I'd wager Turner are a lot bigger than Orange. Bare in mind not many Orange's make it outside the UK…

Dunno- Im neither a fan or detractor of Orange. I love the 'lets hate spesh' though. Good solid products that sell by the bucketload. Plus the long warranties shows their commitment to customer service.

I don't hate spesh, I bought my wife one…

Just used as an example as they're big and offer lifetime warranty yet have a nice history of that warranty actually being needed.

I've broken plenty of oranges in my time. They've always been warrantied, and I've had no real complaints about them. To be honest, I've broken pretty much every bike I've ever owned, and I've still gone back to Orange. They just suit my riding style perfectly, and look great (in an industrial sort of way). When I've had other bikes, I've always found myself lusting after oranges…

yet have a nice history of that warranty actually being needed.

because they sell soo much more than others when one breaks you tend to hear more?

I'm riding a 2009 5 at the moment. It's very difficult for me to find a flaw in this bike. I ride mainly cross country on it because of where I live but in the summer I had it tearing down reds (and some easier blacks) in the Pyrenees in the summer. I can't think of many bikes that are as versatile, and with it's simple design, as reliable. Mine weighs in at just under 28lbs without pedals (16"). The Head Angle on the '09 is slightly slacker than previous years, but it could be claimed that it hinders you ever so slightly on the ups, it helps you enjoy the downs much more.
I wanted something that was fairly light with fun handling. I was in a fortunate position where the cost of the bike wasn't really an issue when I was buying the five. It came down to a choice between the five and a Yeti 575. Although I preferred the look of the Yeti, the simple single pivot design won me over for longevity and ease of service.
Buy a Pro with Fox RLC's and chuck away the Mountain Kings for your favourite set up and you've got the perfect bike.
Another plus point for me was that it was handbuilt in England, and while the country was in the throws of recession, it made me feel better to spend my thousands on a bike that was built by a tax paying Englishman, rather than by a poor Asian in a sweat shop who was working for peanuts so the American owner can make as much profit as possible.
When I'm riding my Orange, I get the feeling I'm mounted on a modern classic. Just like people bang on about the Klein's and Fat Chance's of the early 90's, I think people will talk about these Orange Five's just as fondly…

on the warranty side, GaryLake has it spot on re the numbers game. When i was buying my 5 in 2008 I had read a few stories re warranties etc, and I spoke to Orange about it. They gave me a very helpful description of the situation and it is exactly as Gary says.

Love my 5 and I have no desire to change it after 18 months riding, which is a first for me..

I've had my Five for about 18 months now and in that time ridden all day XC, trail centres and uplift days in the UK on it, plus it's been out to the Alps for a week and B.C. for a couple of weeks.

I've previously owned single pivot and VPP frames and I've also got a Faux Bar Turner Flux.

In a nutshell the Five is a good jack of all trades bike, I don't find it particularly shines anywhere, it's just a good solid bike. In reliability terms it eclipses a friends Santa Cruz Heckler, which in the same time has ridden exactly the same stuff but has been through three axle kits and a couple of lower shock bushings.

As for the ride, I've ridden it uphill with the Propedal off and not even noticed and that's with flat pedals. You get an awful lot more feedback from a single pivot frame I find, but that's a good thing and you can use it to your advantage.

My Five certainly feels much quicker out of corners than any other bike I've owned and it's the only bike I'm comfortable doing jumps on.

The downsides;

I've found are that the long head tube contributes to the bike feeling a lot bigger than it is.

It's not very efficient under braking at the rear end because the back end tends to stiffen up and break traction. But that's something a good rider (i.e. not me) can get to grips with easily and only an issue on big Alpine downhills for me.

The frame dents very easily, but none of my dents have lead to failures or cracks (yet!).

With a Fox 36 up front the head angle will be way slack at 66 degrees. For 2009 they slackened the head angle to 67 degrees when running a 140mm fork where as mine is the steep 2008 model with a 68.5 degree head angle.

I run Van 32's up front and to be honest only on one occasion have I wanted for a slacker head angle, but that was riding down something you'd think twice about walking down without a rope;-)

Get a decent test ride on one though, as an all round trail bike I think they're very, very hard to beat.

Ive just been in my LBS to straighten out my rear wheel and stood next to a Lapierry 2010 model (514?) – not sure how that rides but if they EVER start selling as a frame only…..that'll be my next purchase…

I've a 2009 Five with Fox 36 Talas forks. I gotta admit, I'm glad of the adjustment sometimes on steeper climbs – dropping the travel to 130 just stops that slightly drifty feeling from the front. On the other hand, I've had lots of big days out where I've not touched the dial.

Regarding pedal bob – I do feel a little with propedal off. I rarely do turn it off, though – usually only for long downhills. With it on, I've never noticed any bob.

