It's certainly interesting to see that (on here at least) in the continual debate about the existence of God, virtually all the abusive language comes from the aethiest side.

yeh the christians just had the spanish inquisition, the mass subjugation of indiginous peoples all over the world and all religions has caused more "justified evils" than anything else I can think off. so I suppose in that context calling a generic someone a tool makes me a bad person. 🙄

even if a billion people believe the earth is flat and sits on the back of 4 elephants it doesn't make it true. The number of people involved in a belief gives it no validity whatsoever.

As I understnd it, religion is about faith, therfore trying to prove the existance of a god through a pseudo scientfic rationale such as IDT or creationism only weakens any postion that its proponents have.

If your belief/faith/blind hope gives you strength and a moral compass for life, then that is fantastic.

I just wish folks don't try to dress up a belief with the use of millions of dollars such the answers in genesis group of creationists who have succeeded in getting creationism taught in schools in america as a valid science not as an alternative religious theory.

hope that's a bit less purile for you.xx

kennyp – Member

…………………
Oh, and for the record, I don't believe the literal idea of creationism, and neither can I be 100% there is a deity. However given that billions of people all over the world do, I'd say the evidence is far from clear cut either way.

Oh good – some evidence that god exists? Where – please let us know.

In this you show your ignorance of what "evidence" means. There is no evidence that God exists.

I find it incomprehensible that humanity as a whole doesn't seem to be dealing with the fact that massive overpopulation is the source of every problem.

A few million atheists living with a few million Jews and a few million Creationists driving a few million 4×4's……….we, and the planet could cope with that, and all get on nicely.

Hence I think it is mad that people think there are problems with religion, climate change etc. etc. It's all overpopulation. Deal with it now, one child per couple world wide. Forced snips and massive penalties for disobedience.

"A few million atheists living with a few million Jews and a few million Creationists"
So it's all the fault of the Catholics, Christians and Muslims then is it?

Deal with it now, one child per couple world wide. Forced snips and massive penalties for disobedience.
Gas chambers perhaps?

In this you show your ignorance of what "evidence" means. There is no evidence that God exists

but there is eveidence that millions of people believe s/he does, find immense comfort and happiness from that belief and, contrary to stwista dogma, don't spend all their time 'ramming it down other peoples throats'.

Why can't you (and your ilk) show some respect and tolerance for peoples faith and accept that 'religion' like many human cultural phenomena is inevitably going to be used by extremists for their own divisive purposes.

From Wiki ( a favourite of yours I think!)
faith involves a concept of future events or outcomes, and is used for a belief "not resting on logical proof or material evidence."

I'm sure you have beliefs which are not scientifically verifiable, so why not live and let live instead of the constant taunts and insults…..

Anyone who reads The Daily Mail.

Hilldodger, could not agree more with your last post.

I am an athiest, I don't shout it from the rooftops, the rest of my family are Christian. We have all made our choices in terms of what we believe and are content with that. Its a live and let live all the way.

Bored with all this religion cr@p, lets have something we can all agree on:

People who think it's a good idea to turn their rear foglights on as soon as it starts raining.

People who think they are too special to use the left hand lane.

Why can't you (and your ilk) show some respect and tolerance for peoples faith

I tolerate people worshipping Man Utd (or any other footy team), but don't particularly respect it. Likewise for religion.

Growing up in the UK, with its established church, 'ruled' by a monarch who is keeper-of-the-faith (to whom's family we must all defer) and having bishops in the House of Lords (despite the fact that the majority of people have no involvement with the C of E or any other church) it is difficult to avoid religion.

People who think anything to do with cars or driving is remotely interesting ?

hilldodger – Premier Member

Why can't you (and your ilk) show some respect and tolerance for peoples faith and accept that 'religion' like many human cultural phenomena is inevitably going to be used by extremists for their own divisive purposes.

………………

I'm sure you have beliefs which are not scientifically verifiable, so why not live and let live instead of the constant taunts and insults…..

Now I know you like attacking me for reasons I do not understand – but how about limiting it to things I have done ( of which there are plenty) rather than making stuff up.

I do not go for constant "taunts and insults" and I have a lot of tolerance for religion. However when someone talks about "evidence" in relation to religion it is like a red rag to a bull – as there is no evidence.

Religion is not harmless – it causes much damage and the adherents of religion have shaped our society in ways that are not helpful at all. If people wish to follow a religion in the privacy of their own home then that is fine. When it is used as a justification for war or for restrictions on what I can and cannot do then it is simply unacceptable in a civilised society.

