Has this been done yet? Shocking ignorance from the motorbike cop and what was the bloke from the police car doing keeping out of the way. I expect he knew the other guy was wrong.
Disappointing number of apologists on [url=
road.cc facebook thread about it[/url] too, with some pointing out that the Highway Code says [i]"ride in single file on narrow or busy roads and when riding round bends"[/i]
Which it does, but I'm not sure the road in the video quite qualifies:
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([url= https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/rules-for-cyclists-59-to-82 ]also it is a "should", not a "MUST", rule[/url])
Is it just me or does the cyclist say 'I'm gonna enjoy this' as they get pulled over? Not that the kind of people who ride with cameras on are relishing confrontation obviously....
😛
People who ride two abrest deserve to crash.
The cop doesn't seem able to deduce that two is not "more than two". He might be waiting a while to make it to detective!
People who ride two abrest deserve to crash.
Yeah the fools - imagine following official government-endorsed guidance (i.e. Cyclecraft), obeying the law, and making it easier for drivers to pass them safely.
In other news, almost every driver is two abreast, even when they are on their own!
"It's a 60 limit" - you can tell they're not STW members, they'd have been quick to tell him it's a limit not a target.
People who ride two abrest deserve to crash.
On a road like that it's a lot easier, and safer, to overtake two-abreast cyclists than it is when they're in single file. Take less time to pass.
I can't believe I'm having to say this on a cycling forum.
Copper was a tool but the guy loves to hear his own voice.
It's just cringeworthy from all sides. Police should know better, but the guys should have just shut their gobs, apologised and been on their merry way to carry on regardless. There was never going to be any value in arguing it on the roadside.
Too many stem spacers to be taken seriously.
Don't see why they should apologise - but they could definitely have been less arsey about it. The [i]"I'm going to enjoy this"[/i] sets the tone. He's probably a big hitter on here 😀
People who ride two abrest deserve to crash.
You're a pleasant chap, eh?
Well thats 5 minutes Im not getting back. The cyclist was never going to prove he is right with such a bellended approach. Classic looking for camera footage, and loves the sound of his own voice.
he should be arrested for his taste in music, and i don't think i'd like a night out with him, as he didn't draw breath.
Sad thing is that that copper is representative of pretty much every member of the police that I've ever met. Serious lack of intelligence, awful attitude and a massive superiority complex.
What a pair of d!cks.
Copper may have been in the wrong, but like all these things we don't know what happened before.
I'd guess the morons were riding wide 2 abreast preventing people getting past, just look at the line of traffic that comes past
Police should know better, but the guys should have just shut their gobs, apologised and been on their merry way to carry on regardless.
Dont see why they should. If the bike cop had said "I think you should single out on this road" and he knew the highway code as it is well I'd have trouble not laughing at him as he thumbed his obviously unread highway code.
On a more serious point though, if those charged with helping to protect vulnerable road users are so ignorant of the law and the safety issues of riding a bike its no wonder the roads are so ****ed.
Sad thing is that that copper is representative of pretty much every member of the police that I've ever met. Serious lack of intelligence, awful attitude and a massive superiority complex.
Doesn't represent the majority I've met.
just look at the line of traffic that comes past
Cant see any in the time it takes for the motorbike to stop and get off his bike.
Drac+1 - nearly every copper I've met, on duty or informally, have been hard working, bright and want to help and protect the public. But then I tend not to start the meeting looking to make myself look bigger and better.
unfortunately 99.9 per cent of motorists are more concerned with getting past without a hold-up, than the potential safety benefits that two abreast brings.
They also see two abreast as a big FU, it just antagonises motorists, it shouldn't, but it does.
I tend to like to get on with my fellow road-users, that and no one wants to ride with me.
Sad thing is that that copper is representative of pretty much every member of the police that I've ever met. Serious lack of intelligence, awful attitude and a massive superiority complex.
We've clearly had some very different experiences.
Who would put a soundtrack on that film? They deserve arresting for that alone and probably copyright infringement too.
My experience of coppers is pretty good. Nice guys and gals the Edinburgh ones I have worked with
One incident sums it up for me. they were doing a crackdown on cyclists without lights and pulled me over for no front light. I took it out of my pocket and told them the bracket broke. The cop suggested putting it in a front pocket so it shone vaguely to the front and told me to be on my way.
