Viewing 40 posts - 41 through 80 (of 156 total)
  • Whats the general view of the migrants on boats ?
  • yunki
    Free Member

    they look very nice, but I don’t think I could eat a whole one

    munrobiker
    Free Member

    There is no appetite in the EU to take this number of people or pay that sort of bill.

    There is no appetite from the right to take this number of people or pay that bill. People with compassion do have that appetite.

    Chrismac- The vast majority (80%) do stay in their neighbouring countries (see the link I posted earlier from the Red Cross). But some of these countries aren’t safe either, some may have links to Europe already or it’s the easiest way out for a certain ethnic/religious group. There’s a good comparison of what would happen if the UK was subject to this- a lot of people would got to Australia or Canada, not France. Because they have ties there.

    Also, where’s the evidence that there are so many economic migrants on the boats? A quick google doesn’t throw anything up, or are you and jambalaya simply lumping everyone together in order to support your views?

    ninfan
    Free Member

    In the country of departure a UN run camp should process the refugees with thorough checks

    The more I read on the issues, the more I am convinced that this is the only way – the only acceptable method to achieve asylum status has to be refugee camps at the first neutral point of call, and we should only accept and rehome from there – anyone showing up elsewhere has to be sent back to there for processing, otherwise the most needy will lose out to those who make the journey, and the whole system collapses under illegal trafficking and gaming of the system (eg turning up at heathrow without paperwork so they cannot be returned)

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    P-Jay
    Free Member

    Can Europe afford them all? Seriously, we live in one of the most affluent parts of the globe, forget about worrying about redundancy or the fact the house you own hasn’t ‘earned’ you 5 figures this year for doing jack-shit – Compared to the places most of the poor people come from we have more of everything by such a huge margin it’s frankly obscene to suggest we can’t afford to feed, cloth and home them.

    Wanting to risk their lives and leave everything behind puts them head and shoulders above the level of drive of most Europeans, but of course we brand them lazy and only here for hand-outs and the promise of free everything.

    Our Brit) big issue with it I think is the fact that, most of our European cousins seem to do their very hardest to pass them along the line, they get to Italy or Spain or France and they push them further west until they get to us – it gets to the point when the French are selling the idea of the UK as the Garden of Eden and in turn we’re pushing out propaganda about how shit it is here – I suppose we could follow suit, tell them all Ireland is the place to be and force them all into internment camps in Holyhead or Pembroke Dock

    unfitgeezer
    Free Member

    P-Jay

    How many are you willing to put up in your house then ?

    lazy and only here for hand-outs and the promise of free everything.

    sounds about right then…for some of them…

    mikewsmith
    Free Member

    lazy and only here for hand-outs and the promise of free everything.

    sounds about right then…for some of them the people born in the UK…
    [/quote]
    FIFY

    How do you propose to pick out the real claimants while turning their boat around?

    ahwiles
    Free Member

    my view is that we need to start building the infrastructure needed for the extra 20million people that will arrive in the next 50 years.

    nickc
    Full Member

    Obviously the situation is totally appalling, but imagine if we put a footbridge from N Africa into the heart of Europe….how many would walk over it? Do you have any idea of the numbers involved if we opened up such a route? It would completely destabilise the whole of Europe.

    Who said they have to end up in Europe?

    There were something like 1.5million vietnamese “boat people” resettled in the 70-90s, the US took nearly half million and Aus and Canada took 100’s thousands

    What’s changed between then and now, surely we’re richer than we were then (because capitalism) but we’ve become less compassionate?

    jambalaya
    Free Member

    @mike 🙂 safe for work with headphones, I am good with one in one out BTW ! Its not a matter of the immigrants taking jobs it’s the cost of supporting them, the longer they don’t take a job the longer they rely on the state fully or partially. Remember that stat posted on STW which said you must earn circa £340k to pay into the state what you’ll get out.

    mikewsmith
    Free Member

    Yep, but rather than saying no what would you do instead while protecting those seeking asylum? How can you police and protect the entire med coast line to stop people leaving?

    craigxxl
    Free Member

    You don’t protect the Med coast. You patrol coasts near to where the boats are leaving such as Libya.

    mogrim
    Full Member

    a great many of the migrants are not refugees/asylum seekers, those that are there is a legal duty to protect, but economic migration (ie. those seeking a better life, but not under any direct or immediate threat at home) is surely different both legally and morally.

    Legally, yes. Morally? I’m not so sure. When you’re living in a small rural village with no running water or electricity and the risk of famine ever present – you can say they’re “economic migrants” if it makes you feel better about locking them out, but don’t try and pretend it’s morally correct.

    mikewsmith
    Free Member

    You don’t protect the Med coast. You patrol coasts near to where the boats are leaving such as Libya.

    Take a look at the med coastline from a non insular european point of view, have you seen the length of the Libyan coast line?

    chewkw
    Free Member

    Whats the general view of the migrants on boats ?