Religious adherents have a great influence on society and that I resent strongly.

Religion is not harmless

TJ, it's not the religion that causes the harm but some of the people who use it as an excuse to justify their non-religious behaviour….

When it is used as a justification for war .

So a group persecuted for their beliefs would not be justified in fighting for the right to uphold them ??

or for restrictions on what I can and cannot do then it is simply unacceptable in a civilised society.

So how has your behaviour been restricted by someone elses religious belief ?

…as for attacking you, well let's just say we've all got our 'red rags' eh, and I find your endlessly repetitive postings mine 😉

Religion does cause harm – from the spread of aids becuase the catholic chuch won't allow condoms to restrictions on medical research becus3e of religous sensitivities

Justification for war – both gulf wars for starters

restrictions on what I can do – buying alcohol on Sundays for starters.

Hilldodger – as I say – attack me for what I have done is fine but inventing things to attack me for is tedious in the extreme.

Hilldodger – as I say – attack me for what I have done is fine but inventing things to attack me for is tedious in the extreme.

TandemJeremy – Member
Godbotherers. I don't understand them.

So you're prepared to criticise something you don't understand….

TandemJeremy – Member
If the godbotherers would just stick to bothering their gods quietly it would help. Far too many of them seem to believe they are morally superior to atheists and proclaim this loudly and religion in all its forms has such a negative effect on our society – from the refusal of Catholic hierarchy to allow condom use to prevent aids to the suicide bombers.

this is why people get so annoyed with godbothers. Religion is probably the most harmful force after capitalism

So you don't find any of the language you've used there in anyway insulting, provocative or disrespectful to peoples beliefs ??

restrictions on what I can do – buying alcohol on Sundays for starters.

Is there a restriction on Sunday alcohol buying ? not in England

Religion does cause harm – from the spread of aids becuase the catholic chuch won't allow condoms

There is no higher incidence of HIV infection in Catholic cultures than non-Catholic cultures !
In fact, if the Catholic views on sexual conduct were followed more tightly the spread (of AIDS) would be reduced, not increased. So one may argue that it is the lack of rigour in following Catholic beliefs that has caused the 'spread of AIDS' and the beliefs themselves are promoting healthy sexual behaviour.

However when someone talks about "evidence" in relation to religion it is like a red rag to a bull – as there is no evidence.

You really don't understand do you – the 'religion' is a set of beliefs and the people who follow them.
There is evidence for the religion, (I mean we're talking about it so it must exist, right?) but perhaps not, at least by your criteria, the objects of belief.

i'd add people that believe something because they've taken the time to read it. this applies to Daily Mail, Express, koran, bible and any other religious texts.

religions and their followers.

people that walk around in a hijab/burka thing in london (or anywhere else for that matter) sweating like a pig underneath. not neccessarily anti islam (although i am on the basis of it being a made up bullshit story), but rather having to get from my mates place near brick lane to liverpool st station on a sunday. it induces a gag reflex.

billy connelly on the subjetc…..NSFW

that half bent bloke, mika. he's proper shit and offensively so. mate and i got chucked out of the V festival for throwing bottles at him whilst off our tits. 🙂

kids. specifically the two boys in my kids class yesterday.

there is so much more but i'll just get myself pent up and pissed off about it and frankly there is very little i can do about it sitting here in my kitchen.

Pointless as it may be to engage with you.

I actually understand a lot about religion both the Christian sects and other religions. I understand religion. I do not understand how people can believe in it.

As for you comment on the catholic church and condom use you are so wrong it simply is not true.

You on the other hand are ignorant and vengeful and will thus be ignored in future.

Is there a restriction on Sunday alcohol buying

Yup, no buying of booze before 12-30 on a Sunday in Scotland(or it may be 12-00 I'm not sure). To be honest this is little more than a hang over and let's be honest who really wants to buy booze at that time on a Sunday.

There is no higher incidence of HIV infection in Catholic cultures than non-Catholic cultures !
In fact, if the Catholic views on sexual conduct were followed more tightly the spread (of AIDS) would be reduced, not increased. So one may argue that it is the lack of rigour in following Catholic beliefs that has caused the 'spread of AIDS' and the beliefs themselves are promoting healthy sexual behaviour.

