Riding to work this morning I was shouted at for not riding in the gutter and accused of thinking that I owned the road. Unusually though, this abuse was from a fellow cyclist. They expressed their opinions while undertaking me, and previously they’d ran a couple of red lights. None of which was remotely as serious as riding too far out into the lane, in their opinion.

For reference, this was westbound on the Calder Road/A71 in Edinburgh, a 40mph urban dual carriageway. I was far enough out so that my right grip was in the middle of the lane.

If this place has taught me one thing it it s that plenty cyclists are dicks 😉

Yep the way you travel does not change who you are.

I’m guessing the other cyclist was annoyed because there was no safe way to pass you?

So did they jump the lights, you passed, they jumped the lights again, you passed again?

They sound like an idiot so I wouldn’t worry about it.

Riding in the gutter……riding in the middle of the lane.I suspect there is a happy medium.If another bike can happily undertake you I’d suggest your version of the primary position is on the generous side.

If another bike can happily undertake you I’d suggest your version of the primary position is on the generous side.

Have you ever seen a bike? They’re quite narrow you know.

Plenty of room for another one to nip up the inside when you’re in Primary (as this diagram from British Cycling illustrates):

If another bike can happily undertake you

bit of ^
EDIT: further information about road/traffic/etc conditions required, but that graphic is a very generous representation of acceptable road positioning.

unless you were undertaken while sat in an ASL at the lights?
out of interest how did you resist the chance to “Left Turn Clyde!”

I had a cyclist go mental at me one day for not thanking him for moving over on a cycle path.

Wide cycle path, we’re going in opposite directions. I’m on the left hand side of my direction, he was in the middle. He saw me and moved left. No big deal.

Except as we passed each other and I didn’t thank him for moving over, he started going mental. “Oh don’t even bother saying thank you” etc etc.

Most bizarre. As above, some people are arseholes regardless of transport method.

What are these ‘bikes’ that you speak of?I know a tosspot when I see them you know.

I got beeped at and some abuse for riding in primary this morning. in the lane 1 of 2, traffic was light and several cars had passed me unhindered in the 2nd lane but matey boy in his corsa beeped and then gesticulated – with his phone in his hand, immediately before getting stuck in a queue of cars.

Tool.
Plenty of them about 🙁

did stop to get his plate at the next bus stop (witnesses incase he went mental) but he must have turned off, ho hum.

Some people, cyclist or not, can just be tw*ts….they can’t help it as it’s just the way they are!!!

further information about road/traffic/etc conditions required, but that graphic is a very generous representation of acceptable road positioning.

The graphic isn’t the whole of the advice, though is it? It shows where primary position is, without complicating the image with any of the reasons that might mean taking it would be a good plan.

The advice isn’t “Ride Primary” it’s “Ride primary if/when…”

ChrisL: Fudmagnet.

OP – you do know that a lot of people have no idea what they’re talking about on any given subject – especially on road positioning for cycling 😀

To be honest, there’s hardly anyone knows how to ride a bike properly (as per Bikeability and Cyclecraft) so I tend to ignore any abuse or other commentary as chances are they’re just someone with an opinion, rather than an informed opinion… and essentially are just making a noise rather than actually saying anything useful or even accurate…

without complicating the image with any of the reasons that might mean taking it would be a good plan

apart from that group of long-headed aliens about to step into the road. I’d be giving them a wide berth, too.

apart from that group of long-headed aliens

They’re not long-headed aliens, it’s Stewie from Family Guy and his wife and kid out for a stroll

I’ve stopped thinking of cyclists and motorists as separate groups. These days I think in terms of good road users and idiots.

Chapeau to the cyclist on Brentford High Street this morning who decided that, rather than wait in the right hand filter lane for 10 seconds, he would ride over the crossing, cut up two pedestrians against the railings, out and across the next crossing and then on his way. If I had been turning left to follow him, I’d have had a few words too.

Kit, bike and lights all in order, but really. Want to be treated like traffic? Start acting like it!

Were you in the bus lane? I’d definitely be in it on Calder Road and way out into it due to the bus vs. bike size difference

Gary_M – Member
I’m guessing the other cyclist was annoyed because there was no safe way to pass you?

So did they jump the lights, you passed, they jumped the lights again, you passed again?

They sound like an idiot so I wouldn’t worry about it.

About half of the lane would have been to my right, more than was to my left.

Oddly I saw them jump the lights ages earlier. From that point on I slowly caught them up and then passed them. Sometime after either I slowed down (I didn’t do it intentionally anyway) or they sped up. It was all spread out over a fairly stretch of road.

Abuse first thing in the morning tends to knock me off balance a bit for too much of the day.

dmorts – Member
Were you in the bus lane? I’d definitely be in it on Calder Road and way out into it due to the bus vs. bike size difference

I was in the bus lane. I ride the whole length of the Calder Road dual carriageway so I don’t need to go into the outside lane at all. Westbound the whole inside lane is a bus lane, except for the bits just before and after the roundabouts.

In my experience on that road if you’re not in the primary position then many other road users will attempt to overtake without leaving the inside lane at all. That really does not feel safe, particularly as it’s road with a 40mph limit. I do move to a more central position in the lane on the approach to the roundabouts as otherwise cars will try and cut in or squeeze me into the gutter with merry abandon.

About half of the lane would have been to my right, more than was to my left.

Ah but for the other rider to pass safely they would have had to go into lane 2 🙂

I completely agree with your positioning though. Part of my commute is 30mph dual carriageway and if I don’t ‘take the lane’ a driver will attempt to squeeze past without moving out, same when it comes to the roundabout at the end of that dual carriageway section.

ChrisL – Member

Abuse first thing in the morning tends to knock me off balance a bit for too much of the day.

Want a dose of abuse lift on saturday to the cruel psychological experiment trailfairies?

In Manchester certain riders think it fine to overtake on the left when you are completely in the cycle lane with a line of cars next to you.

In Manchester certain riders think it fine to overtake on the left when you are completely in the cycle lane with a line of cars next to you.

That’s because most people who ride bikes in our fair city are idiots.

Abuse first thing in the morning tends to knock me off balance a bit for too much of the day.

I find a cheery f*** off! in reply puts me back on an even keel.

If this place life has taught me one thing it it s that plenty cyclists of British are dicks

In my experience on that road if you’re not in the primary position then many other road users will attempt to overtake without leaving the inside lane at all. That really does not feel safe, particularly as it’s road with a 40mph limit. I do move to a more central position in the lane on the approach to the roundabouts as otherwise cars will try and cut in or squeeze me into the gutter with merry abandon.

+1

It’s always going to be a judgement call based on traffic, road width, layout, surface etc, but I’d be in primary unless there was a reason not to be, that might be for my own benefit or it might be for the benefit of drivers if the roads wide enough to pass safely without crossing the central lines for example. On a 2 lane urban road I’d be in primary, anything else is just inviting a scary pass!

Out of town I’d err more towards secondary, but that’s anticipating that the dangers are almost always coming from the right (fast cars in either direction), rather than the hedge.

[/quote]ChrisL: Fudmagnet

To be fair, he still hasn’t ditched you. To quote Calvin and Hobbes, “there’s treasure arseholes everywhere.”

Stupid phone.

Gary_M – Member

About half of the lane would have been to my right, more than was to my left.

Ah but for the other rider to pass safely they would have had to go into lane 2

if he had half the lane to his right then the other rider had the same amount of lane space to over take him. But chose to undertake??? No need to go to lane 2!!!

Unless the ‘give a bike as much space as you would a car’ applies, 😉