miketually – Member
I just hate teachers.
Classy.

Were you in education today, you’d be required to back up your position with evidence. Care to do so?

Anecdotally I’m sure I could provide reams of examples of graduates lacking in basic common spelling and arithmetic skills, not to mention asking simple things like naming English Counties, who the figure on the top of Nelsons Column was and what did he do.

But that isn’t evidence of teaching skills or lack thereof, my hatred extends beyond that, it’s the general patronising attitude they carry across from pupils to me as a parent, similar to those posting here, they just have this arrogance born from standing in a room of young humans forced to listen to them.

We had an old saying for them, teachers, the male versions, men amongst boys and boys amongst men, it is so very true.

Now, it is my opinion, it can’t be disputed so don’t try, you won’t change it. There are of course exceptions, some are even friends, but when it comes to the crunch, even they can be absolute tossers, it goes with the job.

EDIT: you attempted to answer.

you won’t change it.

Some people are like pistachios you know. 🙁

Wowsers Derekfish.
I get the trolling, nice one.
Out of curiosity what do you do for a living?

I’m wondering what job you’re employing them for where spelling, basic maths, knowledge of English counties and trivia about London landmarks are a key requirement?

I could give you lots of examples of graduates who could do all these things, do you have an address I could give them to send you their CV? Perhaps the nature of your work leads to poor quality applicants?

Incidentally, what is your job? I’d like to make some generalised comments about everyone who does it, based on limited knowledge.

Gove likes academies. He also likes academic rigour.

I saw some analysis last week showing that academies are far more likely to use GCSE-equivalents to boost their league position than non-academies.

The man’s a genius.

But that isn’t evidence of teaching skills or lack thereof, my hatred extends beyond that, it’s the general patronising attitude they carry across from pupils to me as a parent, similar to those posting here, they just have this arrogance born from standing in a room of young humans forced to listen to them.

You can look at it that way, I suppose. Or you could accept that they’re trained, experienced professionals who know more about education than you. I daresay you do even come across some who seem arrogant – but do remember that all of them, arrogant or not, have to deal with stroppy parents who also think they know more about education than teachers.

For the record, I think I’m condescending rather than patronising.

BTW – lets take the piss out of silly ideas but not about someone’s appearance – that’s poor.

+1

He scrapped “Every Child Matters” the day after he came into office. And just four years and one election-a-looming later, he wants schools to provide wholesone and character-building activities to fill those 10 hours of the day. (keen watchers may recall that for many schools, this was one of the things lost with the scrapping of ECM) Smooooooooooth. 8)

I’ve just had a thought, as all teachers are tossers and doing a sh1t job of teaching our kids who Nelson is, maybe we should just sack them all.
Yes it makes perfect sense. There’s 420,000 (or so) of the spongers out there, there average salary is a staggering £37,000.
My simpleton maths (damn education system) gives a saving of £15,540,000,000.
Now we’re all so stupid to understand that big number, maybe Derekfish could help explain it to us?

Anyway I’m distracting myself (maybe I’m the product of my poor education). My thought would be to buy each child a copy of a Uk atlas, a dictionary and print out a copy of the Nelson Wikipedia page.
At least that way they’ll all be qualified for the modern workplace.
Maybe they could start working earlier? Say at 6 or 7 years old?

Thoughts ?

Could the nice Mr Gove, be a conservative party troll,he certainly seems to wind people upmore than a large key in a clockwork toy.

Kimbers – King James is arguably the greatest work in the English language…regardless of religious orientation I’d want my kids taught about it!

If there was a little more acceptance about the parlous state of UK education from the people partially responsible (I include politicians, parents and society in general as well) then maybe teachers wouldn’t need to be permanently offended by Gove. The bleating from the teaching unions against anything which disturbs their discredited orthodoxy runs the risk of turning public opinion against the profession, and lets not pretend that the opposition is much more than politically motivated.

I just hate teachers

How can you hate all of one profession? I could understand if it was ‘I hate all Software Developers’ and ‘all people with the middle name of Peter’, but all teachers?

My Dad was a teacher. Do you hate him as well? Do I need to warn him?

I want to see Pob go into a Rochdale comp and personally explain how he was extending their school day to allow them to attend debating societies

Like most of the present Tory party, he views the world through the prism of a 1950’s Home Counties utopia that never actually existed. And his every superior, patronising, condescending utterance simply goes to reinforce how utterly and completely detached from everyday reality these gilded ****-wits actually are

jeffm – Member
there average salary is a staggering £37,000.

Their salary is also matched with an excellent pension and holiday periods, far in excess of any of the average pay the private sector in which I exist can expect and private sector pensions well don’t get me on another rant.

So, all in all, teachers should be happy with their lot in life.

Michael Gove is passionate about his task, which is dauntless if he genuinely thinks he can get the state sector to come even close to the private sector, not least to the essential difference which generally is in pastoral care.

But can you tell us why you think he’s doing a good job?

binners – Member
I want to see Pob go into a Rochdale comp and personally explain how he was extending their school day to allow them to attend debating societies
Like most of the present Tory party, he views the world through the prism of a 1950’s Home Counties utopia that never actually existed. And his every superior, patronising, condescending utterance simply goes to reinforce how utterly and completely detached from everyday reality these gilded ****-wits actually are

^^this.

