they felt was just encouraging more immigrants, also the other EU countries would not contribute so they stopped it. Then there are the costs of the migrants, if you think each one could cost 100,000 euros in terms of support over 5 years each 1,000 people cost 100 million and if we take the UNs figure of 1 million that’s a cost of 100 billion. There is no appetite in the EU to take this number of people or pay that sort of bill.

There is no appetite in the EU to take this number of people or pay that sort of bill.

So what do you suggest as an alternative? Sink them? Return them? Deport them? Fix Syria?

Rescue them, drop them off where they set sail from and keep the boat.

To be an asylum seeker you have to claim it in the first country you arrive in. In the vast majority of cases Europe is not the first country, so they are economic migrants trying to enter illegally.

We shold follow TOny Abbotts advice. That seems to have worked well

We shold follow TOny Abbotts advice. That seems to have worked well

Has it?
A complete press blackout and zero comment on anything that has happened? Violation of UN charters and agreements on refugees, returning people without proper assessment (based on the info that has leaked out) how about suppressing any kind of investigation into mistreatment of migrants and refugees on grounds of national security?

Edit.. He is also a triathlete

for me the fundamental question we should ask ourselves is what would we do to get our family, our children, our wifes and partners, our parents to somewhere safe if we were ever in their position.

Think about it, consider your town and city is bombed or people are being shot/killed? Your family is both starving and dying. You are in real danger? And nobody can help locally.

Before you try and solve the problem, think about it. How would you want somebody to treat you if the roles were reversed?

We are to blame for having destroyed the status quo in countries like Libya, Iraq and Syria.

How exactly is Syria our fault. As far as I remember parliament voted not to get involved in military action in Syria. The logic seems to be that because of the Iraq war we are responsible for the subsequent Iraq govt failures. So are we to blame whether or not we take military action?

Where is the evidence that this is the case for the majority of the migrants.The vast majority are from sub saharan africa. There are plenty of safe countries alot closer than Europe if they are genuinly in fear of their lives.

Thats rather simplistic ti-pin-man

a great many of the migrants are not refugees/asylum seekers, those that are there is a legal duty to protect, but economic migration (ie. those seeking a better life, but not under any direct or immediate threat at home) is surely different both legally and morally.

It’s difficult as mentioned Globalti the more save the more that want to come. At the same time they and their are nothing more than slaves to people smugglers and loan sharks. Their family will often take out loans that never end to get a child out of the country. The people smugglers give them credit or kidnap to get even more money from their family. Any credit is again never ending and they will be exploited where ever they may end up.
I think the honest answer is to intercept the boats before they land. Take the people back to the country of departure, sink the boat and sentence the crew to long prison terms. In the country of departure a UN run camp should process the refugees with thorough checks, pressure their home country governments and police forces to come down tough on the money lenders again giving tough sentences to those who profit out people smuggling. Refugees with genuine need of assistance would then be provided safe haven in a suitable country.