Again it's bloody irrelevant. We're looking at a moral judgement of right and wrong. Citing a defence used by nazis to attempt to justify genocide is lazy.
Lying to idiots is obviously not so unquestionable. Everyone has a difference as to what is acceptable; speeding, tax evasion etc.
I don't agree or disagree with his mission. As I said earlier I am not best placed to judge who merits spying on and would hazard a guess neither is anyone else on here. I bet the bloke never joined the police to be abused by his masters the way he has. He is certainly not the devil incarnate as some on here would have us think.
Chat Forum
This Mark Kennedy story about undercover policemen
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Posted 3 months ago #
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khani’s analogy to the extermination camps was crass and idiotic - and I think in retrospect he knows that - but his point is valid, in that ultimately, no matter what position we hold in society, we are all individually accountable for our actions. Perhaps Mr Kennedy lacked the moral fibre to extricate himself from a situation that he and others allowed to spiral out of control. I’ve not seen the documentary and don’t know much about the circumstances, but maybe he developed relationships that he didn’t want to end and therefore was inclined to allow the duplicity to carry on - not being able to turn his emotions off.
Undoubtedly he was let down by senior officers (his handlers) who failed to govern his actions and provide him with clear, proportionate legal aims & directives. Or if they did, failed to check he was following them at regular periods.
The whole sorry business was a big waste of time and energy and clearly shows the pitfalls of an officer doing SEVEN years of UC work. It’s hardly an unforeseeable shocker that allowing an officer to assume another identity for that long, living that double life, could change his psyche and mindset and things might go pear shaped.
I think it would make a good film or BBC drama ... and personally I’d cast Daniel Mays as the officer!
Posted 3 months ago # -
Its not irrelevant Wrecker - you are trying to justify his conduct by saying "he was only following orders" that is no defence in law. Nuremberg made that defence no longer permissible in any situation including this one.
Its not about a moral judgement - that would be that his actions were justified - thats a different argument to "I was only following orders"
Posted 3 months ago # -
I CBA with your usual tricks TJ. Same as before, I know full well what you're like and will not be drawn into a wall butting never ending concentrate on one thing bore fest with you and I never will. You've just killed the thread. Well done.
Take it as a victory if you like. I just don't care.Posted 3 months ago # -
khani’s analogy to the extermination camps was crass and idiotic - and I think in retrospect he knows that
Yes, apologies for that,
not the best analogy, just the first to spring to mind hearing the term 'only following orders' used..
Sorry peeps...Posted 3 months ago # -
I am not the only one to make that point. several of us have. You called it irrelvant and crass - I merely pointed out where you were wrong IMO
deluded - Member
khani’s ...................
but his point is valid, in that ultimately, no matter what position we hold in society, we are all individually accountable for our actions.Northwind - Member
It's not a direct comparison or an attempt to make a moral equivalence, surely that's obvious? It's just a way of pointing out that "I was only following orders" doesn't absolve anyone of blame.
Posted 3 months ago # -
If my boss told me do something ilegal or imoral i'd tell them to get stuffed, as would most honest people.
Posted 3 months ago # -
TJ made a valid point, saying he killed the thread is a *cop out.
*see what I did there?
Posted 3 months ago # -
TJ - actually wrecker just called it irrelevant (not crass). You're conflating posts!
Posted 3 months ago # -
Oops
Posted 3 months ago # -
So the more important point then - is it morally justifiable to spy on non violent protest groups in this way - basic intelligence gathering perhaps but deep cover infiltration like this? is it proportionate and commensurate? is it a good use of resources?
the groups are not going to cause any harm to life and limb - its not the IRA or even the ALF -
Posted 3 months ago # -
Alien Life Forms ??
Posted 3 months ago # -
They are just trying to beat any form of protest against the goverment with a big stick.
Alien life forms.
Posted 3 months ago # -
wrecker your point is childish at best and immoral at worst. only following orders!! the reason Nuremberg is mentioned is because you are not the first imbecile to use that argument and the Nuremberg trials is where that argument ends. people are just skipping to the end.
what is your point ? that his bosses should be locked up?Posted 3 months ago # -
Jonah, if you want to get personal and tough guy about it take it to PM. Otherwise STFU.
Posted 3 months ago # -
Animal liberation front - known to plant the odd car bomb IIRC
Posted 3 months ago # -
wrecker - Member
Jonah, if you want to get personal and tough guy about it take it to PM. Otherwise STFU.
Posted 3 months ago # -
TandemJeremy - Member
Animal liberation front - known to plant the odd car bomb IIRCAnd the rest. Violent, unpleasant ****s who had no intention of ever doing anything about animal rights. I've been on the receiving end of their particular brand of "liberation" and it was no peaceful protest. It hurt animals and people. They are, quite simply, ****s. As in James Blunts.
Posted 3 months ago # -
sorry wrecker someone told me to say it
Posted 3 months ago # -
I've got another semi
Posted 3 months ago # -
jonah tonto - Member
sorry wrecker someone told me to say it
Good work!
Posted 3 months ago # -
yossarian - Member
I've got another semi
Rachman.
Posted 3 months ago #
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