Take one for a demo ride – I simply fell in love. I was looking for a single pivot full susser after having all sorts of problems with multiple links, and I'd tried a Heckler the week before – the Five blew it away.

just been into dartmoor cycles and they have a five reduced from £2000 to £1500. not sure of the frame size or spec level though.

it is green though.

Fancy that….a flat suface doesn't deflect a rock quite so well as the round profile of a tube

I've never dented any frame in all the years of riding (cracked one but never dented). However the rocks seem to fly up and hit the underside of the frame on a regular basis, too regular. The old Heckler was known for its low BB- I never had any rock strikes when riding that. Like I said- Im not 'dissing' the Five- if you had put a different title on this thread you'd attract more votes for different frames including the Lapierre Zesty 314 or 514.

Another potential critism is I find the slacker angles of the 09 make the bike too long- its even harder for nervous riders like me to turn (switchbacks etc) – great for fast straightish speed but not for tighter more technical turns. The Intense with a steeper head angle would be better for faster steering response? In conclusion if you want something more chuckable and your more talented I'd go for something else. My 3-4months of riding on mine kinda confirms some of the comments in the official mag-tests- Great for novices/nervous riders.

Buy a Cannondale Prophet. Single pivot, rides like a Five, cheaper to buy and the manufacturer actually has faith in their product and offers a decent warranty.

BTW for all those who 'know how warranties work', don't give me that tosh about volume of sales etc. So what if Specialized can afford to replace the occasional broken one from the profits of all the ones that don't break. As a customer, how the warranty is worked out is not an issue, just the fact there is a warranty.

Oh and no I don't ride a Cannondale Prophet (but have ridden a few, as well as Orange 5's), so no brand bias here. Can't say the same for others though.

However the rocks seem to fly up and hit the underside of the frame on a regular basis, too regular.

How is the frame design going to significantly effect the frequency of rocks being thrown up from the front wheel? Think about what you are saying!

pypdjl agree and maybe its my choice of fork (140mm Revs) hence a lower bb? but I most certainly dont remember hearing clanks and thunks reverberating through the frame on a regular basis? Maybe it does happen regularly on other frames but you hear it louder on the five due to its box-sections with voids inside to amplify? I dont know, I jsut hear it and think 'ouch'!

My '05 Pro has been round trailcentres, up Munroes, on overnight epics and down 4X tracks virtually every weekend for almost five years. I replaced the Conti tyres because worryingly they kept coming off the rims at high speed, and the bar and stem to make the cockpit more comparable to my DH bike. It's had new DU bushes on the shock, and TFT have given the forks and shock the once over – that's it. It may be a bit agricultural with it's single pivot, and bangs and rattles – but it flies.

I'm keen to build up a new 5" project in time for the spring, but in all honesty there's nothing wrong with the bike/frame I've got. Might get a Blood just to mix things up a bit.

Not sure about 5s but my mate snapped both dropouts clean off his '05 Patriot 66: no warranty as 3 years old.

He then bought a Alpine 160 (with just 1 year warranty)!?!

I think 223s are quite noted from frame failures out of warranty.

I guess whether you value a warranty depends how hard you ride, and how concerned you are of frame failures. I personally would not spend full whack on an Orange frame with limited warranty. I just replaced my Patriot with a Trek Remedy: the lifetime frame & bearing warranty sold it to me.

I could never understand what the fuss was about. The 5 looks like sh*t compared to some of the beautifully hydroformed bikes from the likes of Spesh, and the Lapierres are simply beautiful. In comparison the 5 looks like it was made by a bloke in a shed, which isn't far from the truth.

Then one day not long ago some lad at Cwmcarn let me borrow his for a run on the DH track, and I tell you I had an epiphany. How the hell could a skinny trail bike handle like that? Granted this thing had some heavy duty parts on it. I sold my stumpy and my bighit, and bought myself a 5 and have never looked back.

The build has evolved somewhat since I bought it, it has 36s, 721s and a double+bash, wide bars etc; for the riding I do (some DH, some general mucking about) the bike does it all brilliantly – I can honestly say (for the first time in ~15 years of riding bikes) that I only need one bike, and that I'm perfectly happy with my bike.

The only downsides I would report are that the 5 is pretty expensive to buy, and that it hardly looks good compared to some of the competition.

Oh, regarding the warranty. The Kia Cee'd comes with a 7 year warranty. I still wouldn't have one.