They also see two abreast as a big FU, it just antagonises motorists, it shouldn't, but it does.
You can say precisely the same about one-abreast, frankly. HGH.
MrPottatoHead - Memberthe guys should have just shut their gobs, apologised and been on their merry way to carry on regardless.
Nah. If you go about apologising when you've done nothing wrong, what's the point in apologising for anything? It obviously doesn't mean anything. The guy's a little bit of a knob but he wasn't stopped for being a knob so that's OK.
the first bit was most insightful
'if you want to get lower,...duck out the wind...yeah'
telling his mate how to ride a bike... 😉
awful attitude and a massive superiority complex.
They should fit in well here then.
Nah. If you go about apologising when you've done nothing wrong, what's the point in apologising for anything? It obviously doesn't mean anything. The guy's a little bit of a knob but he wasn't stopped for being a knob so that's OK.
Well put.
There was never going to be any value in arguing it on the roadside.
Apart from generating a lot of publicity in favour of the facts.
Sitting back and letting misinformed people abuse the law (and I'm count both motorists and police officers, here) is a sure way of being treated even worse than we already are.
There is a serious case for some 1970s style 'information films' to debunk some of the awful misconceptions about road behaviour, that are (scarily) prevalent in today's society. (That last word may be an oxymoron, in this context)
Apart from generating a lot of publicity in favour of the facts.
The cyclist's attitude has destroyed any hope of that.
Nah. If you go about apologising when you've done nothing wrong, what's the point in apologising for anything? It obviously doesn't mean anything. The guy's a little bit of a knob but he wasn't stopped for being a knob so that's OK.
That's the point really.
That cyclist might have been an insufferable knob, rolling round Essex blasting Coldplay 🙄 and not exactly being respectful whilst being right, but he was right... Which is all that really matters when being accused of a fictional RT offence.
Was that music added afterwards, or were they actually listening to it as they were riding ?
Either way, very weird.
Apart from generating a lot of publicity in favour of the facts.
The cyclist's attitude has destroyed any hope of that.
Doesn't change the fact that the police officer was wrong, and proven to be wrong.
The problem is though, that just like nearly every other video it does nothing to improve the image of cyclists. There's probably a Daily Mail article now where they are frothing over the cyclists attitude, his choice of music, his funny clothing etc. No non-cyclists will be debating on whether they were in the right.
And I don't think an apology needs to be an admission of guilt.
"Thank you officer, I appreciate you were considering the safety of me and other road users, and I'm sorry you felt it warranted pulling us over on this occasion. I'll definitely consider very carefully when I choose to ride two abreast in future."
Doesn't change the fact that the police officer was wrong, and proven to be wrong.
Luckily no one suggested it did.
The problem is though, that just like nearly every other video it does nothing to improve the image of cyclists. There's probably a Daily Mail article now where they are frothing over the cyclists attitude, his choice of music, his funny clothing etc. No non-cyclists will be debating on whether they were in the right.
Exactly.
No non-cyclists will be debating on whether they were in the right.
I wouldn't say that. We're on the second page already.
Think they were right to challenge the police officer. I wish i'd challenged the police when they did nothing about the hit and run driver who knocked me off my bike.
What a colossal bellend. I'm not watching more than 30s due to his ****y attitude.
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"Thank you officer, I appreciate you were considering the safety of me and other road users, and I'm sorry you felt it warranted pulling us over on this occasion. I'll definitely consider very carefully when I choose to ride two abreast in future."
Which would have simply reinforces the police officers opinion that he was right.
The cyclist may have had a wonky attitude, and the police officer was at the other end of the spectrum.
Not sure how the cyclist could have reacted, whilst still standing up for what's right.
Well, yeah you may have a good point there. F$#@ it, threads like this just remind me why I much prefer riding on my own as far from traffic as I can.
I've recently had Police tell me to get "off the road" and onto the cycle lane next to it (CS3) and try to tell me I have no legal right to use the highway 🙁
I had a PCSO wind down the window on his Police van alongside me at 45km/h on a fast dual A road and tell me to "get off the road" and onto the cycle lane next to it 🙁
also had this from motorists more and more frequently in London, telling me to get off the road and onto cycle lanes....
