Watching Tony Benn dismantle Griffin's facade of half-truths, distortions and outright lies would be exceedingly good telly!
One of the few things you could ever persuade me to pay money to watch. Great idea!
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UKIP = The BNP in suits ??
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Posted 2 years ago #
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The problem is that many Brits of employable age and health have a poor attitude to work
Is that why unemployment has shot up recently ?
Britain wasn't flooded with cheap foreign labour by New Labour because of "poor attitude to work ". Unless of course, you think that not wanting to work for peanuts constitutes a "poor attitude to work ".
Posted 2 years ago # -
Unless of course, you think that not wanting to work for peanuts constitutes a "poor attitude to work ".
Err... yes.Posted 2 years ago # -
I take it then, that you've got a really good attitude to work and work for **** all 5thElefant.
Good for you mate.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Well said El bent
Posted 2 years ago # -
i would LOVE it if a black or asian in the audience asked him for a big hug
and went on stage to do it - just to see him squirmhe's a vile little shit, who lives a life based on negatives and the fears of the shallow end of the gene pool - another phucking ian paisley, but without the dog collar
Posted 2 years ago # -
ordinary British people
who are exactly? what? white and a bit thick? or who were born, live and work here?
i was in dublin a while ago with a sales director. he was moaning about all the eastern european accents - 'scroungers coming there for work' - i had to point out that as an englishman, he was a foreigner, there for the same reason - plus we was uglier than the nice polish blonde serving us coffee really politely
Posted 2 years ago # -
So what about the BNP party members (including their publicity director)who claimed that Ashley Cole is not "ethnically British" and that he "came to this country" even though the footballer in question was born in London?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2009/oct/11/bbc-bnp-ashley-cole-comment-row
Posted 2 years ago # -
Is it fair to say that "ordinary British people" (for the purposes of these discussions, I'm not setting out an ideology) were born in Britain to parents who were fairly settled in Britain, basically want to work, basically want to work in Britain and are not qualified to work in high finance?
Posted 2 years ago # -
This seems like a good time to repost the mind-boggling Vice Magazine BNP article that someone dug up a while back:
http://vice.typepad.com/vice_magazine/2009/07/london-babes-of-the-bnp.html
Posted 2 years ago # -
I take it then, that you've got a really good attitude to work and work for **** all 5thElefant.
Have done, sure. I certainly wouldn't expect others to pay me for doing nothing when I'm able to work, no matter how badly paid. Which I assume is the alternative to refusing to work for **** all?
And I can't see me voting for the Nazis to get a pay rise.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Well, i agree with Ernie here (mainly). The reason that these faschist scumbags are gaining support, is because people see them as the 'only option'. I have heard of a few people saying that they will vote BNP to 'make a point' and 'what else can we do'. Whilst i would never ever vote for the BNP, or any fascist organisation, I think a point does need to be made. I dont think i can put it any better than Ernie Lynch did when he said -
'. The Labour Party has turned it's back on it's core voters, and it is no coincidence that the BNP only does well in traditional Labour territory - never in Conservative areas. New Labour has a very heavy burden of responsibility for the growth of the BNP.
Britain needs a party which puts the interests of the ordinary British people first. But not one which is fascist, racist, or homophobic.'
I do believe, that they should be given the right to go on the programme. I beleive in free speech, and think it would be wrong to ban Mr Griffin. I hope he makes a complete c0ck of himself, but i must say, i fear he wont. To be honest though, i also think that a party like that will never gain any real influence in british politics. After all, who is really british, we are a nation made up of immigrants, dating back centuries.
Posted 2 years ago # -
El-Bent:
No "bleeding heart liberals" are denying the right to freedom of speech here or anywhere else, they are merely exercising their right to free speech to point out the flaws in others political beliefs, just as you would.
Really? Is that really true?
"The BBC should not have agreed to put the BNP alongside the other democratic parties" - Peter Hain
Wilders's presence has the potential to "threaten community harmony and therefore public safety" - Jaqui Smith, on banning Wilders from entry to the country
Sounds rather like repressing someones right to free speech to me!
In Contrast - that well known right winger Peter Tatchell said the following:
"The Home Secretary is guilty of gross hypocrisy. She gives visas to demagogues who incite violence and murder, while banning from the UK a Dutch MP who has never incited violence against anyone,"
Clearly Tatchells a BNP sympathiser!
