I am not from your country but i am surprised that there is resistance to those who wish to remember those who died fighting for their country. I too will remember my people who died half way around the world, trying to build something that would be remembered for ever. My ancestor died in this endeavour, yet others would sully his efforts. You have nomidea of the meaning of honour

I wonder how many of the keyboard warriors on the “other” thread would mouth off the same faced with some of those veterans and their families

Some would probably still try.

Here’s a thought – just because I have opinions, and some of them are deeply held, there might be occasions on which it would be respectful and appropriate to keep them to myself. Too many people nowadays think that just because they are entitled to an opinion, they must ram it down throats whenever possible.

I dare say some of the soldiers killed on the Somme, for example, would have some fairly pithy views on the point of it all (especially those conscripted). They didn’t get the chance to, though, and that’s the point – respect sometimes means holding your tongue.

Sometimes it says more about a person if they stay quiet!

I would like to thank all those who have stood up and sacrificed in order that I can express my opinion freely without any physical threat of violence that would prevent me from doing so.
I would like to thank all of those who, while disagreeing with me, permit me to express my opinion freely.
Thank you for fighting on my behalf.

Not by me you won’t. Stats suggest that serving in Afghanistan is about as dangerous as working on a farm in terms of deaths per annum. Cannot recall when last our local high street was closed to remember the farmers who died putting food on our tables.

The trolls are out in force then? The armed forces past, present and future deserve our unwavering respect, regardless of political issues – they should not detract from rememberance day. This day is to remember those who have sacrificed all for the protection of our country, and the upholding of values we rightfully want (world or nationwide).

John Thorold Foulger, one of my ancestors.

I never knew him as he was killed way before my time and way before it should have been ‘his time’. He had no choice, he was sent to war. He never got the chance to see future generations of our family. So many, too many, young men met the same fate.

We knew that John died when he was 21 in the First World War had information that he was killed at Delvewood in France. With this in mind, we set about finding out a bit more. This is what we have found out so far……

John Thorold Foulger
Lance Corporal, Queen’s Own (Royal West Kent Regiment), 1st Battalion
Service Number L/10817
Died 22/07/1916
Buried at Caterpillar Valley Cemetery, Longueval in the Somme region of France.
Grave is IX.E.14

From research (from the Royal West Regiment history), it seems likely that John was killed somewhere near High Wood or Delville Wood in the Somme region in France.

Longueval is a village approximately 13 kilometres east of Albert and 10 kilometres south of Bapaume. Caterpillar Valley Cemetery lies a short distance west of Longueval on the south side of the road to Contalmaison.

Caterpillar Valley was the name given by the army to the long valley which rises eastwards, past “Caterpillar Wood”, to the high ground at Guillemont. The ground was captured, after very fierce fighting, in the latter part of July 1916, so it seems likely that John was killed during this battle, especially as he was laid to rest in Caterpillar Valley Cemetery.
Caterpillar Valley was lost in the German advance of March 1918 and recovered by the 38th (Welsh) Division on 28 August 1918, when a little cemetery was made (now Plot 1 of this cemetery) containing 25 graves of the 38th Division and the 6th Dragoon Guards. After the Armistice, this cemetery was hugely increased when the graves of more than 5,500 officers and men were brought in from other small cemeteries, and the battlefields of the Somme. The great majority of these soldiers died in the autumn of 1916 and almost all the rest in August or September 1918. CATERPILLAR VALLEY CEMETERY now contains 5,569 Commonwealth burials and commemorations of the First World War. 3,796 of the burials are unidentified but there are special memorials to 32 casualties known or believed to be buried among them, and to three buried in McCormick’s Post Cemetery whose graves were destroyed by shell fire. On the east side of the cemetery is the CATERPILLAR VALLEY (NEW ZEALAND) MEMORIAL, commemorating more than 1,200 officers and men of the New Zealand Division who died in the Battles of the Somme in 1916, and whose graves are not known. This is one of seven memorials in France and Belgium to those New Zealand soldiers who died on the Western Front and whose graves are not known. The memorials are all in cemeteries chosen as appropriate to the fighting in which the men died. Both cemetery and memorial were designed by Sir Herbert Baker.

Lest we forget

Was working on F wing this morning, came over the net that there’d be a 2 minute silence at 11 (a prisoner had already written it on the board, ‘shut the **** up at 11 for 2 minutes’ or words to that effect) At 11 when it came over the net I shouted, ‘2 minutes silence please!’ I was surprised when 2 games of pool stopped mid stride, 4 black lads playing dominoes kept playing but didn’t speak & placed their dominoes down quietly (instead of slamming them down, as they do) & the wing went quieter than I’d heard it for a long time. The only one’s who kept yapping were 4 travelling lads playing cards & some asians who turned their music up.
Respect to those who respect.