    My view is that majority can survive in their countries because they are not exactly those that are fighting the govt/rebel aren’t they?

    I repeat: Majority are NOT persecuted in their countries. Even if the terrorists/rebels take over they are Not going to be killed because they are not fighters.

    Majority are economic migrants that jump the queue or force their way in.

    The real ones that are going to be persecuted never make it because they would be death before they can escape.

    The majority has taken the rights/place of those genuinely needing help.

    Personally, send the majority of them back to the coastline from where they came from then at that location perhaps process the real ones from the fake ones.

    unfitgeezer – Member
    Can Europe really cope with the cost…No ?

    Print more money? Cost is of no issue but the wider societal impact can be detrimental to some communities.

    Yes, some say we can live together but try overdosing it a bit see if people are still welcoming.

    The ideal solution would be to turn the boats back has a migrant boat ever been returned to its original sailing point if so what happened to that boat and its passengers ?

    Yes, that’s the solution otherwise they are just going to keep coming.

    Thoughts ?

    I am not guilty.

    They created it themselves then they have to live with it.

    Someone is going to get rid of the Syrian govt then that someone can deal with the influx.

    🙄

    konabunny
    Free Member

    I reckon they should all piss off back where they came from.

    craigxxl
    Free Member

    Yes, I have seen how long the coast of Libya is and it’s less than half of Italy’s. With drones able to scan the sea’s much faster than ever before ships can intercept these boats quicker and turn then around.

    ninfan
    Free Member

    Legally, yes. Morally? I’m not so sure. When you’re living in a small rural village with no running water or electricity and the risk of famine ever present – you can say they’re “economic migrants” if it makes you feel better about locking them out, but don’t try and pretend it’s morally correct.

    But its not the poorest of the poor who are able to migrate but those slightly better off, who can afford to do pay the traffickers – by rewarding them with success, you cast aside those in even greater need.

    edit: as CheckW says, they are taking the rights/place of those genuinely needing help.

    mikewsmith
    Free Member

    With drones able to scan the sea’s much faster than ever before ships can intercept these boats quicker and turn then around.

    How does a drone intercept a boat? Or does it them radio for a boat to intercept the other boat at some point when it’s out to sea? How do you then asses a legal right to claim asylum before returning those unworthy back home? When you are transferring the genuine refugees back to the EU (where they are legally allowed to claim asylum) who then patrols the border?

    binners
    Full Member

    Could we not run a sort of exchange programme with our resident unemployable scrotes?

    For every boat heading our way, we send an inflatable dinghy full of track-suit clad, Stella-drinking, weed-smoking shoplifters back in the other direction.

    That’d work!

    konabunny
    Free Member

    Take the people back to the country of departure, sink the boat and sentence the crew to long prison terms

    Do you think that imprisoning a few Libyan fishermen for decades is going to completely counteract all the forces driving people to the boats?

    jambalaya
    Free Member

    Yes, I have seen how long the coast of Libya is and it’s less than half of Italy’s. With drones able to scan the sea’s much faster than ever before ships can intercept these boats quicker and turn then around.

    At which point they claim their boat is sinking, actually start sinking it or jump into the sea. The international law of the sea is such you must rescue them.

    Its all very complicated.

    jambalaya
    Free Member

    Could we not run a sort of exchange programme with our resident unemployable scrotes?


    @binners
    watch @mike’s video – one in, one out 🙂

    jivehoneyjive
    Free Member

    Who destabilized the area?

    Where do the people with weapons get the weapons from and how do they afford them?

    These are the kind of questions that need to be asked to get to the bottom of how the situation has developed and prevent escalation.

    In the meantime, surely if the governments of wealthy countries can afford military spending, they can afford to help people affected by the actions of their (our) taxpayer funded Armed Forces and intelligence services.

    Furthermore, whoever is profiting from the sale of weapons which escalate conflicts should be legally bound to provide aid for populations affected by their products.

    craigxxl
    Free Member

    How does a drone intercept a boat? Or does it them radio for a boat to intercept the other boat at some point when it’s out to sea?

    The drones are launched from ships and when boats are spotted remotely on the ships the closet vessel is then tasked to intercept. This is already happening but not on large enough scale or co-ordinated.

    How do you then asses a legal right to claim asylum before returning those unworthy back home? When you are transferring the genuine refugees back to the EU (where they are legally allowed to claim asylum) who then patrols the border?

    Obviously you hadn’t read my earlier post as I stated they would processed in UN camps from the boats country of departure where the boat people have protection and those requiring a safe haven would have it provided in a suitable country.

    mogrim
    Full Member

    Could we not run a sort of exchange programme with our resident unemployable scrotes?

    binners for President!

    craigxxl
    Free Member

    Do you think that imprisoning a few Libyan fishermen for decades is going to completely counteract all the forces driving people to the boats?

