What would you do first? Doh?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article7012913.ece

Surely to god you'd just knock it out of gear and stop? Even an auto has neutral……..

I wouldnt trust the kind of person who buys a Toyota Aygo to turn off the oven, let alone think of using the clutch 😉

I'm damned bloody sure I could stop a car with a stuck accelerator quicker than I could dial 999.

I remember the accelerator sticking in my Polo when I was a new driver. A friend had to point out that I could kill it by turning the key but even at 17 depressing the clutch seemed the natural thing to do. Darwin Award nomination for the family, god (of their choosing) rest their souls.

assume this is the guy who ran the SUV type thing off the end of a freeway? (can't access article) The audio recording of the 911 call was awful to listen to.

I just can't understand why he didn't put it in neutral. Blind panic maybe?
Or perhaps it's a software bug (Steve Wozniak was interviewed about something similar today too but about the Prius specifically – apparently he also has a repeatable testcase for it)

can you wang an auto that is pulling hard into neutral?

its clutchless isnt it… so would the shifter actually move?

someone I used to work with put her stiletto heel through the floor of her aging Renault 5 and jammed the accelerator down.

she had the presence of mind to drop the clutch, take her foot out of the shoe and brake to a halt. She spent some time with the engine racing tryign to get her shoe out of the floor before she turned the ignition off though. The heel ended up needing hammering back through from the other side!

hold on and pray. . . pray

I guess they thought something other than turning the car off was going to save them…

Not sure that it has a key either

I have twice been on motorbikes that have had throttles stuck wide open, both on the track [TZ350 & TZ700] I crashed both times but in my defence it was at racing speed & I was on the [my] limit anyway

I think it's a bit short sighted to just assume it was an easy situation to get out of. According to the article the guy was a traffic cop so should be used to high speed driving.

I'm going to assume a combination of keyless ignition, auto-box quirks, cooked brakes or other such mechanical and electronic oddities caused a situation he couldn't get out of.

It's easy to sit at a computer and dismiss him as stupid for not trying hard enough to save the lives of his entire family.

It's entirely possibel with the new keyless ignitions that they're programmed ot not switch off if the vehicle is going over a certain speed, of course.

A friend had to point out that I could kill it by turning the key but even at 17 depressing the clutch seemed the natural thing to do.

Well as someone pointed out in the comments on that article, if you turn the key your steering will lock and you'll lose braking assist. 😯

So I guess slam in the clutch, ignore screaming engine, brake hard then kill the ignition once stopped to prevent the engine destroying itself. Not sure if I'd think of that at the time, but I'm pretty sure I'd give something a go before dialling 911!

(Oh the article says he had no brakes either, so maybe he'd tried that already)

You're right, jackthedog.

graham – steering lock only engages when the key is removed, not in ignition off position.

You do lose anti lock braking and the steering servos but I wouldnt expect to be going forward much longer! 🙂

if you turn the key your steering will lock and you'll lose braking assist

This was an 84 Polo so brake or steering power were not applicable, rather less tech than a modern Lexus I would agree.

Autos usualy have a hydraulic transmission, basilcy two impellers roatating in a liquid. The faster one spins the faster the other spins, its kind of like driving arround with the clutch pushed in 5%. At motorway speeds the transmision locks (the two plates get pushed together) to improve efficiency.

After that you have a series of planetary gears (think of it like a big hammersmidt) with hydraulic circuits regulating which ones are in use, put your foot down and pressure builds up, opens a valve, drops into a lower gear, reach a constant speed, pressure drops, valve closes and engages a higher gear. So in effect when you'r in 3rd (for example) your also in 1st and 2nd as well.

Modern ones do it all electronicaly.

Even more modern 'semi automatics' are just the normal (occasionaly dog-bone) gearbox with an automatic shifter.

So yes, its perfectly possible to have an automatic stuck in gear, it wont stall as the box just drops it into 1st and keeps pulling, and the ECU probably wont let the engine cut out whist your moving (you'd destroy the cat for a start)

the ECU probably wont let the engine cut out whist your moving

Reminds me of the old story where the new fly-by-wire plane prevented the captain from pulling up to avoid the ground, as the manoeuvre would exceed the permitted maximum strain on the wings!

my throttles always sticking, but then again its a 30yr old MG so its par for the course.

I remember the accelerator sticking in my Polo

so not just me then.

I had my engine run away in my first car. Not a sticking throttle, but a slipping cable on the choke (had just been into a garage for something). Much easier with an old manual car like that – depress clutch, apply brakes, ignore screaming engine. I'm sure the driver in that story didn't have at least one of those options.

I cannot imagine a situation where any typical car cannot be stopped by modern brakes, regardless of the gear it's in. Equally, if it's a fly-by-wire accelerator pedal then it'll shut off engine power when it detects the brake or clutch pedal depressed – my 2003 Passat does this and I fail to see how a more modern car would be different.

Sadly, these "car has gone out of control but I'll phone the police" scenarios aren't that rare and are simply people looking for attention. Sadly, they got the wrong kind of attention in this case.

