“The bottom line is that the quality of a school system cannot exceed the quality of its teachers.”

So they (NUT) should be all in favour of regular testing and training for teachers!!

Well that’s one interpretation of that statement however you do appear to be assuming that the quality of the school system is being limited by it’s teachers which is not what that statement says.

I dunno thm, you’re directing that at me like I’m a fan of the Labour Party or something? What are you on about?

Make teaching harder will just make the massive losses of trained teachers from the system worse.

I think we spend 75% of our budget on salaries; probably more now as we’ve had our budget cut and have attempted to make as many savings as possible through non-staff cuts, though we’ve not been replacing people who leave.

As a result of the budget cuts, each member of teaching staff has one extra hour of contact time per week, and our average class size is up. Will this increase or decrease standards?

Actually, I’d be interested in knowing how many hours contact time a teacher in an independent school has each week, and what class sizes.

Not at all. I am not attacking teachers. Why would I?

I am surprised that the body who claims to be protecting teachers (their tagline) is immediately against the labour party’s proposals though. Surprised? That’s the wrong word really. 😉

Hello THM. Any chance you could answer the question you keep ignoring?

The thing is, competency procedures to get rid of crap teachers exist, and they’re used. It’s only people who believe what they read in the papers who think they don’t.

So sounds like Tristram Hunt will be just as bad a Gove then. These bloody politicians…….when will THEY learn?

THM, for what it’s worth your posts are incredibly hard to follow. You’ve used !! and everything. Perhaps slow down

As with our students AA, it’s often better to let people do their own independent research first. It’s not beyond the imagination of anyone in the profession to identify way of improvement that do not require added investment. Globally, people achieve considerable success with considerably fewer monetary resources. Money helps, yes, but as the NUT say (since you may not believe me) it’s less important than other factors.

Such as? You seem to be struggling here.

C’mon AA you don’t spoon feed your students do you?

I am surprised that the body who claims to be protecting teachers (their tagline) is immediately against the labour party’s proposals though.

You’re surprised that a union is against proposals that will make their members’ working conditions poorer?

If all you’re going to do is constantly test them, spoon-feeding’s all you’ll have time for…

It’s not beyond the imagination of anyone in the profession to identify way of improvement that do not require added investment.

Here you go:

* Reduced testing – this’ll save money;
* Fewer inspections – this’ll save money;
* Scrap the free schools policy – this’ll save money;
* Fewer changes of curriculum – this’ll save money;
* No pointless schemes to register/licence teachers – this’ll save money.

I’ve heard that before on here pondo….

Well mike, When you listen to right wingers 😉 like Tristram Hunt saying

“If you’re not a motivated teacher – passionate about your subject, passionate about being in the classroom – then you shouldn’t really be in this profession.

“So if you’re not willing to engage in relicensing to update your skills then you really shouldn’t be in the classroom,” he added.

Perhaps I should feel some sympathy for the NUTs views?

Edit for x post. Well that rules out both Tories and labour then mike. How do the lib Dems stack up?

on AA you don’t spoon feed your students do you?

i prefer that they dont write poorly thought out bollocks with no evidence or even suggestions in the way of back up either. Come on can YOU tell me how you would close the private-state gap with no additional investment or will you just keep wriggling?

If you’re a motivated teacher – passionate about your subject, passionate about being in the classroom – then you don’t need relicensing to force you to update your skills.

i prefer that they dont write poorly thought out bollocks with no evidence or even suggestions in the way of back up either.

Hey, me too! Perhaps there’s not such a difference between state and independent schools after all 🙂

I’ve heard that before on here pondo….

And what was your answer then?

anagallis_arvensis – Member
i prefer that they dont write poorly thought out bollocks with no evidence

+1 fully agree.

Which is why I am ignoring the question that you keep putting into my mouth. It’s written poorly with no evidence. I have stated and repeated that money does not guarantee academic success, and that there are more important factors involved. This has been agreed by other posters and outside evidence (OECD, PISA tests, the NUT etc). That is different from the point that you seem to suggesting that I am making. So I will keep wriggling with these august bodies quoted above in the meantime. 😉

One of my favourite reminders is – read the question. Answer it, not the one you would like it to be, or think that it is.

pondo – Member
I’ve heard that before on here pondo….

And what was your answer then?

Avoid those who think that is the answer. The overriding message given at 6th form parents evening this Saturday (shucks) was that the key factor determining the ability to achieve the top grades was the amount of independent reading.

What are these more important factors and how do we improve on them?

The overriding message given at 6th form parents evening this Saturday (shucks) was that the key factor determining the ability to achieve the top grades was the amount of independent reading.