Jeffm. Keep up the good work

Gove is the worst kind of political cretin.

bainbrge – Member
Kimbers – King James is arguably the greatest work in the English language…regardless of religious orientation I’d want my kids taught about it!

Even if I did agree with you Id recommend something practical like the use of this website

http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/

of course it does nothing to aid the expansion of Gove’s garganutuan ego

Derekfish – You are Nigel Farage and I claim my ten shillings!

Have you a view on them all being gays and communists, by any chance?

deadlydarcy – Member
But can you tell us why you think he’s doing a good job?

Because the incumbents are wailing & whining like the idle unrealworldly fools that they are.

I’m loving every minute of it.

Time for them to wake up to private sector working hours.

Because the incumbents are wailing & whining like the idle unrealworldly fools that they are.
I’m loving every minute of it.
Time for them to wake up to private sector working hours.

So you can’t then. Fairy nuff. But you should have just admitted that at the start.

Private sector working hours Oh – that old fable.
I was marking at 6am and finished work at 5am – quite enough thank you.
i will be in tomorrow at 7am and finish 5.30 after a meeting with work to do at home.
Trust me – I am working as smart as possible at the mo.
Teaching is hard in Borris town.

But but but

HOLIDAYS!!!

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Yes holidays are ace – hence I take the hit during term time.
Have you tried keeping 32 15 year olds in a room for an hour on task?
Teaching is something you can do or you cannot. It’s a bit like being an actor 30% of the time – a professor 40% – a dad 20% of the time and an unstable mad uncle who wants you to do really well 10%.

How do you reconcile bemoaning a fall in educational standards with supporting a man who wants to impose more tests (which unavoidably reduces the amount of time pupils spend being taught)?

This thread is ace. Derekfish, can you tell me anything Gove has done to improve education?

There are certain people on STW who are in the cut and thrust of the private sector. They will happily admit they do **** all and get paid pretty well for it. All the teachers I know work their arses off.

They do love moaning though. 🙂

@Wally (because I’d hate there to be any misunderstanding) I was taking the mick.

If I got a similar salary and the same pension in a private school would I be able to moan more or less?

Watch the BBC recent new teachers programme before you throw stones.
It’s very accurate.
Tough young teachers

I know 🙂 You’re an old hand at this xxx
Right off to bed – up at 6 to start altering my SEF because my SIP is in and my raiseonline needs analysing. nighty night!

There are hundreds on zero hours contracts, many more on annual contracts, don’t talk to me about private sector luxuries..

More hours, better discipline and higher standards, what can possibly be wrong with asking for that after the rest of us have worked our butts off standing still for the past 7 years.

We’re all in this together, remember that?

Time for teachers to join in.

They wouldn’t know how to work their arse off, other than polishing a seat with it.

That nasty man really did bad things to you didnt he. Point on the doll, its the first step in making you feel better

Like – at the risk of sounding like a broken record, what’s Gove doing to fulfil this fantasy world you dream of?

anagallis_arvensis – Member
That nasty man really did bad things to you didnt he. Point on the doll, its the first step in making you feel better

Yes he did <points at dolls bottom> and all I did was have a bit of a fit of giggles in general studies.

God I bet teachers wish they could toss it off on private sector working hours.

Gove is compleatly out of his depth in the education depth and has only random soundbites based on a vague memory of his own school to promote as policy. If every one qualified to comment disagrees maybe you are not a visionary but an idiot.

It’s simple – Gove is hitting big – making waves to climb the ladder – he has huge aspirations. Unfortunately education is where he is now. He will be gone soon. Also education goes in cycles – sort of 20 year ones – Be nice – play the tune – keep out of trouble and always treat a new day as a fresh opportunity for all. Never give up on anyone.

Nowt wrong with learning about the Bible it’s key in understanding Europe for the last 1000+ years. Doesn’t mean you have to be religious mind.

Teachers lets face it always winge and as most are lefties will hate the Tories no matter what. It’s kind of predictable and boring really. I don’t see anything wrong with a few more exams let’s everyone know how the kids are doing with no dodgy teacher subjectivity plus helps the student learn exam technique and to work under pressure.

I agree – don’t knock teachers until you have stood in their shoes for a term.
However, all that Gove is suggesting is proven to be less effective than good teaching. See the ‘top ten’ ways of improving learning according to the worlds biggest study of teaching and learning. Notice that Gove’s long days, more exams and debating does not appear ( they are bottom of the table, and not effective in comparison).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visible_Learning
I spent Saturday with the head of General Teaching Council Scotland and senior advisors for Education Scotland. All were in agreement – if you want to improve outcomes for kids in school, empower, invest in and train the teachers. Here we now have in place a radically different approach to being a teacher, including regular professional update, that is at masters level, that will be funded and supported by local authorities and schools. It is not perfect, it is still being worked out. But it is a move strongly in the right direction, unlike England.

I have a Master in Education – all it taught me to do is reflect upon research and listen to ideas around me. Education system does not fit all – it never can and never will do, all you can hope for is a best fit model with the adaptability within to cater for most. The sad truth is most of the time parents are to blame, but this is a VERY hard pill to swollow. So obviously not taken.