can i transfer my debt to the new system please?
I am sure if you offer to pay the current level of fees they will let you
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Was Uni Worth it?
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I am sure if you offer to pay the current level of fees they will let youPosted 1 year ago # -
really?! - ace! - where do i sign?!
Posted 1 year ago # -
pretty interesting thread!
Posted 1 year ago # -
For me it was. Went back to uni as a mature student to do software. Now working in software. Would not have got my job without a degree.
I think that so many people have degrees these days if you don't have one then you don't even get a chance at an inerview to at least get your foot in the door.Posted 1 year ago # -
would I have gone to uni if faced with the level of debt that will result from £9000 fees? No, probably not. I had no parental support
It's a bit pointless looking at the number of pounds of debt. What's important is the amount you have to repay, which is most likely peanuts.
If the number puts you off then you really need some education I think
Posted 1 year ago # -
I'm not sure how useful my having a degree was, however what I learned at uni was a very good grounding for my career and has server we well in the last 20+ years.
My major at uni was computer science, studied in the late 80's. Despite more or less never actually having used any of the languages etc. that I was taught the course did give me a very good insight into how to develop and how computers work. IT has been a good career so far (and fairly lucrative), including allowing me to spend several years working overseas in places like Hong Kong, Germany and other parts of Europe. Once my kids have both left school then there is a good chance I'll head overseas again - quite fancy either the States or Australia/New Zealand this time.
Posted 1 year ago # -
University, and getting my bachelors degree. Best decision I ever made in my life.
why should people who haven't been to university PAY for universities? - that doesn't seem fair to me
A fair point because the recipient benefits the most. But the benefits of university are partly societal. Many businesses could not function without graduates. Those graduates buy stuff and services, supporting jobs for non-graduates. In addition, society benefits from having some more educated people in it.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Yes, if you do a good course at a good place, and use your time there properly. The days when it was like the Young Ones are over. To get the full benefits you need to lay off the alcohol and drugs, work your butt off on the course to get a good result, you participate in sports and extracurricular stuff, you meet as many people as you can, and in your summers you do vacation schemes.
The only people at my university (Oxbridge) who did the whole "wayyy party party party, lets have cheese on toast at 4am and have tearful heart to hearts in our PJs, aren't university days wonderful, la de da" thing were kids with the option of parental bailout if they couldn't secure a good job on graduation. The people who were actually interested in a bit of social mobility kept their heads down and worked their asses off, it was pretty ruthless and harder work than my actual job now (which is hard too).
Can't stand the people on here saying uni's pointless in and of itself, as if it's got nothing to do with what the students put into it.
Posted 1 year ago # -
If the number puts you off then you really need some education I think
Please note at least 75% are expected to be worse off or no better off ...this is the govts own calculations. I dont know why those who think this is better mock those who challenge this view as lacking the ability to use or understand numbers/money. Paying less per month for longer may be easier to manage but it is not paying less overall for the majority of borrowers.
Graduates who have completed their studies and become one of the country's higher earners will make a higher contribution towards the cost of their education. That is because as their earning rise, so will the rate of interest applied to their loan balance.
Graduates will not make a contribution towards tuition costs until they are earning at least £21,000, up from the current £15,000. The repayment will be 9% of income above £21,000, and all outstanding repayments will be written off after 30 years. This means all graduates will pay less per month than they do under the current system. The £21,000 earnings threshold will also be uprated annually in line with earnings from April 2016 (when the majority of students who commence a three year degree course in September 2012 will become liable to repay.
In order to make the system financially sustainable, a real rate of interest will be charged on loan repayments, but with a progressive taper:
For graduates earning below £21,000, there will be no real rate of interest applied to their loan.
For graduates earning between £21,000 and around £41,000, a real rate of interest will start to be charged, reaching a maximum of RPI plus 3%.
Above £41,000, graduates will repay at the maximum, rate of RPI plus 3%.
Under our new more progressive repayment system, around a quarter of graduates, those with the lowest lifetime earnings, will pay less than under the current system.The Government is committed to the progressive nature of the repayment system. It will consult on potential early repayment mechanisms so that people on high incomes are not able to unfairly buy themselves out of this progressive system. These mechanisms would need to ensure that graduates on modest incomes who strive to pay their contribution early through regular payments are not penalised.
Posted 1 year ago # -
I dont know why those who think this is better mock those who challenge this view as lacking the ability to use or understand numbers/money
I'm not mocking the breakdown of who's better off ultimately. I am questioning those who say 'ooh x amount of debt' when it could well mean tiny repayments.
Can't see many disadvantages myself. But then I am not afraid of credit for certain applications.
Posted 1 year ago # -
at least 75% are expected to be worse off or no better off
Thats selective wording - if the poorest 25% are better off, then thats got to be a good thing, surely!
