I certainly wouldn’t dispute that their are loads of ti bikes that have given good service. There’s far too many variables involved to explain why one cracks and another does not. I agree that all materials fatigue and rust,crack,snap whatever. But I bet if you had accurate failure rates, the amount of people who’s ti bike cracked under low stress/normal load would far out weight all the broken ali,steel,carbon frames out there per bike sold..seems indisputable to me…

But I bet if you had accurate failure rates, the amount of people who’s ti bike cracked under low stress/normal load would far out weight all the broken ali,steel,carbon frames out there

Pure speculation, or as you put it, a bet. Worthless.

thought probably goes something like “ti is strong as steel and half the weight.. so we’ll build it like a steel bike and it’ll be nice and light”. except that doesn’t work. dunno IAMNAE.

also speculation for you cynic-al 🙂

thought probably goes something like “ti is strong as steel and half the weight

I don’t think it is though, is it?

What’s a lightish steel frame? My Explosif is about 4lb 4oz, and I don’t think my otherwise identical Hei Hei (which cracked…. 🙁 ) was much more than 1lb less than that, so not even 3/4 of the weight….

I own three elderly hardtail frames. A ’97 steel Rocky Mountain, a ’97 alu Univega and a ’99 ti Airborne, which was modified to take discs by (whisper it) Vernon Barker.

All three seem to ride just fine. Should I worry? Will I die? If so, which one will kill me dead first?

PP I think if meant density.

Al

Density of Ti = 4.506g/cm3
Density of Steel (variable as its an alloy) is around 7.9g/cm3

So no. It’s not half the weight 🙂

Strength, from what I can google, is roughly similar, yes. But the facts I can find don’t relate to bicycle tubing in any way. For instance, all us cyclists know that Reynolds 853 is stronger than most other tubing and actually gets stronger when heated at the welds, yes?

Scratch that! Just found the facts;

Reynolds 6Al-4V Titanium – Seamless ELI Grade. UTS: 900-1150 MPa, density 4.42 g/cm3
Reynolds 853 – Seamless air-hardening heat-treated. UTS: 1250-1400 MPa, density 7.78 g/cm3

So it’s not half the weight and nor it is as strong as a quality steel.
And now we know why it breaks.

Here endeth the thread. 😉

They are building them too light. If they aimed for 4 lbs frame weight on the hardtails instead of 3.5 lbs you would standing a better chance of longevity. As it is they are shaving too much off the tubes and they break.

I’m still absolutely astounded that people are still prepared to buy a frame which is made from a material completely unsuitable for hard off road use

Good point that – Ti is notorious for not being able to handle mud accumulation.

ELI (extra low interstitial) is a medical grade wonder if when it breaks it gets inserted somewhere

I have some of that inserted in me- I have been told it is a race between my collarbone healing and the plate or screws fatigue fracturing. I’m hoping for the former

Ti sounds cool, add in some marketing and its not surprising people buy and worship Ti bikes.

I used to work in the motor racing industry in the 90’s. We built racing cars, all using steel for the chassis. Ti would just fracture / break. It was also too costly / difficult to work with and consequently a write off when needing repairs. Racing cars are built to be light as well as takeing forces from all directions – just like a mountain bike.

When you build racing cars that have to win you ignore the hype, you get an engineer to calculate for you what will work best. We did make some F1 exhaust systems out of Ti, cost a flippin fortune and cracked pretty much every other race. In the end we started using Inconel, which was better but a basturd to weld.

On the subject of bone screws…

http://global.smith-nephew.com/us/21630.htm

On the subject of bone screws…

http://global.smith-nephew.com/us/21630.htm

Low profile plate and screws reduce the potential for soft tissue and tendon irritation

has to be the best ever USP

I have some questions? how tall are you? how much do you weigh? and can I see a photo of your ass with a ruler next to it, just incase? are you fond of brake dancing on your nuts?

RE: Moots pic in page 1 – frame was sent back to Moots who replaced it with a brand new one – how’s that for customer service !

kaesae – Member

can I see a photo of your ass?

You’re weird.