…for 2012 entry (based on applications to this point).

It is early days yet, but it looks like higher fees are putting students off. Unsurprising of course, but there are some figures to show this.

The biggest fall is in over 25s (down 20%) and over 40s (down 28%).

is this just compared to last year or to the overall trend? i’d have expected more than usual people to apply in the last couple of years, delaying gap years etc so they could get in before the fee increases?

I don’t think 9% will make a difference to all but the bottom end unis?

the fees are higher, but the repayments are lower: £600/year lower.

the new fee/loan/repayment system needn’t put anyone off.

Disatrous we need more unemeployed graduates and perhaps some more fully qualified chid care workers, hairdressers. motor mechanics and construction people with no jobs to go in to as well.

ye sthe mathcs is ace borrow more pay back less – obviously the givt did this to cost them money its not a cost sdsutting excercise [ is someoen else pays more] but w ehave done that debate to death
Less per year for longer is not less
I know 25% are better off but that means 75 % ar enot better off as a result

The Minister was clear on this cost

5lab – Compared to last year. The stats i’ve been sent don’t include a comparison with 2009, which would be a better comparison for the reasons you’ve given.

The fall in applications is 12.1 per cent in England; 13 per cent in Northern Ireland; 11.8 per cent in Scotland; and 8.3 per cent in Wales.

The data show that applications have dropped for all subject areas except “veterinary science, agriculture, and related”, which is up by 5 per cent, and “combined sciences”, up by 1 per cent.

Applications for computer sciences and technologies have dropped 10 per cent and 23 per cent respectively. Social studies and arts & design have fallen by around 22 and 27 per cent respectively.

The drop in applications for core science subjects is less extreme. The biological, physical and mathematical sciences are down 7 per cent, 1.6 per cent, and 2.6 per cent respectively.

Applications for courses for which have a 15 October* fell only 0.8 per cent.

*Oxbridge, medicine, veterinary subjects and dentistry

Total applications by Year
2008 60,532
2009 64,438
2010 71,883
2011 76,612
2012 69,724

http://www.ucas.com/about_us/media_enquiries/media_releases/2011/20111024

A cunning ploy to get people entering apprenticeships or undertake other vocational training (assuming that it is available)? When my lad grows up I would rather he got a proper training than some Mickey Mouse degree.

…Less per year for longer is not less…

yes, it is.

about £12,000 less*.

If someone’s dumb enough to be put off due to the debt (given the earning minimum and low repayment amounts) they’re too dumb to warrant a place at uni anyway.

OU reports a large rise in applications amongst younger people.

Advantages people see are;

It’s cheaper
You can fit in around work due to few fixed time lectures.
Can stay at home whilst studying.

you can apply to go to uni up to a the day the terms starts, these figures are pretty meaningless, a lot more than 69k will go to uni

Are you saying that a 9% reduction is a good or bad thing? Isn’t there too much emphasis on having a degree, any degre, and not enough emphasis on having the right qualification to satisfy the employers’ needs?

Taking the figures in isolation tells you nothing.

IMO, fewer people at uni than presently is generally a good thing – there are lots of people graduating with degrees that do nothing for their prospects and they’d have been better off in vocational training.

The key bit of information is who’s stopped applying. If it’s poorer people (as seems likely) then that’s a problem. IMO, the goal should be to reduce the overall number of applications but to make it much more equitable so that people aren’t given a significant unfair advantage just by being better off.

amt27 – Member
you can apply to go to uni up to a the day the terms starts, these figures are pretty meaningless, a lot more than 69k will go to uni

deadline is 15th Jan, if you want a popular choice you’ll struggle through clearing.

Why is this a bad thing. Is this percentage drop those that would have tossed it off previously not wanting a huge debt?

If it’s poorer people (as seems likely) then that’s a problem.

Again, not a question of wealth but the ability to see the long term advantages and a question of intelligence. If you’re poor and stupid, it would have been a wasted investment anyway. 😛

the ability to see the long term advantages

I do think that people from abackground where there is no ‘history’ of higher education have a ‘cultural’ bias away from it.

My wife was told both by her school and her parents that she should go to secretarial college and learn to type as that was the sort fo job that ‘suited her’. This was more to do with her background than any assesment of ther ability – she’s just become deputy head at a school as she ignored advice and did a degree.

People who are beign told ‘it’s not for you’ by those around them are surely more likely to forgo university if all they can see is a mountain of debt and have no one close to them to use as a role model for the advantages they might gain by attending.

I agree with Clubber. Far too many people go to university but asking up to £9000 is stupid it will put poorer people off because of the fear of the debt.

Personally I have a business degree but my professional accountancy qualification is far more important to my job prospects and I could have got that three years earlier if I hadn’t studied for a degree.

she’s just become deputy head at a school as she ignored advice and did a degree.

And that’s exactly the the type of person I was talking about. 😆

Yeah, ok, I guess that I meant poorer but capable people.

I do think that people from abackground where there is no ‘history’ of higher education have a ‘cultural’ bias away from it.

