Right I am definitely going to get a welder and attempt to weld the OEM shock brackets onto my caravan chassis.

Machine Mart has cheap welders – is it one of these situations where a cheapo one is no good? They deliver less current – that presumably means less heavy-duty welds…?

Cheap welders are absolutely fine. Just take your time and practise on something else first!

Going to!

It’s going to be a bit of a challenge. I promise I will take photos of the resulting burning caravan and post them up.

what are these brackets you are trying to weld?
No offence but if you know so little you dont even know which welder to get you probably should not be considering welding suspension components to something you will tow at 50 -60 mph.
Spitting out MIG welds that will stick is not that hard actually- a spitting metal glue gun effect fusing it and welding it considerably harder. For the cost of a welder and equipment [ and safety] I would get it done professionally]Ps I can weld and have done my own gas elecy etc in a house boat and welded up vans and caravans [ ie I hapily bodge and rarely pay peole to do stuff]but without training /serious practice I would resist. I have seen people who claim they can weld that I would not want to weld anything critical. See if you can make something water tight whilst practicing if you cant dont continue to the caravan – you can get stuff to do penetrative tests but not sure what it is called
Dont get an stick welder either
I would strongly advise against this

You’re local ish arent you?

Farnbrough collage do an evening class for about £250, not a qualification but when I asked the instructor said he’d probably get you upto the standard of being able to attempt a kit car but he’d leave suspension components to the experts.

Cheap welders are not fine. You need a powerful MIG welder to get a clean weld with good penetration in something as thick as a suspension part.

I can MIG weld OK, but would not weld a suspension component. Was happy putting brackets on things to hold bodywork etc on my race car. If I needed suspension stuff done I got a mate who is a professional welder to do it.

Advice on the welder though, don’t go for a cheap gasless one. Tell the guys in machine mart the thickness of metal you want to weld and they will recommend how much power you will need.

Edited to add, I love my automatic welding mask. Nothing worse than doing the perfect weld 10mm away from where you wanted it 🙂

No offence but if you know so little you dont even know which welder to get

Yeah yeah I know I know, I’m a looney, that’s all covered. (In fact I’m ambitious and also capable but not stupid. I know how to learn and I know when I’ve not learned)

Thickness is something I’m not sure about since I dunno how thick the metal is in the swingarm… That could be an issue and could require more expensive kit than I am prepared to buy…

Bear in mind the weld I would attempt is in no way structural, cos that would not be smart.

What’s the swingarm made of ? Its not cast is it ?

SHHHH he knows his limits and clearly does not require the considered advice of people who can weld
GO FOR IT YOU CAN DO ANYTHING YOU ARE POWERFUL VIRILE AND CLEVER WHAT COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG
Is Mrs Grip on mumsnet asking how best to talk you out of this 😉

You’ll need to find a gas supplier. I use CO2 Argon mix stuff sold as ‘Garage Gas’ from a local engineering supplier that is a reasonably big bottle with no rent and just £30 a refil.

As for welder you can’t really go wrong with a 180/210 amp mig welder. Check the lowest current setting (good for thin stuff) which should go down to 35/40ish if you want to do car bodywork. Some machines are silly high.

Dont forget to factor in the other costs aswell if you need to buy a 5kg reel of wire (£30), gas regulators (£50), Mask (£40), suitable wiring etc. I’m not sure on wiring but I think you need to be careful if your pulling 30A from the mains. My shed is wired with proper chunky stuff straight from the mains box.

A decent second hand non-hobby welder for 2/300 quid is probably the best thing to aim for.

Not forgetting the fire extinguisher, hose pipe and a fire watching friend with a couple of buckets of water to hand (that doesn’t get distracted).

Yep, been there done that few times! Clear the area around what your welding and make sure the carpet on the other side of what your welding isn’t on fire!!!

Also … dont ever angle grind near a car battery … I found that out recently when one went bang and lots of acid melted a hole through my shed floor!

dont buy a cheap mig plant its not worth the aggro

i hate welding without 3Phase. Find a local garage or fab shop and make friends

cheap mig welders and decent ones are a world apart. The problem you will have with doing a suspension mount is even if you are a good welder, access and position will be be horrid making the job even tougher. I can lay a good weld on a work bench but under a chassis, no chance.

