Helping a mate make up his mind. Whatever he chooses he will be test riding so it more about making sure he doesn't miss any obvious options. You will get the type of bike he is looking at from those below:
Orange P7 Pro
Whyte 19 Steel
On-One 456 (may go for carbon as there is little left in the budget)
Cotic Soul
Genesis Attitude 20
Ragley Blue Pig
Think thats about it!
Thanks in advance
Lots of nice options in there, however I'd go for the Soul if it was me - in fact I did.
COVE Handjob
If he tests the Soul he will buy it!
Handjob or Soul
I built up an Orange R8 the other week and am more than a little pleased with it.
Soul is nice, but would be hard to get a particularly good spec on it for £1500 bearing in mind the frame alone is £470.
The Genesis Altitude is about the closest thing out there to a Cotic Soul that exists to be honest (I know, I have one), they are truly excellent bikes! Highly recommended from me, doubt you'd be disappointed.
The Whyte 19 is about the only bike I've seen to tempt me off my Altitude, they are to die for (based on looks alone) I think. The geometry looks a little slacker, and I've not ridden one though, but I'd love a go on one, and the whole bike for £1599 doesn't look too bad value compared to the piss poor frame only price of £649.
456, you can't go wrong, they're great bikes. For your £1500 though you can just get something a bit nicer should you desire. Or a 456 with a killer build!
Carbon 456, well... Never been a fan of carbon for bike frames myself, unless it's a road bike. Strength issues aside (i've seen a load fail, mainly through wear and tear rather than excessive loads) they just remove the rider too much from the trail.
Orange P7, nice but heavy for what it is.
Ragley Blue Pig, very nice looking, not so sure on the mega slack geometry though am yet to ride one and be converted.
All nice bikes to be fair, each different in their own way. Suspect if it's more of an XC bike you're after you'll look at the Soul and the Genesis, possibly the Whyte. More of a hooligan bike then the Blue Pig. And somewhere inbetween sit the P7 and the 456.
Soul is nice, but would be hard to get a particularly good spec on it for £1500 bearing in mind the frame alone is £470.
With forks like the Fox's On-One have on offer I don't think it'd be too difficult. Might need to go with Deore for the drivetrain but that's hardly a hardship.
My Soul was built up with 2nd hand bits and cost less than £1K to put together.
I'd scrub them all and go get a Dialled Prince Albert. Mine cost £1500 and was a lovely build.
I'd scrub them all and go get a Dialled Prince Albert. Mine cost £1500 and was a lovely build.
Me too !
Totally the Soul... Mine cost under £1500 and there's nothing much wrong with it- X9, XTR cranks, Revelations and Roval Traversee wheels, gravity dropper, monkeylite bars... Very little of it was bought new but it was all in good shape.
Charge?
orange R8 looks lovely in the flesh
second hand soul or dialled or cove frame and posh build?
Singular hummingbird?
May be a bit too XC compared to some you've mentioned.
I have absolutely loved my Genesis Altitude 20: properly excellent first bike. Loads of singletrack, a weekend at Afan - it's taken it all in its stride.
Cove Handjob or the Genesis.
I've got a handjob and a genesis iO and they're cracking bikes/frames
Your short list all seem to be longer travel hard tails....
otherwise I would also recommend the charge duster I've had one nearly 2 years now, great bike. I've also got a genesis io and is fantastic winter/low maintenance bike, you can get a hub geared one for around £1100.
second hand soul or dialled or cove frame and posh build?
Should be able to build a decent Prince Albert up for £1500 as the frame is only £280 new.
Loving my custom built Altitude and can't see me changing bikes for the foreseeable. Isn't the P7 meant to be a bit on the porky side for 2010? Anyone know the frameweight as it's not on their site?
Rode an Orange R8 recently, amazingly fast climber. Expensive though. Also rode a Pace 104, very nice all 'round and lovely details. Singular Hummingbird looks interesting...29 front wheel with supplied rigid forks or 26 suspended and good value. Hope to try that one soon. Chameleon is a hoot, great fun, if a bit of a bone shaker. Oh, and i own a PA, super frame very versatile.
soul!
I tested the Altitude and Soul and in the end the Soul was a very clear winner. A £1500 build is very doable, admittedly mine is probably a bit over that but a lot of kit was transferred from the old bike. I did my demo at (and subsequently bought from) Dales Bike Centre; nothing like a long ride on proper trails to help make your mind up.
I went from a 456 with 140mm pikes to a BMC aluminium race hardtail with 100mm rebas and dropped about 5lbs in weight. In hindsight, something in the middle would be better.
The 456 was a bit porky and the bmc is harsh to say the least. Probably looking to swap the frame for something more forgiving, even if it adds a pound. Don't miss the 40mm of travel, the dual and bash or the short stem. Unless you live somewhere really steep or are a nutter, more than 120mm and 27lb'ish is a bit overkill imo.