I really like my 5; don't give a crap about how it looks since I am usually looking at the trail when I ride 🙂 I'd go for a 140mm fork on it, or adjustables. Mine weighs in at about 26lbs minimum (depending on tyre choice etc) but I might beef it up slightly. 28lbs would see a nice beefy build for me 🙂

got really bad brake jack, bottom bracket was way too low

Well brake jack specifically can't happen on this bike as the brake caliper is on the same bit of metal as the dropout. So braking action can't compress the suspension. I'm sure whatever you felt was something else! When I brake on mine my weight goes forward causing the suspension to extend… btu that always happens doesn't it? And I don't think i've ever hit the BB – I have whacked pedals when trying to pedal over big rocks, but that's my fault.

If I had to change it, I might get something a bit lighter but that's because I also have a fairly light Patriot which is also utterly fabulous 🙂

As for bob – I only ever ride mine on the lowest setting of platform or off completely, and I can never really tell if I've left it off anyway unless I end up on road. I do have the Manitou SPV jobbie tho not the custom RP23.

Hora – are you actually able to proof read what you write?

Only you claim the bike is too long on technical stuff for nervous riders like yourself then conclude that it is indeed suited to nervous/newer riders!!!!!

You are talking absoulute shit. I didn't find mine too tight for the switchbacks i rode for a week in the Alps a few weeks back. I don't consider myself a riding god (only been doing it 4 years) but found the bike absolutly amazing on the stuff we did.

A longer fork would have been nice, only due to the long downhills.
I too run a 2009 Rev BTW and have found it a perfect match to the feel of what the bike is capable of.

IMO they are nice bikes, and ride nicely, but a bit portly and, well, boring. Very little has really happened to the design for a few years now. Obvious counter to this is if it ain't broke, don't fix it, but the design isn't perfect, and when every one else is progressing, you need to too.

It's heavier than a true XC machine, that's true. But it's more AM than XC – horses for courses 🙂

A bit too heavy for Enduro races I think. Good for rocky UK stuff.

nickegg – read what I write? Its the internet, I type as I think. I dont sit there proof reading or agonising over it like some do. I find the front a tad too slack (for me). Not a killer, just a minor gripe.

Fair enough Hora.

I've had to adapt slightly to the 09 frame as i previously had a 2007 one (with the steeper head angle). I prefer the 09 angles, it descends better but is harder to keep the front down on steep climbs though (and thats with the standard (90mm) stem fitted).

I also seem to use the propedal lever alot more, whilst on the old bike i only used it on maximum for smooth fireroad or roads.Maximum (3) seems almost locked out too, which is good.

A bit too heavy for Enduro races I think. Good for rocky UK stuff.

I do enduro's on mine without any problem !

nick, I believe there was a much lighter tune used in '09 as all the pro pedal settings were too harsh. It goes either way though, my '08 has pro pedal off nearly all the time, even on fire road I only stick it on if I fancy a bit of a grunt standing up, I leave it set on max and it's almost like a lockout. Wide open is then great for scenarios. That said, I'm not one for faffing with levers and buttons…

The idea for '09 was to make the pro peal settings more useful and not just a lockout. I believe the rear end on the '09 should feel more supple (I didn't notice) which I guess makes sense given that it's a bit slacker and possibly puts your weight back. I can then see why you'd need the pro pedal more as well…

I did find the '09 slightly better in a straight line, the '08 is definitely better in the slower twisty stuff and in switchbacks.

Hora: OT, Your seatpost will be going out special delivery tomorrow, was waiting to see whether RM were going to strike or not before sending…

A bit too heavy for Enduro races I think. Good for rocky UK stuff.

I do enduro's on mine without any problem !

Yeah, I've done 100km, 12 hr and 24hrs on mine. Just stick a set of 2.1 High Rollers on it, put the triple back on and it's good to go!

I rode an orange sub 5 and then a Patriot between 2001 and 2005. I loved them, but in retrospect, I had little experience of other bikes (still don't really) and they were just the best I had ridden at the time.

Despite this, I broke 2 sub5 frames JRA – although I may not have noticed the first weld failure as early as I could have. Both times, Orange claimed it was my fault and that I was jumping them, even though I can't jump! Orange were a total pain in the arse for 12 weeks the first time and 9weeks the second time and this is the main reason I will never touch and orange again.

Ride wise, they were pretty nice, but my job and lifestyle, changed and as my fitness began to decline I noticed when tech climbing, that the chain tension stiffening the suspension caused them to hook up on any ledge, and over the course of a day ride, this became very wearing catching on every root and rock outcrop. It exhibited the same characteristics when on the power on the flat too, making it feel quite hardtail like – and I can understand the appeal of that.

I realise that the pivot location has changed slightly since the days of the sub 5, but it hasn't moved that much, and pro pedal damped shocks and their ilk have acted as a great big band aid to compensate for some of the flaws inherent in the pivot placement/single pivot design. That said, the lack of maintenance is very appealing. I never really had too much trouble with brake jack, I'm not a heavy rear braker and what there was I adjusted to pretty quickly.