I went today, mostly for the uncle I never knew who died in Korea.

I wear a poppy, and not just for the dead.

My great uncle is now 94, and still living with PTSD caused by spending a lot of his time in service working on the Burma Railway as a Japanese POW. He also has to live with the guilt he feels about being one of the lucky few to survive the experience.

The pain has stopped,
For I am dead.
My time on earth is done.
But in a hundred years from now, I will still be twenty-one.
My brief, sweet life is over,
My eyes no longer see,
No summer walks,
No Christmas trees,
No pretty girls for me.
I’ve got the chop, I’ve had it.
My nightly ops are done.

Yet in another hundred years, I’ll still be twenty-one.

(Epitaph from “”Ode to an Airman” by Sgt R.W. Gilbert, M/UG on Halifaxes with 158 Squadron)

Epitaph from “”Ode to an Airman” by Sgt R.W. Gilbert, M/UG on Halifaxes with 158 Squadron)

Brought a tear to my eye as i remember a long lost uncle A D-DAY VET.
WILLIAM LANE
Plus my farther RIP .ROBERT TURNER.
WE WILL REMEMBER THEM.

Rode down to the local cenotaph today as my nephew was carrying the flag for his cadet unit. I was pleasantly surprised at the turnout (reckon a couple of hundred people) in what isn’t a military town.

Restored a little bit of faith in my fellow man particularly as so many are ignorant of the sacrifices made. My great grandfather survived the First World War but my great uncle died aged 21 as a sergeant pilot over Germany in World War Two.

I won’t forget

http://flt-sgt-wh-good-not-forgotten.weebly.com/index.html

If anyone is interested in his story follow the link above.

the best tribute you could have to the war dead is to stop the arms trade, of which britian is a massive contributer. not this jingoistic nonsense we get every year.

At 11:00AM I was standing silently in the middle of the Beacons. I wear the poppy proudly, thankful that because of others my family has a peaceful life. I am a teacher and regularly get asked to act as a referee for youngsters wanting to join up. It really is thought provoking.

the best tribute you could have to the war dead is to stop the arms trade, of which britian is a massive contributer. not this jingoistic nonsense we get every year.

There was another thread which would have been more apt for that kind of comment, you should have posted on that one..

This one if for those who chose to remember..

Please be respectful.

edit, infact i canny even be bothered.

what’s the point in preaching to the converted?

This isnt the thread for that, this isnt what this ones about.

Please be respectful.

Ive nothing further to add.

Goodnight.

The trolls are out in force then? The armed forces past, present and future deserve our unwavering respect, regardless of political issues – they should not detract from rememberance day. This day is to remember those who have sacrificed all for the protection of our country, and the upholding of values we rightfully want (world or nationwide).

Okay, you and others asked for this – what about remembering all the war dead – that I feel so many are forgetting. Oh but we must put our armed forces up and on a pedestal and bask in their glory, anyone who doesn’t is akin to a paedo.

What about all those massacre’s that the British Army are known for? What **** values did the Para’s in Bloody Sunday uphold again, what values did the British soldiers involved in the Mau Mau uprising uphold, what values did our soldiers uphold in the Boer war, what values did our soldiers uphold in the Opium War? Oh but they deserve our unwavering respect regardless, we must all bow down to social pressure. Just about the only truly just war in the past 5 centuries has been WW2 and arguably a few of the Balkan shit throwing contests.

Check out the last Tommy’s views on the poppy and perhaps Robert Fisks grandfathers, both of which held very similar views to my veteran grandparents and uncles. http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/commentators/fisk/robert-fisk-do-those-who-flaunt-the-poppy-on-their-lapels-know-that-they-mock-the-war-dead-6257416.html.

Here’s a thought – just because I have opinions, and some of them are deeply held, there might be occasions on which it would be respectful and appropriate to keep them to myself. Too many people nowadays think that just because they are entitled to an opinion, they must ram it down throats whenever possible.

Yeah that would be a start, maybe some of the more jingoistic poppy wearers should shut it as well. It’s like living in the bible belt of America – wear your proppy but I don’t want to hear your views rammed down my throat on the news, in the papers, in public, or at parties.

P.S The pics for all the red faced angry patriots that will now post that they want to knock me out and defeat the original interwar point of the poppy. Also, I donated to the RBL but I won’t be caught dead wearing poppy seeing what I feel it’s come to represent.

This one if for those who chose to remember..

I chose to remember, others in this thread have clearly made opinions about how remembrance should be done. If you guys didn’t want someone to dispute that, it shouldn’t have been posted.

Fisk’s article is rather histrionic, imo.