Can anybody give me a transcript? My hearing isn't up to understanding anything the copper is saying - though from the comments it appears some of you lot can.
As for whether the cyclists should just tug his forelock and say "yes officer, sorry officer", I had a very similar incident. Was riding two abreast with my sister and got stopped by a policeman. I should point out that my sister did most of the talking not me, but the policeman went away enlightened and we were left to carry on as we were - but then in that case the policeman passed the attitude test!
People are always so quick to say "ooh that cyclists a dickhead" - but getting stopped by a STUPID copper while riding has got to be pretty bloody annoying and enough to make most people react aggressively or sound like a smartarse.
Obviously not the perfect examples of humanity who post on here, but most real people.
Agreed - it may be that I'm lacking the correct social skills to work this out, but how exactly do you respond to a copper acting like that without looking "a bit of a dick"?
[i]Can anybody give me a transcript?[/i]
You can't hear the first few things he says, but it gets clearer. And he's an idiot.
Just because the highway code says you can ride two abreast doesnt mean its always the right thing to do.
In groups of less than four i would question the benefit of two abreast for reducing overtaking time.
I would also question it being safe along that particular stretch of busy, fast moving road that has bollards and central road furniture.
I'd guess the morons were riding wide 2 abreast preventing people getting past, just look at the line of traffic that comes past
Do you know how much space you should give a cyclist when passing? Enough that you would need to drive onto the other side of the road anyway, so that the fact that the riders were two abreast makes no difference to the number of cars behind. If you can't move over to the other side of the road then it's not safe to pass, it's that simple.
Although the rider has red bits on his bib shorts and his bike/outfit is far too coordinated, and that was watching 2 seconds of the video, so he deserves all he gets. 🙂
[i]I would also question it being safe along that particular stretch of busy, fast moving road that has bollards and central road furniture.[/i]
Not having ridden there, I couldn't possibly comment on that, but surely the whole point is not whether the safety of the riders was in question, but the copper's interpretation of the law. And that he insisted that they were putting themselves and "other road users" in danger. And that they were causing people to drive dangerously. Maybe you agree with those things *shrugs*
[quote=trailwagger ]I would also question it being safe along that particular stretch of busy, fast moving road that has bollards and central road furniture.
Interesting - because the presence of central road furniture is one feature which definitively makes it safer riding two abreast!
I can't wait to see that on Police Interceptors.
trailwagger » I would also question it being safe along that particular stretch of busy, fast moving road that has bollards and central road furniture.
Not sure how that follows?
If I was riding on my own then I'd be likely to take the primary through the parts that have bollards and road furniture - you don't want someone trying to squeeze between you and a traffic island.
No much to add to this except I find many groups of riders around here (country lanes with very little in the way of straight bits of road) seem to be riding quite 'aggressively' almost looking for the opportunity to give anyone the finger if they dare to question the fact that they are riding two, or even three, abreast wherever they go.
Not sure how that follows?If I was riding on my own then I'd be likely to take the primary through the parts that have bollards and road furniture - you don't want someone trying to squeeze between you and a traffic island.
In towns yes i would take the lane, but on a 60mph road you will always get someone who thinks they have time to get around you before the island. I would rather not put myself in the way of them or the resulting carnage should they get it wrong.
I always assume the worst is going to happen and there will always be those drivers that dont obey the rules or drive without due care. Why put yourself in the middle of a fast moving lane like that just so you are able to have a chat with your mate?
on a 60mph road you will always get someone who thinks they have time to get around you before the island. I would rather not put myself in the way of them or the resulting carnage should they get it wrong.
Still don't get your logic. Surely if you ride at the kerb past an island then you [i]are[/i] putting yourself in danger, because it gives the impatient idiot behind you an opportunity to try to squeeze through?
In that situation I generally glance behind me and move to primary before I get the island then move back into secondary once I pass it. Ideally with a friendly thankyou wave if someone is behind me.
[quote=trailwagger ]In towns yes i would take the lane, but on a 60mph road you will always get someone who thinks they have time to get around you before the island. I would rather not put myself in the way of them or the resulting carnage should they get it wrong.