Personally, I get the feeling that certain, well targeted or established degree courses are clearly going to be highly beneficial, and as an Employer, I'd likely be as impressed by someone with a good degree in the classics from Oxford as someone who'd done a specialised career related degree, whereas I'd be more likely to employ someone with a good post 16 employment record than a 2.2 in media studies from Scumbag university. I think its impossible to consider a degree per-se as a good or a bad career move, its got to depend on the degree and the job itself.
Posted 1 year ago # -
University for me was far more about what it enabled me to experience, who I experienced it with, and what I learnt about myself.
To be fair though, I made damned sure I actually left with a degree (2:2 in Technology Management, a BEng) at the end of it all though. Meant I had to really pull my socks up in the final year, but no way was I wasting my time, effort and money to leave with nothing (like so many people I know who became slightly too much of a social animal!).
Would I go now? Well I was the first year of fee paying students anyway, though they were only around £1k per year back then. Now it's really got to be taken a LOT more seriously before considering your life choice, as only a very elite minority with very rich parents are going to go to Uni and not leave financially crippled in some way.
Elfinsafety does have a good point (badly worded, and as usual resorting to name calling and being offensive at the merest hint of someone not agreeing with him) in that it shouldn't all be about the commercial aspect. If it were, we'd ALL be doing business studies or economics degrees, and where would that lead us? Arts degrees are very relevant still, as are much more vocational degrees, as are science degrees and many of the more traditional subjects too. But it really does need to be something you WANT to do, and broaden your knowledge in.
Sadly, with that in mind, too many people still go to University with the same mindset that I had, which was "a degree is better than no degree". And when I went, though it wasn't free, fees were relatively small, and prospects relatively good. These days, leave without a minimum 2:1 from a good uni and your prospects are no better than if you hadn't gone to uni, and you will end up with loads of debt whichever way you cut it.
My advice to any 18 year old right now considering going to uni, but unsure about what they wanted to do would be to wait... Time is an amazing thing. The most satisfied students I've ever met have all been mature students (whether starting their degree at 21, just 3 years older than the norm, or 70, or anywhere inbetween) as some time spent experiencing life and finding out a few things about yourself, before committing to Uni, can often be VERY well spent. I'd love to go back to Uni now at 30, knowing what I do about myself and my interests, and what I want to achieve. Sadly I couldn't afford it just now... Maybe in time... And as for the OU argument, whilst I believe it is a valid learning experience for some, most of us benefit much greater from learning with our peers I believe. And the social aspect is not to be ignored either!
Posted 1 year ago # -
not leave financially crippled in some way
Crippled? The examples above are £17/mo, that's not crippled is it?
Waiting - not a bad idea I suppose but what would I have done on leaving uni? Can't think of a job I'd have enjoyed in my local area tbh.
Posted 1 year ago # -
"The people who were actually interested in a bit of social mobility kept their heads down and worked their asses off"
I agree. My degree allowed me to escape (sort of) my working-class background and aspire to things I dreamed of as a child e.g working in the Space Exploration business. None of that would have been possible if I had continued working at Sainsbury's, instead of reading for a degree.
There isn't a single Engineer in my company that does not have at least a first degree, and many have 2 or PHDs.
Posted 1 year ago # -
I know. I sort of think if you even have to ask, you're looking at the wrong courses or the wrong institutions.
A degree in say history from a good university is worth it
A degree in engineering from a less good university is (I bet) worth it (I don't know, I'm not an engineer)
A degree in say history from a less good university is not worth it
As in most things, it's the grey areas in between that are difficult.
Posted 1 year ago # -
If the debt issue weeds out some of the less committed, it'll be a good thing tbh.
The Major govt (wasn't it?) making everyone go to 'university' was a mistake I reckon. Training yes, university no. The area is completely confused now and lacks a lot of focus. I cannot think of a reason why anyone other than students the highly academic or theoretical subjects should go to uni.
Everyone would be happier if people got vocational or on the job training to the required level - even if that were a really high practical level. Practically minded students would get their hands dirty; employers would be in charge of what their students learnt and be able to make it much more useful; and the govt should have to cover far fewer loans for tuition and living expenses.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Who do you think pays for on the job training and apprenticeships? Mostthings cannot be taught purely on the job except for low level stuff like admin
Many are trained in colleges because they cannot get industry placements [jobs] and we train people to be a mechanic or work in animal care with little hope of finding actual employment in these fields. we have a huge oversupply of labour to jobs a massive one in many areas. [child care, hairdressing, construction, beauty etc]
employers would be in charge of what their students learnt and be able to make it much more useful;
excellent let them pay for the training they require then rather than us. We make students pay for degrees but then pay for the training for [in some cases] billion profitted multinationals [ Mc donalds for example] - actually many of the more astute ones actually have their own training academies to claim the fees themselves - rather than via college- and actually get free training and make a profit on it. We may be subsisising the wrong folk IMHO. You are correct it is a disjointed approach.