I've since ridden 4 bar bikes and decided I prefer the more active design suits seated tech climbing rather better, since is hooks up less and spits less too.

2 years ago I took a ride on a demo 5 and a demo Reign. I found the five twitchy, un-supple, unstable and ready to spit traction. By contrast, although the reign was too heavy and had a rubbish fork, the rear end rode really, really nicely. By then I suspect my riding style had changed since I last owned an orange.

YMMV.

That's cobblers about the brake jack by the way. Transfer of momentum will happen at the nearest compliance point which in the case of single pivot will be the main pivot. Its got a nice big lever to work along too.

I agree Scienceofficer…previous to my 2007 5 my only experience of full-sus was 2 Marin Wolf Ridge's!

I know a 5 is by no means perfect but i like the feel of it, the feedback etc. However, a single pivot is definitly not perfect or else everyone would still be using it i guess. Propedal and the like have certainly made these bikes pedal very well.

I'm almost scared of trying another bike in case i like it more than my 5!!!????? Stupid i know but the last thing i need is lust for yet another bike!

I know that problem very well!
😉

Thinking out loud here- would it be possible to set the psi to a certain level where you never have to bother flicking the lockout off and on? A sort of halfway house that gives you almost a firm coil-spring setting? Or would running the shock like this greatly increase wear leading to an earlier service?

Not sure, if you set it too firm then you'd rarely get full travel and a very harsh ride.

I find that setting the sag at around 35% with propedal off gives a good plush ride and allows maximum prodel to prop up the rear nicely on smooth climbs or roads.

Pinged mojo….will post up the reply..

Hora, wouldn't increase wear but the shock will be tuned to behave in a certain way as you move through the stroke. You'd have terrible small bump response at the very least.

RE: the pedal feedback and chain growth, I can understand why logically it seems like a negative and you can't understand why anyone would like it. If you're a strong high cadence pedaller, it doesn't have that hook up feeling because the chain growth stays more consistent and doesn't tug on the legs, it just firms up a bit. It will defeat you if you're unfit or tired but it's a bonus if you're fit and fresh. The harder you attack the bike, the better it rides, and this seems to be the case up down and along. You tend to approach techie climbs "balls out", pedal pedal and then boost into technical moves. If you just trudge on up, it's not going to work so well.

I've blindly evangelised about the bike for the 2 years I've had it, I've ridden other bikes, nothing compares… for me. But I'm also starting to understand why it isn't for everyone, there's a misconception that it's purely a great beginners/nervous riders bike – it is in that it's stable and safe feeling. But in many respects it's not a beginners bike because I think to get the most out of it, you have to literally try and kill it! To this it just responds so positively, and this is why so many rave about it.

Man, what a ramble… 🙄

I do enduro's on mine without any problem !

[SLAPS PALM TO FOREHEAD]

As IF I was seriously implying that it was actually IMPOSSIBLE to ride an enduro race on a 5! Don't be such spazzes! You can ride enduros on any bloody bike you like, this is clearly bloody obvious!

What I meant was that it's a bit too heavy to be ideal for enduros. Christ! 🙄

PS I have ridden mine on many enduros.

Technically you did say it was too heavy for enduros, which is not the same thing as it's too heavy to be ideal for enduros.

To put it back at you, none of us were under any illusion that it was the perfect machine for enduros. 🙄 😛

That's cobblers about the brake jack by the way. Transfer of momentum will happen at the nearest compliance point which in the case of single pivot will be the main pivot. Its got a nice big lever to work along too.

Er if you had no shock in the bike and it on a stand, then yes if you applied the brake to a spinning wheel the swingarm would move up.

However that force is tiny compared to the force from the shock pressure, and in real life when you brake on a 5 (and almost any other bike) your weight goes forward and the shock EXTENDS. This is NOT brake jack.

The force from the caliper is quite strong in a real life braking situation when you have a bike+rider to slow down, and that force is directed downwards into the swingarm. So the swingarm would tend to flex in the middle – but it's a massive swingarm on the 5 so no detectable flexing would occur – nor would it on any other bike really.

Technically you did say it was too heavy for enduros, which is not the same thing as it's too heavy to be ideal for enduros.

Technically you're a pedantic arse! 🙂

Touché!

I have owned many a full sus. To be honest I like the orange5 but wouldn't spend my cash on one. Not sure why you would want to fit 36;s to one, you should be looking at the alpine 160 for that. I'd go with 32 Talas 150's and save almost 2lb in weight.

As far as a 150mm travel bike I would maybe go for Shova, enduro or 575 to be honest. But then its all down to you individual needs. personally I started with a 120mm travel bike and I just keep adding more and more travel. 150mm is long enough for riding style. As a do it all type of bike and you want an orange the 1pline 160 is your best bet.