So you'd rather they squeeze by you past the island at 60mph? 🙄
DMs gonna froth about cyclists whatever you do, basing your behaviour on what DM think about it is probably a very bad precedent.There's probably a Daily Mail article now where they are frothing over the cyclists
Cyclist did come across as a bit of a div, but only a bit mind, could have handled it better but how you gonna react when your JRA and get pulled over for something you know to be legit? PC said something along lines of "you were making other drivers drive carelessly." that kind of attitude is bad enough in the majority of driving population, being held by a policeman is well ****ed up and he deserves a shit load of criticism if only for that.
Hmm think you could be projecting a bit there, probably says more about your attitude to roadies than their behaviour. Unless you live somewhere with a disproportionate number of knobber roadies of course 🙂[b]I find[/b] many groups of riders around here (country lanes with very little in the way of straight bits of road) [b]seem to be[/b] riding quite 'aggressively' almost looking for the opportunity to give anyone the finger
In a 30 zone yes i agree, but with some boy racer approaching you and the island at 60mph is he going to brake and wait for you to go through the reduced gap or is going to accelerate and try to beat you to it?
So at what point do you take the lane? Assuming you are head down and travelling in excess of 20mph, and the car aproaching you from behind is travelling at 60 mph? 100 meters before? 200 meters before? or maybe just 10 meters?
there isn't a right answer, take the lane and someone could mow you down or swipe yuo pulling in before pinch point, hug the kerb and someone could squeeze past, clip you and send you sprawling infront of following traffic - it happens.I would rather not put myself in the way of them or the resulting carnage should they get it wrong.
personal experience suggests primary stops [i]most[/i] of the close passes at pinch points so is my preference, still scary on fast roads, tend to avoid them nowadays tho (reading about what can/does happen isn't always helpful)
[quote=trailwagger ]In a 30 zone yes i agree, but with some boy racer approaching you and the island at 60mph is he going to brake and wait for you to go through the reduced gap or is going to accelerate and try to beat you to it?
Who knows? 100% certain he'll pass dangerously close if you hug the kerb though.
Because it puts you more in control of your space. The really dangerous drivers are always dangerous- what you're working on here is the careless, unthinking and negligent ones.
seem to be riding quite 'aggressively' almost looking for the opportunity to give anyone the finger
Whilst I don't agree with the entire sentiment of your post, I do think that the number of aggressive and bolshy cyclists is increasing*, but I have to wonder whether it's actually that [i]people [/i]are becoming more aggressive in modern society and that they'd be aggressive drivers too.
There's also the fact that it's hard not to get wound up and be a bit aggressive/react defensively when it's almost impossible to ride on the roads without being put in genuine physical danger at least once on the ride, even on my short commute someone will do something that puts me/others in danger most days.
personal experience suggests primary stops most of the close passes at pinch points so is my preference
mine too, and it means if the nobber does go for an overtake anyway you have some space to move into, rather than encouraging a close pass and genuinely having nowhere to go but the hedge.
* to the point where I've had to have a quiet word with a couple of our own (mostly newer**) members on club runs before 🙁
** there seems to be a phased thing going on
1> new rider => scared of traffic
2> a bit more confidence, but not necessarily enough experience => outrage and anger towards dodgy driving
3> at this point you either split and become a militant super angry road warrior staking your claim and standing up for your rights at every opportunity or...
4> confindent and experienced in dealing with and planning for the dodgy stuff => but continued disappointment about dodgy driving and occasional anger when something really scary happens
missed edit window...
One thing that a lot of people, especially people who don't ever ride a bike on the road, don't realise is that anger/aggression is actually [i]a perfectly natural response[/i] to a situation that puts you in danger, it's part of fight or flight. Feeling like you've come close to being squished is going to produce an emotional response, and if it happens regularly it's not unexpected for people to start feeling like that regularly when partaking in that activity.
Taking that ^ into account, a while back I tried a new approach when the inevitable clashes have happened with motorists, instead of angrily ranting and raving about how bad they are I've told them how scared they made me, eg: last one, after a van overtook and left hooked me into a side road, once I got him to wind down the window I told him he scared the crap out of me and that I thought he was going to drag me under his wheels. I was genuinely fearful but obviously played it up a bit, the point being that they react differently when they see another human scared and distressed vs angry and shouty.
It normally results in an apology and them [i]actually [/i]realising they did something dangerous, where as ranting often just makes people defensive.