I had a spanner short the battery terminals of a Mini once. There was a gallon of petrol in the boot too. The first nurse to see me wandered off looking shocked. I was amused to see that my incident at an autocross was refered to 30 years later in the Mini Register above the pic of the mini on fire.

Mmm.. yes.. the more I read about material the less confident I am actually, since I have no idea what the thing’s made of.

makes chicken noises 😉

Lol 🙂

The real problem is that I only have Easter weekend or one or two days either side to sort this out, otherwise it’s a long way to drive in Germany at 80km/h.

i have welded suspension stuf fbut have not welded seriously for about a decade and dont have any equipment I would just get someone to do it personally.

If your welding thick gauge steel you can get away with a lower current rated welder by adding chamfers to the edges of your joints. This helps obtain decent weld penetration. Best thing is to practice, practice, practice. It also worth while cutting your welding test pieces in half to ensure you are getting enough weld penetration and to assess the over all quality.

Mmm.. yes.. the more I read about material the less confident I am actually, since I have no idea what the thing’s made of.

Pfft. What’s the matter with you? Now go ahead and order the welder you know nothing about, use the skills you don’t yet have and weld that metal you are not sure what it is.

Give us a shout which roads you will be using though….might give them a miss 😉

Dont get an stick welder either
I would strongly advise against this

What’s wrong with stick welding? I’ve had a play with both and actually found stick to be great – certainly better for thicker pieces (unless you have 3 phase and a very powerful mig).
That said I was ‘playing’ (welding bits of my tractor impliments back together) and not welding stuff for use on a public road.

Mmm.. yes.. the more I read about material the less confident I am actually, since I have no idea what the thing’s made of.

Kinda critical to know what you’re welding….

Cheap welders don’t do low currents very well (think super thin body – down toward 20-30A needed for thin body), I’ve recently been butt welding 0.9mm steel sheet with a 40A min welder and it’s “fun”. Several areas have had to be cut back and re-done due to me chasing holes 🙂

Cast isn’t nice to weld, it requires great care and prep, probably outside DIY realms (and several pros I’ve spoken to have refused) if structural/safety critical – you need to get the material up to several hundred C and weld it when hot – got a kiln? 🙂 .

2-3mm sheet steel should be easy with a normal DIY gassed MIG, most people I’ve met who’ve used a gasless MIG have moaned about the quality of weld. If your swingarm is nice heavy formed sheet steel it should be a fairly decent job. Bear in mind that if, at the very least, you can beat it off with a hammer (the bracket!) without ripping the base material you’ve done a bad job lol.

But you’re a sensible chap, you know what you’re looking for etc so I’d suggest just having a practice on some scrap first.

Currently B&Q are selling off welding kit cheap as they’re EOLing it all.

try welding to 1mm rusty steel car/caravan plating with stick and let me know what you think of the results. Very easy to burn through thin metal chase holes and have a bigger mess than when you started. Great for thicker metal like you would find on atractor. IMHO the least skill required is to weld with stick on thick metal.

Mig welding is classed as semi skilled, stick welding(mma)is far more skilled. Mig is really easy in most positions whereas stick in all positions is much much harder. For welds where strength is critical we never ever use mig.

Cast isn’t nice to weld, it requires great care and prep, probably outside DIY realms (and several pros I’ve spoken to have refused) if structural/safety critical – you need to get the material up to several hundred C and weld it when hot – got a kiln?

The chassis maker supplies a kit of mounting brackets and specific instructions on how and where to weld it, so I’m assuming you don’t have to do much fancy stuff. The swingarm looks like two formed halves of pretty thick metal welded together. You get a nice firm ting ting when you tap it which is why I think it’s hard metal.

The other option is to drill and bolt it but it looks too hard to drill.

try welding to 1mm rusty steel car/caravan plating with stick and let me know what you think of the results.

Well, I wouldn’t use a stick for something that thin. The stuff I stick back together is 3mm or thicker.

Great for thicker metal like you would find on atractor.

… or a caravan chassis?