Dab the brakes a couple of times with the throttle open and you lose the brake servo. Virtually no brakes, no key, no clutch and a locked box – you're stuffed. Attempting to spin the thing using the handbrake or pendulum is all I can come up with.

It is a sad shame it happened, but surely they'd have tryed everything? pulling the key card out or locking on the handbrake whilst braking or pulling out all the fuses, or even trying to force the accelerator up by hand. If theres enough time to dial 911 and have at least tens seconds on the phone one of those would have been on my mind, but then they might have been trying them too.

In the one I saw on the news, the driver claimed his brakes would not work (seems odd to me but there you go)

To be fair to these guys the 911 call may have saved a load of other lives.

Just seen this article on the News at 10 on ITV. Looks like a really serious problem over there. Cars being dumped either at dealers till there fixed and dumped on the side of the road, too scared to drive them. I didn't see which one, but there was a American Politician telling people to stop driving their car straight away. Cue panic! 🙄
Bit more info here
Should have stuck with right hand drive. 😛

There was a similar problem back in the 90's with the Jag XJ R – the throttle position sensors were failing locking them full on & the relationship between this & all the other electronic gubbins meant there was no way of switching off, the gear box could only be manually changed below a certain speed & the brakes would not operate whilst you were 'accellerating'.

Fortunately there weren't that many on the road so it didn't become a major issue (unless you were driving one of course).

Was this a software problem or a mechanical one?

If you can turn off the ignition (assuming its a key not a card) but leave the car in gear, you'll still have engine braking, and as the engine is turning, you'll still have power steering and brakes. If you hold the clutch in, all assistance will stop.

Read the article people he was a traffic cop I'm pretty sure he didn't willingly take his family through an intersection at speed. Also, the 911 call will make it clear that it was a technical issue and not a suicide attempt, plus it'll be recorded so Toyota can't deny it.

I still don't get how there are not multiple methods of slowing the car. Crash barriers, hand brakes etc. Hard to imagine he didn't try though, but it does beg the question about fly-by-wire and taking too much control away from people I suppose. Problem is that tends to create a knee-jerk reaction against it, which is stupid too.

Audio here

I get the impression from the initial comparatively calm tone of voice that that they'd had the issue for a little while and had run out of options – "we've got no brakes". I think the intersection came up on them quicker than they realised. Very sad.
Cars may be safer now than 20 years ago but the potential for problems has to be multiple times higher.

Equally, if it's a fly-by-wire accelerator pedal then it'll shut off engine power when it detects the brake or clutch pedal depressed – my 2003 Passat does this and I fail to see how a more modern car would be different.

Not all modern cars do this.

My Toyota has a push button ignition (bit of a stupid gimmick imo) and if you press the button when moving nothing happens ie the car stays 'on'. Also I am not sure if you press the brake the throttle cuts, haven't tried it. You can still shift into neutral tho, I know that for a fact, but it's all electronic not a mechanical traditional auto.

I suspect that even a traditional auto should be able to be shifted into neutral at speed. There's a law saying it has to be D N R P in that order since people were always accidentally shifting in to reverse from drive, so I am guessing neutral is possible. That's also the advice that they gave out in the US for pepole in runaway cars.

From http://articles.latimes.com/2009/oct/25/nation/na-toyota-crash25?pg=2

the vehicle's brake surfaces showed signs that they had been worn down through heavy braking against the full force of the 272-horsepower Lexus engine.

"Rotors were discolored and heated, had very rough surfaces, had substantial deposits of brake pad material, and showed signs of bright orange oxidation on the cooling fins consistent with endured braking," the report said.

NHTSA investigators also noted that instructions for operating the car's keyless ignition, which requires that the power button be pressed for three full seconds to turn off the engine while the car is moving, were "not indicated on the dashboard."

Double post

This has been going on for months, I've been waiting for the panic over here.
Toyota appear to be coming out of this extremely badly, in the US their sales have fallen compared to Fomoco and Goverment Motors.
The previous fix for this problem was a recall to fit "new floor mats". Toyota is so going to get sued.

NHTSA investigators also noted that instructions for operating the car's keyless ignition, which requires that the power button be pressed for three full seconds to turn off the engine while the car is moving, were "not indicated on the dashboard."

Interesting.. my car is probly the same, but I didn't know about that.

I'm damned bloody sure I could stop a car with a stuck accelerator quicker than I could dial 999.

Throttle cable snapped on my 106 that I had when I was 17, leaving the throttle wide open and lunging for the rev limiter.

So I knocked it out of gear, coasted onto the side of the road and switched the ignition off. Then called someone with a trailer to come and pick me up…

Did I die? No… Did I have time to call 999? No… Pretty immediate reaction once I felt the throttle jammed open was to knock it out of gear (which you can of course still do in an auto FFS!), which I did withing perhaps a second or 2 of realising the throttle was wide open. Even with 999 on speed dial and my mobile in my hand already, would've taken 10 to 15 seconds to make the call…

Sorry, not much sympathy I'm afraid…

Mavboy – the theory is that when an auto is under full load it would be too hard to knock into N, and that they had an electronic ignition that you can't turn off.

Anyway – panicing and not thinking of what to do should not be punishable by death you cretin.

maverick=cock