I might be wrong (and to be fair I often am :D) but I was under the impression that the burqa isn't specifically mentioned in the Qu'ran and that it's a cultural thing particular to Muslims rather than a religous thing as such.
The Qu'ran merely says something along the lines of women should protect their modesty - it's the culture over the years which has developed the burqa and chador.
all religions hate women....
Well, that's pretty much wrong as a wrong thing. The three 'religions of the book' certainly but even then I know Marian catholics who reject much of the doctrinal teachings of their church and see Mary as a Goddess in her own right who is to be worshipped over and above the male trinity. And that's just catholicism, ffs.
Banning peoples clothes? Nah,leave it out. If they want to look like dickheads then let 'em.
whatever.
What evidence are you all using to insist theyare forced to wear it BTW?
Dunno Junkyard, guess your right. I bet arranged marriages are all consensual as well with no pressure huh.
Nice leap and avoidance of the issue
Yes arranged is CONSENSUAL and FORCED in non consensual. Check the law.
Clearly the low rates of divorce in the Liberal west (and the separation rates amongst those who cohabit - which are actually higher) shows our cultural superiority in the marriage/relationship department.
Dobski The Koran asks both genders to dress modestly for men this means being covered from the naval downwards and for women from the head downwards (there is debate as to whether hands and face are ok though
Tell the faithful women to lower their gaze and guard their private parts and not display their beauty except what is apparent of it [hands/face possible interpretation], and to extend their scarf to cover their bosom
Koran, 24:31 (English translation)
[doffs cap]Very funny post Mr. Lynch
According to one Muslim woman all that is required is for arms and legs and torso to be covered. There is no requirement for a scarf or headcovering. The burka is a Saudi creation adopted by male dominated societies to subjugate women. I really believe some more aggressive Muslim women in western society have adopted the burka as a '**** you' to westerners, rather like hoodies have been adopted by certain segments of western teen culture. I could be wrong, but that's certainly the way their attitude comes across to me.
As the burka isn't a religious thing, we can't be accused of stirring muslim hatred by banning it.
Junkyard no one tells me what to wear nor who my girlfriend lives with, her marital status or what to wear. Stop your appeasement please. I'm a known Islamaphobe. I find it repulsive and thats a off a forum/serious personal view. We live in a democracy. We dont live under Sharia nor (if you want to go broader) a Catholic state either. I know you'll argue inbetween the lines that not all Muslims have to go the whole shebang but Im not interested. Seriously.
My only issue, is that natural expression between people largely comes in the form of body language, as well as spoken words.
If someone wishes to communicate with me, in an open honest fasion, I expect to see their body language, so that I can judge if what I am being told is correct. I know telephone communications fall into this, but you cant turn your back on technology, and I also have a right to put a phone down.
With that, should someone wish to interact with me, in a way I cannot judge the veracity of their actions, then I, finding that behaviour socially rude, reserve the right to ignore the person who does not do me the courtesey of being willing to interact with me in anopen honest way.
Wear your burka by all means, you have that freedom, but don't expect me to respect you for it. Thats my freedom of expression. I wont offend you, as manners are important, andI also realise the responsibility of my right not to offend, with my freedom to chose who and how I interact.
My objection is to the face being covered. As a society we value seeing faces and it is our main form of identification. I feel offended if the face is covered since it means that I am not being treated with respect.
As a Northern Irishman I feel my human rights are being breeched as we are never allowed to wear our national head dress. I'm banned from banks post offices, hotels, hospitals anywhere you can imagine.
My civil rights are being infringed at every cut and turn. When everyone else in society has rights the people of Ulster are constantly denied theres. And for why?!
It makes my blood boil!!!!
Please save our national head dress - GIVE GENEROUSLY!
hora
the British Runnymede Trust defined Islamophobia as the "dread or hatred of Islam and therefore, to the fear and dislike of all Muslims," stating that it also refers to the practice of discriminating against Muslims by excluding them from the economic, social, and public life of the nation. It includes the perception that Islam has no values in common with other cultures, is inferior to the West and is a violent political ideology rather than a religion.[4]
I dont really care how anyone dresses it is their choice Hora you know like we have in a democracy.