That’s all the problems solved, then. Somebody needs to tell state schools about this, because it’s probably never occurred to them before.

I am sure it has. That’s why there are many very good ones. Any good teacher knows that whatever sector they teach in. And it’s essentially free and available to all.

Jesus you really are floundering now. So I spread the word to parents that sixth formers should read a bit and it’ll all be good. What about the parents who dont come to parents evenings or cant speak english of which I have loads?

it’s essentially free and available to all

It’s a shame libraries are closing.

The overriding message given at independent school’s 6th form parents evening this Saturday (shucks) was that the key factor determining the ability of students at an independent school with small class sizes to achieve the top grades was the amount of independent reading.

You missed out some detail, so I added it back in.

Floundering me? 😀

Several problems – reading does not make “it all good” but equally….

A little bit doesn’t count. To hit the highest marks and achieve entry to the top Unis you need to read A LOT. There is little getting away from that. If nothing else that is the best prep for when you are there.

Yes, if parents show no interest, that is a major problem. Indeed as we have mostly agreed this, not money, is probably the single biggest issue.

It is a great shame that libraries are closing indeed.

Plenty of pupils in small classes who don’t work hard and don’t read do not succeed so the edit didn’t really help. But thanks anyway.

Which is why I am ignoring the question that you keep putting into my mouth. It’s written poorly with no evidence. I have stated and repeated that money does not guarantee academic success, and that there are more important factors involved.

Err correct me if I’m wrong but I thought that it was the answer to a question that required the evidence, not the question.

You should spend a day at my school and then go and spend a day at a tough school, then maybe you would stop posting such laughable drivel. So how do we improve outcomes for those from difficult homes?

I will then. You are wrong. 😉 or at least talking at cross purposes. As for evidence I have suggested the sources but prefer not to spoon feed. 😉

AA was attempting to pick me up on something that I didn’t say, Since the repeated question was based on a false premise, I chose to ignore it.

Anyway lunch and football match now…..

anagallis_arvensis – Member
You should spend a day at my school and then go and spend a day at a tough school, then maybe you would stop posting such laughable drivel.

A very good idea for everyone. Thanks. Perhaps even the Secretary of State and his shadow?

It is a great shame that libraries are closing indeed.

Why? They’re obsolete.

We seem to get on OK without a town crier too.

5thElefant – Member
It is a great shame that libraries are closing indeed.

Why? They’re obsolete.

Ill explain this to my son on Saturday – we cant go down to the library this weekend to get some more books and see whats new on their discovery wall instead we will be staying at home and watching TV

and tell all the people there using the computers to get off and leave

in fact your comment gets bonus ignorance points as its National Library Day this weekend and we were planning to go and meet the Gruffalo
http://www.hounslow.info/libraries/promotions/national-libraries-day/

Really? So how about making it much easier for heads to sack poor performing teachers and introducing rigorous and regular testing to teachers.

Would that encourage employers to take some responsibility in training their staff to do the job instead of offloading all costs and responsibility to the state? Like I said right wingers whinge about state spending and entitlement, but by god do they expect all their needs to be met.

Why? They’re obsolete.

We seem to get on OK without a town crier too.
I’ll give you town criers, but libraries aren’t obsolete for a lot of people just yet.

MSP. – these are proposals from the Labour Party. Originally from Ed Balls and more recently from Tristram Hunt. These are expectations from two of the most senior Labour Party politicians and from two people who have their eyes on the top job. So not just RW then is it?

Apparently the Labour Party would argue yes to your first question and indeed Hunt argues that those who disagree shouldn’t be in the profession at all.

I never mentioned those proposals, or anything about them when describing right wing entitlement, I don’t know why you think they had any relevance in replying to my post on page 4, someone else might describe them as a straw man.

5thElefant – Member

It is a great shame that libraries are closing indeed.

Why? They’re obsolete.

Another classic piece of moronic IDS-esque, utterly disjointed thinking so beloved of this administration. Appropriate when this thread was originally started about idiotically ideological tory ministers with an inflated idea of their own place, yet a fragile grasp of their actual brief

So at the same time as you’ve got the bald, god-bothering, military reject half-wit saying that from now on the new Universal Credit will be done entirely online (and it seems to going as brilliantly well as we’ve come to expect from big government IT projects), then what else should we do….?

Hmmmmmm … oh, oh, oh… I know…. We’ll close down all the places where people, say from poorer backgrounds, or the elderly, who won’t have internet connections at home, might be able to go for this valuable public access. We’ll shut all the libraries

Genius!!!! 🙄