It’s perfectly possible to wear a poppy and grasp the complexity of history. Just as it’s perfectly possible to honour the memory of the dead and despise the ease with which politicians send soldiers to war. If Fisk feels he has to stamp his own views on it, in a tone of almost Daily Wail outrage, that’s his business paycheck.

Heartened to see that nobody gives a ****what bwaarp thinks ! 😆

Who?

I choose this time to remember members of my family who fought to defend their people when the invaders came, and fought to resist them when they stayed, then they fought to liberate themselves when the imperialist arrived and displaced the invaders, then they fought to free themselves of the imperialists and the invaders came back and they fought for their freedom once more. Eventually, after many years of sacrifice, they were given back their country. Many died for this freedom, I chose to remember them.

From my 7 year old yesterday while watching the remembrance ceremony on the telly:

“Daddy, if they’re all so sad about people who die in wars, why do they keep starting them?”.

esselgruntfuttock – Member
Was working on F wing this morning, came over the net that there’d be a 2 minute silence at 11 (a prisoner had already written it on the board, ‘shut the **** up at 11 for 2 minutes’ or words to that effect) At 11 when it came over the net I shouted, ‘2 minutes silence please!’ I was surprised when 2 games of pool stopped mid stride, 4 black lads playing dominoes kept playing but didn’t speak & placed their dominoes down quietly (instead of slamming them down, as they do) & the wing went quieter than I’d heard it for a long time. The only one’s who kept yapping were 4 travelling lads playing cards & some asians who turned their music up.
Respect to those who respect.

When i read the first couple of lines, I thought “he works in a jail”, then I realised I was wrong and you were talking about the local youth-club. 😉

4 black lads playing dominoes kept playing but didn’t speak & placed their dominoes down quietly

Well, that’s good to hear.

The only one’s who kept yapping were 4 travelling lads playing cards & some asians who turned their music up.
Respect to those who respect.

I think it might be a strange situation for such a group. It seems that Remembrance is for remembering the British and Commonwealth servicemen who died in the wars. In such a situation, they might have felt excluded. I mean it would depend if they were from a Commonwealth country or not. But it must be a complex situation, with complex emotions, in which an occupying force recruited locals to fight to maintain their position over the local population.

My grandfather was called up as an 18 year old conscript in WW2. He served in the north Atlantic and mediterranean convoys. His destroyer torpedoed by a U-boat, surviving only because he dived off the side and was picked up by another vessel. He has a piece of shrapnel in his side to this day. He was on the ship that relieved Changi jail, when his navy officers shot Allied POWs in the head to put them out of their misery.

He thought (sadly, dementia is now too advanced for this sort of conversation any more) that WW2 was mainly frightened young men doing what they were told and that Remembrance Sunday is a load of jingoistic nonsense that glorifies war.

Of course, other veterans feel differently, but I suspect my grandfather’s view is more common than one might suppose from media coverage of Remembrance day.

On my 18th birthday I was chatting to one of the old regulars in the local football club where I worked as a barman. On my next shift behind the bar he showed me a faded picture of him on his 18th…in the picture he was a skinny, grinning lad wearing shorts and holding a rifle. He signed up when he was 17 and ended up in North Africa, he got a bit emotional when he was telling me about the other people in the picture. They were all of roughly some of the same age, mostly volunteers, but many of the people in the picture ended up buried by him and the rest of his squad somewhere in Africa.

I have the greatest respect for people who make the sacrifices that the armed forces do, particularly those who fought in WW1/WW2.

My maternal grandfather was in the Royal Artillery in WW2, and his wife was in the Auxiliary Territorial Service stationed in France. According to my grandmother, after the war my grandfather was never the same…she believed this is due to what he saw after being involved in the liberation of Bergen-Belsen.

In response to the ‘anti-remembrance brigade’; I have absolutely no time for people who are using the sacrifices of the armed forces to further their own political agendas*.

*to answer the inevitable “what about the political agendas of Blair/Bush and their war-mongering” – you’re missing the point.

Before the inevitable flaming starts, I would start by saying that I lost my paternal Grandfather on the Somme, and my family is still dealing with the aftermath of that to this day. My wifes father was a Japanese Pow during WW2 and her side of the family are likewise still dealing with that.

Personally, and with very limited exceptions, I think the best way to honour our war dead is to turn upon any Government worldwide that rattles sabres and looks to resolve disputes through force with one voice and villify them, impose sanctions or whatever else we can do other than start a punch up. I think that is at the nub of the issue regarding militaristic celebrations of our war dead. There are those, myself included who do get a tad uptight about anything that seems to glorify, justify or nullify the horror of warfare, which fairly often these rememberance day things can do.

I would not however, choose that day or indeed some poor sods funeral to put that view forward.