IMHO the least skill required is to weld with stick on thick metal.

that’ll be me then 🙂

Why don’t you use MIG for strength critical things Steviep? We always used MIG, TIG or the spot welder on critical parts

My experience of various techniques:

I’m a bit of a dab hand with oxy-acetylene but it heats and deforms large areas which is less than ideal, and isn’t especially strong. Air currents influence the flame and working upside down can be a pain – literally when spatter gets past your collar. On the cars I did most of the bodywork with gas as inaccurately cut and badly fitting parts can be fitted as you go along.

I did the engine mounts and suspension parts with a top of the range MIG in my sponsor’s place. Tack, use the heat from the tack to do any final forming with a hammer then run. Really easy to use once you’ve got used to the power setting and feed rate for a given thickness and volume of heat sink.

I never used the stick welder (because I was useless at it) but one of the mechanics was a genius with it and successfully repaired pre-heated cast iron cyclinder blocks with the right rods. It wasn’t used for suspension parts because the weld was often more brittle than the surrounding metal (unlike MIG or TIG).

steviep – Member

stick welding(mma)is far more skilled.

I had to be able to stick weld, down hand fillets and have the slag peel off it’s self along the run before I was allowed anywhere near a welding test as an apprentice,

Stick and Tig is where it’s at, although rusty chasis and the like I’d probably use Oxy-Acetylene, never liked mig, but none of the work we done used to spec it.

Someone who has never welded before, will be along soon to tell me that MIG is far superior though. Kind of like the last welding thread I replied on where it was decided that I never had to pass an ASME IX 6G test, because ASME was an American test house.

I’ve welded plenty and the cars that RRAT put together were held together with mainly MIG. TIG is better but MIG quite adequate.

Just to make sure I wasn’t talking rubbish or that RRAT were abunch of cowboys I had a Google which shows that MIG and TIG are the norm in motorsport.

molgrips – Member
Lol

The real problem is that I only have Easter weekend or one or two days either side to sort this out, otherwise it’s a long way to drive in Germany at 80km/h.

POSTED 8 HOURS AGO # REPORT-POST

The insurance liabilities of this project and the lives of your family and other road users seem to concern you very little ❗

(In fact I’m ambitious and also capable but not stupid. I know how to learn and I know when I’ve not learned

Worrying, very worrying 🙄

Friend was getting his van serviced during the week and the mech was telling him they have been very busy recently due to the fact some DIYvan owner had an accident after “servicing” his caravan himself From what he says the police are now clamping down on vaners who have not hadvans serviced by qualified dealers/mechs.

Is your chassis galvanised? Another issue to take into consideration if/when you do attempt this.

Having qualified and worked as a motor mech, done some body work stuff and a welding course I doubt very much if your welding will be good enough no matter how confident you are. Takes lots of practice, lots.
I now work in an industrial environment and regularly see welds done by experienced welders fail when tested.

Remember to remove the gas bottles to a safe distance/place and purge/bleed all gas using appliances, or ➡

From what he says the police are now clamping down on vaners who have not hadvans serviced by qualified dealers/mechs

Sounds like scaremongering to me.
What legal requirement is there to have a caravan professionally serviced ?
What qualifications are there for caravan maintenance ?

Back to the original question.
Never used a gasless welder, but from what I’ve heard, they aren’t much good.
Biggest problem I’ve found with cheap welders is inadequate cooling. Weld for 1 minute, wait 3 minutes for it to cool down. Repeat. A better machine will run non stop all day.
Mig welding is by far the easiest to learn and most versatile.
Don’t try to mig weld cast iron.
Don’t try to weld rust. Grind it till it’s shiny at least 10mm all around the weld area.
Practice a lot before you weld something safety critical like a suspension component.
Practice on a bench before you try welding upside down in a confined space like under a caravan wheel arch.

What qualifications are there for caravan maintenance ?

Socks with sandals?

The insurance liabilities of this project and the lives of your family and other road users seem to concern you very little

Were you reading the above?

The van has been 20 years without shocks. If the shock mounts fall off, the shocks will stay dangling under the van safely out of harms way (with the fail-safe system I put in) so nothing bad will happen.

Like I say I’m not stupid.

And I’m not going to do it now due to what I’ve learned through this thread and even more extensive googling.

See?

Love this thread. classic STW

Mol listen to junk yard, he seems to know what hes talking about.

I liked this bit ‘ You get a nice firm ting ting when you tap it which is why I think it’s hard metal’. And that is why you should not pick up a weld set to carry out this job