I imagine something similar would happen with this case, if you're riding along legally minding your own business and then get pulled over by a policeman with such a staggering lack of knowledge and understanding as that, then you'll probably find it hard not to be wound up and annoyed right from the start!
The only other option would have been to just laugh at the ridiculousness of it all!
I agree, although I do wonder about some of the route/road choices that are made as some are not very suitable.There's also the fact that it's hard not to get wound up and be a bit aggressive/react defensively when it's almost impossible to ride on the roads without being put in genuine physical danger at least once on the ride, even on my short commute someone will do something that puts me/others in danger most days
after a good shout at the perpetrator I normally end up a quivering wreck as the adrenaline spikes/wears off. Get serious sewing machine leg about 2 mins after an incident/scare, try writing/typing details when your hands are shaking....anger/aggression is actually a perfectly natural response to a situation that puts you in danger,
I agree, although I do wonder about some of the route/road choices that are made as some are not very [i]suitable[/i].
Define suitable? If my requirement is to get to work as quickly and directly as possible then the busy route might well be the most suitable.
Roads are there to link places together, they very thing that makes them busy (directness, surface, gradient, capacity etc.) are also exactly why people choose to use them regardless of mode of transport.
While you can plan your rides to stay off busy roads, and many people do, there is also an element of why should they?
If your primary goal is 'traffic free' then you might not use the busy routes.
But if your primary goal is 'to get from place A to place B as directly and quickly as possible' then it's a different decision.
And the thing is, everybody has different priorities and they may even change depending on situation, when I'm commuting or running errands directness/speed and surface are higher up my list, when training it might be gradient or surface, riding for leisure scenery and 'traffic free' are higher up.
People shouldn't be forced to use different routes to their optimal simply because some people can't drive safely around other users. The road/route itself is perfectly suitable, it's the actions other that might make it dangerous/unsuitable, and if that is the case, the fix should be to correct the behaviour of the users doing dangerous things, not to gradually force legitimate users off the route.
after a good shout at the perpetrator I normally end up a quivering wreck as the adrenaline spikes/wears off. Get serious sewing machine leg about 2 mins after an incident/scare, try writing/typing details when your hands are shaking....
I imagine most people are the same, I know I am, but by that point the driver has normally left and has another anecdote about 'ranty cyclists' to tell his mates. Sad thing is if they were to see the after effects, a person shaking and scared, they'd likely have a completely different reaction, natural human decency/empathy would (should) kick in, but that rarely happens as it's all over by then and they're off down the road in a grump.
[quote=amedias ]Taking that ^ into account, a while back I tried a new approach when the inevitable clashes have happened with motorists, instead of angrily ranting and raving about how bad they are I've told them how scared they made me, eg: last one, after a van overtook and left hooked me into a side road, once I got him to wind down the window I told him he scared the crap out of me and that I thought he was going to drag me under his wheels. I was genuinely fearful but obviously played it up a bit, the point being that they react differently when they see another human scared and distressed vs angry and shouty.
Good advice - thanks. I'll try and remember that.
I agree and I shall try that as well
I agree and will forget your wise words when the red mist descends!
Is this our mate?
That's very odd. If its was two cars with blue lights on doing that I'd guess it was a rolling block - they involve a fair bit of swerving/weaving. But I don't know if bikes get involved in that sort of thing.
The road/route itself is perfectly suitable, it's the actions other that might make it dangerous/unsuitable, and if that is the case, the fix should be to correct the behaviour of the users doing dangerous things, not to gradually force legitimate users off the route
I agree with this sentiment - not sure whether it's too late to reverse the current state of poor attitudes towards what constitutes acceptable road behaviour, though.
[quote=belugabob ]
The road/route itself is perfectly suitable, it's the actions other that might make it dangerous/unsuitable, and if that is the case, the fix should be to correct the behaviour of the users doing dangerous things, not to gradually force legitimate users off the route
I agree with this sentiment - not sure whether it's too late to reverse the current state of poor attitudes towards what constitutes acceptable road behaviour, though.
Drink driving went being from being normal and acceptable to a taboo for most folk.
Maybe the policeman has his illegal two abreast scenario confused with this..
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Bet he would still have stopped them two for some closer investigation. 🙂