+1

IMO the additional costs that will be coming in will significantly deter people who might otherwise have gone against that cultural bias.

I think she’s a minority though, don simon.

anMunro – Member
Total applications by Year
2008 60,532
2009 64,438
2010 71,883
2011 76,612
2012 69,724

Cheers. That doesn’t look too bad, but the subjects facing the biggest falls is the worrying thing.

University entry has got too easy over the last few years with everyone coming out with 20 A*+ or whatever the heck they get these days. Havent many employers complained that the standard of degree entry students has also dropped over the years.

Higher costs hopefully means that only those who really think they can get the good jobs will even bother applying in the first place. So hopefully employers will only get good candidates.

However it may well leave a skills gap. Would you want to do a 7 year architecture degree which may well leave you with £100,000+ debt, which will take you years to pay off and leave you in real terms earning a lot less than piers who have managed to get in before fees came in…

If your a parent of a new born, you roughly need to save £50 per month per child to the day they are 18 if you want to get them through a 3 year uni course.

Agreed, but we suffer from an idea that the be all and end all is a university degree, when it is not. The Dutch quite successfully have a different approach valuing highly the vocational approach. Can we not simply accept that some people are not suited to university education and get on with things? And people dropping out of enlisting isn’t necessarily a bad thing. Universities have become huge money making machines and I guess have less of a focus on education, but I digress.
Those that want a degree and can see the advantages will and are still applying which is why we’re seeing such a small drop in applications.

the vacational approach

never mind learning, let’s have a holiday?

😉

valuing highly the vacational approach.

Bit like me. I love holidays.

Edit: Too easy! Not quick enough! If only I’d gone to university…

You really should wait until my 15 mins are up, otherwise it’s not me who looks stoopid… 😀

Cheers. That doesn’t look too bad, but the subjects facing the biggest falls is the worrying thing.

Social studies and arts & design have fallen by around 22 and 27 per cent respectively.

Doesn’t worry me .. 🙂

Isn’t there likely to be a demographic slump in the near future where there are just less kids wanting to do undergraduate courses? And how come there isn’t a marketplace where different courses have different costs? I’m sure an engineering department costs more to run than an English deparment (but then probably generates some income form it’s post grads)

Engineering departments still receives funding from government, the English dept doesn’t.

Higher costs hopefully means that only those who really think they can get the good jobs will even bother applying in the first place. So hopefully employers will only get good candidates.

Thats a big hope and when we are hoping that an important government policy might, kind of hopefully be good I lack confidence that it will be.

[

A cunning ploy to get people entering apprenticeships or undertake other vocational training (assuming that it is available)? When my lad grows up I would rather he got a proper training than some Mickey Mouse degree.

oddly we pay up to 15 k for an apprenticeships training so they can go straight into employment trained so a large company can make money of them straight away …thank god taxpayers still subsidise employers I say

TBH it depends in may areas there are no jobs once you qualify and it is just as pointless as going to Uni – if you do not have an employed apprenticeship chances are you will never be employed in that profession – its about 90-99% depending on exact subject choice. We all pay for that “education” as well

We had a massive drop in applicants to our instructor training course this year – almost all the enquiries we followed up stated that they were getting in uni while it was ‘cheap’ in 2011.
We already have an increase in enquiries for 2012 start 🙂

http://www.abernethy.org.uk/PROFESSIONAL_INSTRUCTOR_COURSE/

“Shocked”

Good

Now we need to cut the nonsensical subjects followed by promoting apprenticeships again.

Far too many skilled trades are now ignored in favour of useless degrees imo

Thats a big hope and when we are hoping that an important government policy might, kind of hopefully be good I lack confidence that it will be.

Sorry a_a, but I can’t actually take anything you say seriously unless it has an accompanying video. 😉

😆

When my lad grows up I would rather he got a proper training than some Mickey Mouse degree

.

Indeed, but how do you tell which is which?

had an apprentice 3yrs ago ( gas and plumbing) no setting the world alight but was getting there, only basic gcses etc left to go to uni.. did faff all first year ( racked up 5k overdraft and that whilst working shifts at Maccy Dees) left at end of second year with 10k overdraft and full time telesales job, had half a dozen similar jobs since come back asking for his old role..

university/ further education should be for those who are capable of making it make a difference to thier career prospects not as a way of hoovering up any kid who a, cant find a job b, has a job but has thier head turned by dreams of ‘sports journalism’

and whats wrong with paying for an education i have to pay for my CPD and re training and exams why should nt everyone else? ( approx. 1 -1.5k PA every year for me)

If your a parent of a new born, you roughly need to save £50 per month per child to the day they are 18 if you want to get them through a 3 year uni course.

No, you do what evryone else does and let them take the loan when they get to 18.

I only knew one person at uni who had it paid for by wholy by family, and that was by an inherited trust fund.

I was better off under the ‘old’ system, smalled debt and relaistic cance of paying it off well before its written off.

My brother (might) have been better off under the new system as he’s picked an (on average) lower earning career, so would have benifited from lower repayments.