Posted 2 years ago # -
Griffin is a Cambridge educated bloke with excellent presentation skills, I doubt very much that he'll "make a cock of himself".
Posted 2 years ago # -
From Mr_Agreeable's Vice Mag link:
I kind of got into it through my friend Danny. He’s really racist. Everyone calls him “Nazi Danny.” He started telling me about them, and it made a lot of sense.
Love that. Thanks for reminding us.
I think what is interesting about that is that they've found 3 people, who admittedly don't seem to be very clued up. Of those:
Rebecca doesn't know what "fascist" means and it isn't clear whether she is a fascist, although she is probably fairly described as a racist.
Jo is quite confused about a lot of things, but isn't spooked by the idea she's a fascist. She doesn't mind, and considers that people's convictions are what they are, regardless of whether they're racist. She either knows or rightly guesses that she thinks Enoch Powell is a hero, and identifies Nelson Mandela as a villain.
Helen accepts that she is a member of a fascist party, but isn't at all troubled by the label. She considers that having honest convictions is more important than what your convictions are.
These girls aren't enough of a sample, but they trouble me. They aren't going to watch QT, but equally if you, me or Griffin told them that the BNP was an overtly racist national socialist movement with a history of street violence or wotnot they'd shrug, and note that the other parties are too soft to do what's needful. They haven't so much been sold the BNP's ideas, as been sold a worldview in which the BNP's ideas make very good sense. I don't know what anyone could show them about the BNP to convince them that it's a bad thing.
You'd have to show them things about Britain to convince them that the BNP was lying to them about Britain before you'd make any progress with their ideas being nasty nonsense. And they haven't got all their ideas about Britain from the BNP either. They'll have got them from basically respectable newspapers, TV etc etc as well.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Tell you what mind, it would be really, really amusing for Nick Griffin to turn up on Question Time in a full on Brownshirt ensemble, complete with 'tache and combover...
Posted 2 years ago # -
So, Mr pies, are you suggesting that as he was educated at cambridge, he is incapable of making a mistake? I think it has been been proven that he can make 'slip ups' and reveal himself for who he really is before...
I did say i find it unlikely he will though, i just hope he wil
Posted 2 years ago # -
No, I'm just saying that he's no intellectual knuckle dragger who can be caught out easily. Sure he could slip up but unlikely I think.
Posted 2 years ago # -
He's on CH4 now...
Posted 2 years ago # -
Is that why unemployment has shot up recently ?
Britain wasn't flooded with cheap foreign labour by New Labour because of "poor attitude to work ". Unless of course, you think that not wanting to work for peanuts constitutes a "poor attitude to work ".
Er, no, its shot up because we are in a recession. And yes I do think that not being prepared to earn an honest living instead of sitting on your sovereign-ringed kappa-slappa mother-of-two arse living of a state income, ahem I mean benefits IS a poor attitude to work. Every single foreign worker I've met is perfectly happy to earn what they get paid, are glad for the work, and still maintain a comfortable lifestyle. They're not into throwing away money on status symbols such as big tv's or flash cars (or mountainbikes).
I work in the housebuilding industry, and pretty much every site manager I have spoken to commends foreign workers for their willingness to just get on with the job. If they're a brickie and it rains, they stick up a tarp and carry on working which earns them more money. The local workers will have a cup of tea and moan about their crap wages until the rain stops.
Posted 2 years ago # -
"ordinary British people"
who are exactly? what? white and a bit thick? or who were born, live and work here?
Yup, you're on the right wavelength there. Possibly born here, definitely living and working here, possibly white, possibly a bit thick, it all depends on the individual really.......... all in all just, pretty ordinary British people.
But not one of Peter Mandelson's typical friends, shall we say.Of course as I have said before, the BNP does not actually believe in "British jobs for British people".
No, the BNP believes in "British jobs for some British people". Which is altogether quite different.According to the BNP amongst other things, how much melanin someone has in their skin and how it affects their skin's pigmentation, is all important when deciding whether someone is entitled to a job (and up until now, whether they could join the BNP)
It is really quite amazing that these moronic and medieval views should now be receiving such massive publicity. As too, is the fact that so many people are falling over each other in a bid to give these cretins a platform so that they can further their extremely dangerous and divisive doctrine.