Apprenticeships/vocational training depends on the availability of jobs which are not always there and alone is not a solution unless the jobs exist in which case why does industry not train its own folk?
CITB do a reasonable job in construction to be fair via levvies.Posted 1 year ago # -
Apprenticeships/vocational training depends on the availability of jobs which are not always there
An excellent point.
Posted 1 year ago # -
actually many of the more astute ones actually have their own training academies to claim the fees themselves - rather than via college- and actually get free training and make a profit on it. We may be subsisising the wrong folk IMHO.
I used to work for a training firm (doing work with lots of local manufacturing businesses). Our company rightly got paid on the successful completion of the candidates passing their coursework/portfolios. Doesn't stop the companys (though it is better now than it used to be) registering every one of its employees to go through the same training course too (even though we were all significantly higher in ability already, hence we were doing the training) to claim upwards of £1k back on its bottom line for every one of us staff.
There are LOTS of loopholes in the training world, and there are many manu unscrupulous companies out there looking to exploit them!
Sad really, as those trying to make a quick/easy buck are spoiling it for the rest, as they're fudging the figures which makes govt. sponsored training schemes look like a waste of money, which in turn leads to the govt. pulling out a big chunk of funding. Which in turn has contributed to 2 of my 4 redundancies inside the last 2 1/2 years!
Posted 1 year ago # -
Junkyard - Member
Please note at least 75% are expected to be worse off or no better off ...this is the govts own calculations
those calculations are wrong - i've seen them, they're hilarious!
i've recently recieved a statement from the student loans company:
i graduated in 2002 owing £12,000.
and after paying for 9 years, i owe £11,000. My repayments are so small they barely exceed the interest. i don't expect to pay it off in the next 21 years.
i'd be £600/year better off under the new system. and i earn a very representative salary.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Whats needed is a cap on over subscribed uni courses, and the lack of proper jobs assosiated withthem, also wahts wrong with doing a degeree part time at night or day realease, the old sandwich course etc.
So if you want to do a degreein english you find a comapny to sponsor you, they pay your course fees and you work for them in the ample holidays you get, you then agre to satay withthem and put something back into their company for a few years.
It used to work that way with bus and lorry driving , you applied for a job, got trained and worked for the company for 2 years, if you left you agreeed to pay back the training costs.
Posted 1 year ago # -
My Uni experience was largely a waste of time, dropped out after a year and the only thing I had to show for it was a bit of debt and a police caution (I fully embraced the student life :p ). Met some good people there but not in contact with any of them these days.
Not regretted not having a degree since, working in IT they're not really relevant for most jobs although can be used as an easy filter. If I'd wanted to do the whole management fast-track thing then I guess I would have needed one but the management part of my job is the bit I hate most so not regretted that I didn't fast-track either...
Posted 1 year ago # -
I went twice
Once at 18 I dropped out, still worth every penny as I met the most amazing people and gained a lot of life experience. Spent 5 years in Bournemouth.
Second was as a 'mature' student at 23 - passed and that has also got me to where I am today. I am in senior management of a major company and I probably wouldn't employ someone now without a degree.
Posted 1 year ago # -
It's a choice you have to make individually surely. If you do a pointless degree with no career prospects in a field you don't really enjoy and won't use then you can't really claim university isn't worth it - your choices were poor.
I personally chose a degree I enjoyed, got into a job I can't do without it and a postgrad degree and enjoy doing and while financially it probably hasn't made much difference up to now, I love doing what i do where I do it, and that can't be obtained elsewhere.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Given the chance, I would not have gone to Uni (left with nothing... which kind of puts me in both camps - student loan + no degree!!).
Wished someone had sat down with me, and explained what other options there were..... perhaps it was a pride thing from my family? You don't have any other choice but University/degree?
Despite no degree, I'm still in a strong technical position within the IT industry. Got here through hard work, starting at the bottom (1st line telephone tech support! Yay!)
I accept that in some professions, a Degree is an essential requirement - but I hope GCSE/A-level students today have more guidance and information than I did.
To the OP : Who said you have to pay for their University? That's what student loans are for + part time jobs. It *doesn't* have to cost you a penny.
Posted 1 year ago # -
It's all about developing the mind. Which, if you have the aptitude for what's in store, is worth it at any price.Which is lovely if you have a nice middle class family background to fall back on. When you've no safety net at all, you tend to think a bit more about the bottom line. Where will I live and how will I eat were fairly high on my agenda, thinking is a bit further down the pyramid of needs.
xiphon are you my clone?
Posted 1 year ago # -
i wouldn't study in the UK again. In fact, i'm not going to. It has been a good experience, but if my uni ...
1) gave a damn about students
2) helped those who needed help
3) knew how to teach and support
... it would have been more beneficial to mePosted 1 year ago # -
or if you knew how to learn.
Posted 1 year ago #
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