    Are you going to continue to put buckets under a leaking roof or fix the leak?

    The problem isn’t the asylum seeker but those who profit from trafficking. Try reading my earlier post.

    mikewsmith
    Free Member

    So you are going to setup camps in a country that is not under any control? YOu also need a large naval presence to patrol this space and lots of boats in that fleet (how about setting off 6 or 7 boats in a way that means you can’t get to all of them?)

    If you set up refugee processing then expect plenty to queue up and be ready to apply and also expect plenty to try and get round the system. The Australian example is not a good one as the UN point out.

    zippykona
    Full Member

    Is this an issue for Russia or is it purely Western Europe they want to get to?

    mikewsmith
    Free Member

    The problem isn’t the asylum seeker but those who profit from trafficking. Try reading my earlier post.

    The problem is the reason they are seeking asylum.

    craigxxl
    Free Member

    Mike, no point debating with you. I would rather the asylum seekers reaches safety rather than be thrown over board so the smuggler can make more profit. I have no problem with offering asylum but I do have a problem with those that trade on others suffering.

    The profits are vast. Each migrant is charged at least $1,000 (£580), and more than 200 are loaded into each boat, giving him a business that generates $1m or more a week. The profit margins mean he can afford to abandon boats and migrants on the high seas.

    New boats are, however, in short supply, because Libyan boat builders cannot get supplies of timber in this crisis-torn country, and his crews face arrest if they are on board when the boats are stopped by Italian navy patrols.

    So he has recently adopted a new strategy. His crews now search for Italian warships, which patrol near an oil platform at Bouri, 70 miles from the Libyan coast.

    “As soon as the ship reaches Bouri field, I call the military forces,” he says. His crew then abandons ship in a rubber boat, and waits while the Italians pick up the migrants, leaving the boat adrift. Then his crew scrambles back aboard and sails back to Libya for a fresh cargo.
    Source

    If you want this to be the asylum seekers only route then why should we bother to try and change it?

    jambalaya
    Free Member

    Is this an issue for Russia or is it purely Western Europe they want to get to?

    I haven’t heard of too many wanting to get to Russia 😯

    Certainly plenty who get to Italy and they avoid being finger printed / ID’d as once that happens they can’t claim asylum in, say, the UK (that’s the EU law). A large number (all ?) of the migrants in Calais have come there through Europe without registering anywhere so they can try and enter the UK and claim asylum here.

    mogrim
    Full Member

    But its not the poorest of the poor who are able to migrate but those slightly better off, who can afford to do pay the traffickers – by rewarding them with success, you cast aside those in even greater need.

    edit: as CheckW says, they are taking the rights/place of those genuinely needing help.

    I think you’re comparing someone with $5 to his name to someone with $1 – they’re both still dirt poor, and genuinely need help. They’re not going to risk their lives on an overloaded boat for a quick jolly, nor is this an attempt to avoid having to pay for a legal flight.

    jambalaya
    Free Member

    The boat trip costs $500 on a boat likely to sink or $5000 on one which can make it. Plus you’ve paid to travel from sub-sharan Africa

    mogrim
    Full Member

    The boat trip costs $500 on a boat likely to sink or $5000 on one which can make it. Plus you’ve paid to travel from sub-sharan Africa

    So if they’re so rich (relatively) why are they coming in such large numbers?

    Rockape63
    Free Member

    So if they’re so rich (relatively) why are they coming in such large numbers?

    Could it be the free house, free healthcare and substantial benefits payments by any chance? Just a thought! 😕

    jambalaya
    Free Member

    @mogrim as @Rockape63 says the financial upside is much much larger whether they survive on benefits or get a job legitimately or in the underground economy.

    mogrim
    Full Member

    Could it be the free house, free healthcare and substantial benefits payments by any chance? Just a thought!

    Only the ones that can genuinely get asylum, that doesn’t apply to the economic migrants I was talking about.

    nickc
    Full Member

    Could it be the free house, free healthcare and substantial benefits payments by any chance? Just a thought!

    Truth about asylum seekers and benefits

    binners
    Full Member

    So if they’re so rich (relatively) why are they coming in such large numbers?

    They get to live in a tower block in Rochdale. This in itself tells you all you need to know about how truly desperate these people are. Perhaps some beachside billlboards extolling the many virtues of a life in Rochdale might do the trick?

    Northwind
    Full Member

    Rockape63 – Member

    Could it be the free house, free healthcare and substantial benefits payments by any chance? Just a thought!

    Yes, that’s why people are risking death. Substantial benefits payments? The average UK asylum seeker gets £35 per week of which only £10 comes in cash. So you think people are spending thousands of pounds and abandoning everything they have, for £1820 a year

Viewing 40 posts - 41 through 80 (of 156 total)

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