As far as I can see there is only one person here saying what females can and cannot wear ...who is oppressing who? Who is imposing their view on who?
I totally suppport the French and less bowing down to any religion and any sexism.
If you don't like the views of the country-then move out. If I went to Iran I would obey their rules. If I go to France or England etc I'd obey their rules too.
About time someone stood up to anti social ideology. Sorry if I sound offensive to any religious peeps but it's not the dark ages anymore.
Even Islam is misunderstood by it's followers. If God does exist-would god want you to kill and cover yourself head to toe? Bull$hit.
TS: I was coming to that .... 
Zaskar - seconded.
but it's not the dark ages anymore.
Sure it's still the dark ages.
That's why we can tell people what they should, and shouldn't wear.
That's why we can show intolerance to other people's religious views.
Down with the age of enlightenment, long live the dark ages. Burn the witches.
If you don't like the views of the country-then move out. If I went to Iran I would obey their rules. If I go to France or England etc I'd obey their rules too.
Fair enough, but both France and England are (to all intents and purposes) free countries, so if women want to wear the burka then that's up to them and their families. Imagine the hysterical reaction if someone told Sikhs that they shouldn't wear turbans. And is the "burka oppresses women" argument any more valid than the tabloids and stupid magazines that put women under pressure to be horribly thin?
May I add that I do beleive in God. However I dont beleive in a fellow man telling me that he has a direct-contact with God whereas I don't. A sort of modern-day witchdoctor, one upmanship. I don't beleive in organised religion, with control parameters. Sorry yet again if I offend anyone with these views.
The Burka should be strongly discouraged in Britain as it's offensive for anyone to cover their face in western culture.
As Western women respect the culture when visiting arab countries by covering up, Muslims who live here should respect our culture.
We tolerate all faiths in the UK, far more than than in most parts of the Middle East.
It's a simple give and take compromise - something we Brits excel at IMHO. Or would becoming tolerant be regarded as an erosion of a Muslim's human rights and we'd get sued?
Let's have a bit of balance shall we!
hora - MemberI dont beleive in a fellow man telling me that he has a direct-contact with God whereas I don't
Sure you have .......... you can email direct :
:lol:PMSL at ernie_lynch
Sure you have .......... you can email direct :
and get through to some blokes who look likes extras on Das Boot? 
G - MemberTS: I was coming to that ....
Had to happen mate! 
We tolerate all faiths in the UK, far more than than in most parts of the Middle East.It's a simple give and take compromise - something we Brits excel at IMHO. Or would becoming tolerant be regarded as an erosion of a Muslim's human rights and we'd get sued?
Spongebob - you don't think we've reached saturation point then?
"I dont think we should be shy anymore about telling Muslim women that full face burka is rude and unaceptable in the West."
Since when? Nothing wrong at all with covering your face. If you personally find it offensive that's fair enough, but don't pretend it's some universal norm, because it's just not.
Actually thinking about it theres a few munters I know who would look better in a burka...
Fair enough, but both France and England are (to all intents and purposes) free countries, so if women want to wear the burka then that's up to them and their families.
Do they want to, though - that's the point, innit?
Imagine the hysterical reaction if someone told Sikhs that they shouldn't wear turbans.
IIRC it is already illegal in France to wear clothes that show your religion in (not too sure...) state employment, and that the FIRST person to be prosecuted under that law was a Sikh.
And is the "burka oppresses women" argument any more valid than the tabloids and stupid magazines that put women under pressure to be horribly thin?
Maybe not, but no-one is saying "if a girl wants to die of starvation, it's her choice"; they're campaigning to end that pressure
Since when? Nothing wrong at all with covering your face. If you personally find it offensive that's fair enough, but don't pretend it's some universal norm, because it's just not
Covering your face is not offensive - in fact in some cases I recommend it. Being obliged to cover your face by a custom that classes women alongside barnyard animals is offensive, at best.
full face burka is rude and unaceptable in the West.
I know that it's not suppose to have that effect, but I actually find it a bit of a turn on.
It's like having a 'gift wrapped' babe to me.
Am I sick ?
Yes.
it's offensive for anyone to cover their face in western culture.