I tested the Altitude and Soul and in the end the Soul was a very clear winner.
Interested to know what you found the differences were MrGreedy. I've had an Altitude for a while now (an 853 one) and literally can't tell the difference between the 2 other than cosmetically. Geometry is as good as identical, similar frame weight, both 853 etc. The only real difference is the conventional stays on the Genesis (which I actually prefer aesthetically) and the Wishbone seatstay on the Cotic.
@mboy
Inevitably there's an element of subjectivity in this, but I found the front end of the Soul noticeably more positive feeling and less wandery, despite longer forks on the demo bike I had. There also seemed to be significantly less trail buzz through the rear (or perhaps it was just more muted). That said, there were plenty of other variables involved (tyres, build kit etc.) so now you mention it, it probably wasn't as night vs day as I suggested. How's that for a climbdown? 
How's that for a climbdown?
haha, cheers!
Have had 2 different forks, and various different tyres on my Altitude so far now. Can say that the bits on a bike will drastically change the way a frame rides. Got big fast tyres on it right now, and it's quick and responsive, but very forgiving. With narrower mud tyres on it's very direct, even more nimble, but quite harsh! Not as harsh as an ally frame though mind...
Cool thanks Chaps
soul £470-boardman fs with 120mm bolt through rebas, x9, ritchey pro wheels-£1000ish swap bits over £100ish of odd bits to finish build ie seatpost, headset, sell boardman frame and bits left over £250-350=nice soul £1300ish, sorted
Just to throw something into the mix, we're about to start doing custom build Handjobs (read that as you wish!!) for around the £1200 mark....SLX, Revelation 130s etc etc...slack, short and whippy.....what else does a man need!
The 2010 frame has been finessed further and is now a nice piece of work.
Recently bought my first 'real' mountain bike, a Blue Pig. Right about 1500 quid all in, maybe a bit less. Keeping in mind that I'm a complete newbie and have nothing to compare it to, it's been awesome so far.
On my first outing my mates took me to a local downhill track (maybe they're not my mates after all...). I sh*t my pants, but after a few runs I really started to understand everything I'd read about the Pig. I stayed upright much more than I deserved to. MUCH more. By the end of the day I was still slow, but once over the initial raw bile-in-my-throat panic, the bike actually felt stable and controllable on the steep downs.
Since then I've been going downhilling every weekend, and it just keeps getting better.
I also had my first serious climb on Sunday. 800 vertical meters over an ascent of perhaps 3 or 4 kilometers. Looked like a f-ing wall. I thought was going to die half way, but only because I'm fat and out of shape. Can't fault the Pig at all. Fell over in the same spots as the guys riding their XC Cubes and Specializeds, due to the rear losing traction. The front didn't look like it was wandering much more than the other bikes. I was more knackered than the others at the end, but as previously mentioned, I'm fat and weak.
So all in all, happy as a clam. Although I don't really have anything to compare the Pig to, and haven't pushed it to even a small fraction of its ability, I'd recommend it very highly.
And the principle lesson of my first two months of mountain biking?
I'd rather kill myself going down than up.
Is the charge duster hi...really not a contender?
Im interested in exactly the same as the OP but keep returning to the duster and yet it doesnt semm to swing much credence on STW?
How come?
Sanderson Life?
Get a test ride on a Ragley before dismissing it due to the "slack" geo.
Compared to the Prince Albert I replaced, my Blue Pig descends better, climbs the same, better through the singletrack (might be the wiiiiiide bars I'm running) and is much much more confidence inspiring on steep steppy stuff (as you'd expect).
I also think it's comfier on longer rides.
I transfered everything from the PA on to the Ragley, then swapped the bars from hardly narrow 680 Truvativs to 760mm Nuke proofs about 6 rides later.
The slack head angle allows you to run plenty of sag without ending up with too steeper HA when sagged.
Also when it all gets a bit squirelly and you start to bang through the fork travel, you aren't left feeling like you are about to go over the bars if your weight isn't right back.
This means you can ride the fork more and get more front wheel grip.
456 is very very good, head angle is just right, dowsnt feel slack, doesnt feel too tight either.
kinesis virsa is very good as well (I've a DMR switchback which shares the same geometry). Steeper, but a slightly longer stem slows the steering back down so on singletrack I'd say its as good if not better than the 456, but not quite as great pointing down. Back end didnt feel as stiff either.
The Duster is quite a nice, well finished frameset. It's not the lightest nor slackest and is corrected for a 100mm fork from what I remember.
As a complete build, the Duster Mid is really good value from the right place and is a good, fun ride!
I have a 2010 P7 S, only cost me just over a grand, rode it today at Llandegla actually, for a change from the full suss. I was only 5 mins slower I was expecting to take a lot longer to be honest because it is a heavy bike, but once you are on the bike you dont really feel the extra weight its just so fun to ride, its fantastic pointing down and I would recommend one. I will be in the market for some lighter forks to fit for it soon though
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