Nick Griffin on QT is a victory for all those who wish to replace harmony and societal cohesion, with division and social disintegration. Al-Qaeda amongst others, will I'm sure, be very pleased.
Posted 2 years ago # -
oh come on BigDummy, you skipped the best bit....
Do you think Nick Griffin is actually gay, or is that just a vicious rumour?
No. I think it’s a vicious rumour.
Have you seen him in the flesh? He’s quite mincey.Posted 2 years ago # -
reading some of these comments and come to the conclusion that there's some arrogant pricks on here!
Posted 2 years ago # -
Griffen is a closet gay - for sure
Posted 2 years ago # -
Do you think Nick Griffin is actually gay, or is that just a vicious rumour?
IIRC all the rumours of Nick Griffin's alleged homosexuality originate from the BNP itself. It is a fact that members of fascist organisations are constantly falling out with each other, and allegations of homosexuality are often made. Often these allegations, specially in the old and highly homophobic National front, have proved to be true.
I very good mate of mine who was for many years an extremely active member of the NF, has told me of his shock when he discovered how widespread homosexuality was within the NF leadership. I remember how he emphasised his incredulity at the thought that these people who he had heard so many times denounce homosexuality, should themselves have been homosexuals.
Disgruntled fascists are often very keen to cause maximum damage to their former colleagues ..........it's worth remembering that a BNP full membership list was posted on the internet for all to see by a disgruntled BNP member.
And apparently it has been done again today :
Posted 2 years ago # -
Ernie, I'm still not clear what (if anything) you think actually needs doing about these chaps now.
That labour and the tories have failed a large chunk of British society seems clear enough, and that they need political mobilisation of some sort seems reasonable.
Right now, we've got a fascist party with growing electoral support, which doesn't seem to have needed a platform on QT to grow thus far. You reckon it does them good to have people on QT, so the best thing is not to have them on there, to ignore them.
Will that actually set them back in the meantime? The hope that a better political party comes along to harness the enthusiasm of those currently being gulled by Griffin's boys is a while off being fulfilled I suspect. I can't help thinking that if they're doing OK at present they can do better whether or not they're on TV.
Is there a strategy to complement ignoring them at present? Or do you consider the risk of them simply getting steadily stronger is manageable?
(apologies if I'm being dense)
Posted 2 years ago # -
[It's an entertaining diversion and nothing more, but there's some circumstantial evidence for [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hidden_Hitler]Hitler being gay[/url], and Jonah Goldberg argues in "Liberal Fascism" that there was a lot of gayness in the german nazi party. Until they started to get seriously into logical racism a lot of the politics of it attracted unconventional people who broke taboos, lived in the moment and thought sex was an elemental force, a significant number of whom were gay. But I doubt Griffin would run the argument.]
Posted 2 years ago # -
Ernie, I'm still not clear what (if anything) you think actually needs doing about these chaps now.
That's probably because I don't post a great deal about the BNP
I have consistently argued that the BNP should not be ignored. A couple of years ago someone on here told me to stop waffling on about the BNP because if they were ignored, they would simply go away. Historically the threat from fascism has tended to be ignored, this has always worked in their favour. Fascism needs 3 ingredients to thrive. An economic crises, a section of society to use as a scapegoat, and a dismissive attitude towards them. Their rise to power under those circumstances can be very impressive. "Let's make Herr Hitler Chancellor/give him a platform on QT, he is such an idiot that he will completely screw up and support for the NSP will collapse" Mussolini's rise to power was equally impressive.
The BNP should not be ignored but neither, should they be viewed simply as a party like all other parties - they are not. Not because they have different opinions (their views on the EU are much closer to mine than the Tory party's views) but because they are racist. Racism is at the very core of everything which the BNP believes in/stands for. This automatically makes them utterly undemocratic - you cannot disenfranchise people on the basis of skin colour, and then expect to be allowed to participate in democratic debate.
But of course as I have already said, the most effect way to stem growing support for the BNP is by dealing with the very legitimate grievances, which they exploit for their nasty filthy racist agenda (and that includes immigration btw) Unfortunately British politics is in dire straights at the moment, and large sections of British society feel abandoned and unrepresented. I think we will have to wait a few months until the general election to discover exactly what direction British politics next takes. New Labour is dead, the funeral will take place next election. What replaces it has yet to be decided.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Wilders's presence has the potential to "threaten community harmony and therefore public safety" - Jaqui Smith, on banning Wilders from entry to the country
Labrat,
You think that this Government are Bleeding heart liberals? Are you so right wing that you've deliberately had your right leg blown off below the knee so you can lean further over to the right?