No it's not. In some cases it should be positively encouraged; gurning dimwits on television (I'd welcome never having to see 'Wossy' or Ross Kemp's idiotic fizzogs again) and the less aesthetically pleasing. Imagine: Buffoons and ugly women hidden away. It would be, quite literally, a godsend! Insha'Allah!
Not sick - just getting that Taliban vibe.
As a Muslim friend said to me - "can you imagine how many poems are written in my language about a woman's eyes?"
I had the misfortune to be a teenager when girls were wearing long skirts. If I saw a knee I'd **** myself senseless for days. People go with what they have, and a religion, or culture, that tries to stop people thinking about sex is going to fail sure as eggs is eggs.
It's like having a 'gift wrapped' babe to me.Am I sick ?
Not at all, secrecy and seduction are closely related things. More of a lucky dip tho', eh?
More of a lucky dip tho', eh?
Could be a chocolate truffle or a boiled Brussels sprout.
26.
DrJ - MemberMore of a lucky dip tho', eh?
Could be a chocolate truffle or a boiled Brussels sprout.
Posted 4 minutes ago # Report-Post
Spongebob - you don't think we've reached saturation point then?
Not at all! A multi-cultural Britain is enriching in many positve ways. I embrace it. This is not a race issue! Why can't people get their heads round the fact that tolerance of different cultures and religions is a two way street? That means we all live together and make compromises. If one religious group decide they want to go off the end of the scale and impose an alien culture to the extent that it disregards and disrespects other cultures, they must surely realise they are going to be met with contempt. There are wise people in all cultures, all walks of life, so what the heck is going on here?
Balance! That is what I avocate. We need to look for what we have in common, not what sets us apart!
Religion can easily become highly divisive. For the past decade or so, it has become nuch more of an issue in the UK, but I don't really know why. We all used to live in relative peace, but look at what has happened in places like Bradford for example - a fiercely divided community - very sad!
Some say we are experiencing the Islamification of Europe and that these extremist Imam preachers of hate have come and poisened the minds of good European citizens. I don't think people are that stupid are they? Conversely, opposers of these ideas irrationally react by shrieking "racist", that the objectors must surely be akin to Hitler and the Nazis etc. It is NOT racism! It's this sort of bullying reaction, the and irrational silencing of free speech, that means for example; idiots like the BNP not getting the opportunity fully expose their nasty hidden agenda - to victimise good people, people who contribute a great deal to society, but who happen to have the wrong colour skin. We can't debate why the Muslim community have been ramping up their crusade to convert ethnic communities to a much more authoritarian Islamic doctrine. Challenging this would be so politically incorrect, but what about the abuses that people are suffering as a result of this? It is not ok to beat your wife, or to disrespect Jews, or homosexuals. I listened to BBC R4 woman's hour about a group of muslim women who are in fear of their lives. Honour killings, forced marriages. All sorts of abuses of human rights brought about by Islamic culture. Sorry guys, but this matter needs to be aired!
I stand for peace, freedom and anti-stupidity. No religion fits in with this i'm afraid. Superstition is something born out of fear and ignorance. We really need to rid ourselves of this mumbo jumbo!
We need to be able to ask why there is so much hostility towards British culture. Why so many good people have rejected compromise and respect for others. My guess is they have either been bullied into it, brainwashed, or both.
(waiting for some unthinking person to call me a racist or right wing extremist - i'm neither, so don't waste your time)
I'll carry on observing. I hope my take on the situation turns out to be wrong.
That's terrific Spongebob and very well put. In Ulster I always stood for the rights of man, live and let live, the populist vote - but my views, like yours, will become unimportant when swept away in religous fundamentalism be that Christian, Islam, Jewish or whatever - you, me and every other twit on here will never be interviewed by the media, our voices will never be heard as we are too moderate for their tastes - unpallatable maybe but true. The fact is as with NI this country will slide into minority rule - it already has - do 'normal' people get air time? No.
It's the OJ Simpsons, the Michael Jacksons, the Gerry Adams, the Abu Hamza al-Masris who are listened to. Moderate voices such as yours and (surprisingly) mine are lost in todays world as they do not sell one inch of news print...
I feel violated if women wearing burka look at me. I feel naked as they check me out from head to toe. I want to sue. It is a gross violation of my human rights.
This topic has been closed to new replies.
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