That is particularly shakey ground you are on there. Whilst it is true that adherence to the strict Catholic views on sex would prevent the spread of all STDs it is also safe to say that the reluctance to accept the truth that it is an unworkable and ineffective policy has done more harm than good. To paraphrase Voltaire the search for a perfect solution should not be at the cost of an effective solution.

Incidentally I know of many people who identify as Catholics who do not follow the churches teachings on contraception and I'm not talking about young people either. I'll lay odds that many Catholic women use methods other that the rhythm method.

You on the other hand are ignorant and vengeful

😆 Romans 12:19-21 😆

and will thus be ignored in future

Result….

So you're prepared to criticise something you don't understand….

I think it bizarre that you should think otherwise. I also criticise rapists yet I don't understand why they do it…

Hilldodger is right in one, probably only one sense, that is that religion may not be the actual cause of war, genocide and racism etc.
All conflicts between humans are the same as any social species – conflicts over RESOURCES, TERRITORY and SOCIAL STATUS, and these things would be going on with or without an invented cultural structure like religion.
Still, as humanity is supposedly self-aware, and has the ability to reason, thats not an excuse for NOT getting rid of it.

illdodger – Premier Member

……………..
"and will thus be ignored in future"

Result….
You are the one wasting your time attacking me. I do not set out to attack you constantly. I wonder what is going on in your mind that you find it necessary to attack someone all the time.
Perhaps you should just give my postings the credence they deserve 🙂 Merely the opinions of one person.

let's be honest who really wants to buy booze at that time on a Sunday

well TJ for one, expect it's just for his "breakfast brandy coffee" though 😉

To paraphrase Voltaire the search for a perfect solution should not be at the cost of an effective solution.

yes, I agree – but if you're looking to criticise belief systems on the basis of their impact on human health then there are far better targets than TJ's 'Catholic church spreads HIV' – I was just putting one alternate view for the sake of this discussion…..

Yup, no buying of booze before 12-30 on a Sunday in Scotland(or it may be 12-00 I'm not sure).

It changed last year, Sunday hours are the same as every other day now. About October I think so very recent.

You are the one wasting your time attacking me. I do not set out to attack you constantly.

Funny that you should think an exchange of views (and one in which I've used no insulting or abusive language ) is an attack 😉

I wonder what is going on in your mind that you find it necessary to attack someone all the time.

On call, bored, fun winding you up – simples 😆

I also criticise rapists yet I don't understand why they do it…

No, but you do understand the act and concept of rape so are able to assess it as an act if not the motivation for it…

Hilldodger – you clearly are making personal attacks on me and doing so deliberately. There is a significant difference between debate and personal attacks.

Are you really that sad and unfulfilled that it amuses you to make these attacks? How sad.

and will thus be ignored in future

apparently not 😆

Barsnleymitch wrote:

A few million atheists living with a few million Jews and a few million Creationists"
So it's all the fault of the Catholics, Christians and Muslims then is it?

Haha, forgot how careful you need to word your posts on this forum! Don't have the space to list every creed, race and religion, this is a random few to get the idea across.

Andyp wrote:

Gas chambers perhaps?

Would you believe I don't even read the Daily Mail? Equal rights to one kid for all, no discrimination (except, naturally, against fat overweight benefit scrounging single mothers, and the slackers that sired them). I'm pro life, just in smaller quantities. Gas chambers are for baking comestibles in and for small scale one-at-a-time crematoriums 😆

the bogtrotters.

chuckle.

the bogtrotters.

except it's rare we can agree on anything 🙂

Junkyard, apologies, not you.TJ,telling somebody you are going to ignore him, then not…pretty funny. Listing examples of how God affects your life,even funnier!

"Haha, forgot how careful you need to word your posts on this forum! Don't have the space to list every creed, race and religion, this is a random few to get the idea across."
Aye, dont upset the Catholic massive, I'll have to get all spanish inquisition on your arse! 😉

On threads like this it's worth remembering –

"You can't use logic to talk someone out of a position that they didn't use logic to get into in the first place."

Rational discourse is dependent upon shared assumptions.

Back to the OP

The Vegetarian Society

Back to the OP-

Mormons.

Its too close sounding to the excellent group the Moomins. It can be confusing 😕

Its too close sounding to the excellent group the Moomins.

to be fair, I think moomins are a different species, like snorks, hemulens and hattifatteners

You made that last one up Barnes!

I know but when I tell people that Im a Moomin (usually after a few jars)- they mishear and think I want to talk to them about Jesus.