Posted 2 years ago # -
Thanks Ernie.
Posted 2 years ago # -
You're welcome ...... although I'd like to revise my earlier suggestion that there is little chance of Nick Griffin screwing up on QT. I can't believe that today he has compared Britain's top generals with Nazi war criminals
......... is the geezer a complete **** idiot ?
Although I can understand why he's done it - it is an absolute classic, fascist knee-jerk reaction. Fascist invariably accuse others of what they are themselves - it is an attempt to deflect criticism away from themselves.
For example the BNP love to portray themselves as victims, consequently, they are forever whingeing about being the victims of racism (anti-white racism) and anti-democratic practices, despite the fact that they are themselves obviously both racist, and anti-democratic .
Accusing others of being homosexual when you yourself are one, is another good one. As is, accusing your opponents of being fascist - something which the BNP regularly does. Indeed Labrat regularly accuses me on here of being a fascist in the same vane (I think he did it yesterday in fact)
So when faced with some stinging criticism from top generals, Nick Griffin did what came naturally - accused them of being like Nazis. I'm sure he didn't give it much thought at all if he had, he wouldn't have been so stupid (and he unbelievably compounded the problem by threaten them with retribution - what a tw4t) Let's hope his mouth reacts quicker than his brain on QT.
btw, I found Nick Griffin obvious detailed knowledge of German Nazi generals who were hanged after Nuremberg during his rant today 'interesting'. And it reminded of how a couple of years ago I was involved to a debate at work with an active member of the BNP who was trying to convince me that Winston Churchill was a war criminal.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article6883093.ece
"Mr Griffin reacted furiously, saying that the comments were “nothing but a dying Tory toady gasp”. He added: “Along with the political leadership of Nazi Germany, the chiefs of staff of the German Army, Alfred Jodl and Wilhelm Keitel, were also charged with waging aggressive war."
Posted 2 years ago # -
Ernie, I wouldn't call you a Fascist - I do believe I called you a "socialist worker reading recalcitrant Bolshevik p*nis!" though, just after you called me a "daft fascist plonker" and accused me of tacit racism for even mentioning the fact that the former head of the CRE thought multiculturalism had failed...
However, on the subject, can you point anyone here towards an agreed unified definition of Fascism? as it seems to me that your criteria seems somewhat reminiscent of that applied by Rick from the young ones...
Posted 2 years ago # -
Its very hard to define but easy to recognise IMO. Lots of discussion here.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Ernie, I wouldn't call you a Fascist
This historical and factual gobbledygook, certainly seemed to suggest that I was more or less a fascist :
Zulu-Eleven - MemberErnie -
The most amusing thing of course, being that the BNP are about as right wing as Joseph Stalin - its essentially a collectivist platform. nationalisation of industry, introduction of co-operatives across the farming industry. their policies are almost entirely socialist, paternalistic and totalitarian, far more in accordance with your own beliefs than mine Ernie!
Posted 2 days ago
I have certainly called you a fascist before now Ratty. That is very much based on the my own experience on how fascists argue and the sort of stuff you post. Excluding the racism. I am not aware of you ever having made racist comments - other than your recent dig at multiculturalism which I thought stunk of racism. But that appears to have been an isolated incident. And if you were indeed a racist, it would more than likely have become evident in your numerous posts (although I don't read everything you post) You actually strike me as a reformed ex-NF member - one which has dropped the puerile racism but hung on to much of the extreme right-wing ideology. Although I could be wrong, I just find it hard to believe that you don't have a 'background' - you just know a bit too much about far right politics. I can't imagine that you've never made the leap to join a political party. ......could be the far right of the Tory Party though I suppose (never met any on a personal level)
Posted 2 years ago # -
Griffin's wikipedia bio makes interesting reading. Didn't know he was Cambridge educated and had a glass eye (I just thought he was thick and ugly). Shows my ignorance I suppose.
He's still a tool in my opinion. But I now know he's a well educated tool.
Posted 2 years ago #
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