My trusty Singular Swift feels a bit out of its depth sometimes.

My amazing wife has said it would be OK for me to get something a bit more capable (so it can be a colour other than pale blue).

I’m not having another suspension bike which has dozens of bearings in constant need of love and attention, I couldn’t stand the disappointment.

It needs to be a 29er, because, reasons.

I’ve had a demo on a Cotic Flare(Max), and an Orange Four (so pretty close to a Segment I guess). I liked both, but they are very different.

What is STW’s advice? Anything else I should look at?

Not ridden a Four, but I’d expect the Segment (which I have ridden and really liked) to be a bit different to it. The Flare has more bearings than to Orange bikes too.

Of the two mentioned above, I’d go for the Cotic because…… Well just because I like Cotic’s to be honest. There are 6 roller bearings in the Flare frame as well as two bushes- the Orange does have fewer bearings

Had you thought of Trek EX 29er? A couple of mates have them, one alloy, the other carbon. Both really rate them.

I’d still take the Cotic

I am a fully signed up Cotic fan, great bikes and looking at another to go with my BFe. Flare looks great. Cotic make bikes suited to the UK and with an eye on maintenance requirements. They are doing lots of demos so contact them and ask what’s up ? Cy etc are very approachable and helpful.

Now that being said Orange are also a well regarded British company with a long track record of making bikes well suited to the UK

TBH I think you’ll be fine on either. Let us know and happy shopping.

Do you fancy applying to go on the completely-non-kinky-despite-the-title TV show Wife Swap?

You can have my wife when you prize her from my cold dead hands…. 🙂

It’s only for a week, which is more than enough time to receive permission and buy a new bike. I wouldn’t expect anyone not suitably qualified to put up with mine for any longer.

Having had both in the recent past (switched from Alpine to Rocket in the spring), I’d go with the Cotic as it’s a more involving ride IMO. Oranges seem to cosset you through the rough bits – they’re comfortable and quick but I always felt a bit of a passenger on mine, whereas the Cotic needs a bit more input to get it through stuff (which for me is a positive but wouldn’t be for everyone I admit).

Darn, I’ve spelled prise wrong.

Orange

cotic

Cotic all day long for me. (Based entirely on looks)

I have the current Segment and it’s a superb bike.

Orange every time, simply due to the fact that no bike after 1993 should be built from train track material, least of all a full suspension bike,and cos Oranges have 2 bearings and shouldn’t be brilliant, but are. [\glib]

In the laudable tradition of STW, I’ll recommend what I own

[url=https://flic.kr/p/LGZyHJ]Untitled[/url] by Alex Leigh, on Flickr

having not ridden the Orange, although when the four came out, I was definitely interested. I’ve not had the flare max long but I do really enjoy riding it. I’ve had a few Cotic’s but I never really got on with my rocket. This feels a better fit – longer TT for a start. Whenever I ride it, two things always come to mind, it’s amazing comfortable/compliant without being noodly and it’s so nicely balanced.

Thing is between those two, you’re not going to buy a bad bike…

Thing is between those two, you’re not going to buy a bad bike…

This.

Although personally I’d go for the Orange. 😉

I prefer the Cotic’s geometry (slacker and not quite as super low BB). Cotic are great to deal with but the Orange is actually made in England. If you could put a 130mm fork on the Orange I think I’d get that. Tough decision – first world problem! 😉

Cotic
Orange are 1x fascists, on top of their order marches

What’s the frame weight difference between the two ?
Aren’t the Cotic frames (a lot) heavier ?

It’s hard to tell; the Orange Four I rented had really heavy draggy tyres and some bog-standard rims, whereas the Cotic had some lush carbon rims.

cotic is made from yesterday’s metal.
oranges rock.

on a serious note comparing an alpine to the four or even the rocket is not really comparing apples to apples…

cotic is made from yesterday’s metal.

They have round wheels too and those where developed 1000’s of years ago.

Cotic make brilliant bikes in steel and long may that continue.

I know there are plenty of people focused on weight numbers but my Dual Ply HRs add a 1kg over normal tyres and sometimes I ride with 1kg or water in my camelback and sometimes 2kg. Also Frame weight is far less important than wheels which have high inertia and are at the “ends” of the bike.

Shouldn’t be hard to demo a Segment?

Is there much weight difference? I’d go on that if there’s nothing else between them for you.

Recently had a Segment, took me a while to get the back dialed !! nit a lot of travel to set sag etc. Now dialed in this bike along with the bigger wheel I don’t feel the need for more travel

I’ve got a MK1 segment, very capable bike. Feels quite like a faster five.

With Pikes / Reverb / 2×10 / 2.3 tyres come up at about 30lbs.

No thoughts on the Cotic.

The Cotic flare max is not a particularly heavy bike in the real world. It’s not super light or xc racer light but definately not ‘heavy’. When it comes to the flare unless you’re a proper weighty weenie it really is not a heavy bike.

It takes quite a lot of material to make a stiff simple single pivot design because there’s no cross bracing, all the torsional load is just going through one point – however with the wider 1x and Boost design and the thinner sheet alu tweaks the Segment frame is probably a little lighter than the Flare Max.

I doubt there’s much in it because the Flare Max is using very strong 853 butted tubing, and if you’ve compared a Soul’s weight to an alloy hardtail you’ll see good steel can be just as light. And the chainstay/dropouts are alloy on the Cotic Droplink bikes anyway.

110mm of linear travel (Segment) is likely to feel a fair bit less than 120mm of progressive travel (Flare). The linkage driving the Flare’s shock will allow you to have more traction, more pop (rising midstroke rate) and more resistance to bottoming out.

Not a 29et but would definitely consider the 2017 orange five.here are my thoughts..
http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/2017-orange-five-first-ride-wow

Here’s another Cotic thread posted by Alex above a few weeks back. I demo’d the RocketMax and was really impressed with it.

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/cotic-demo-day-fod-pics-and-thoughts

I’m currently running 140mm Pikes on my Segment and they work really well. Don’t know if it’s the current Fox shock but the rear feels great and not at all out of it’s depth. Actually think the shorter rear suits the 140mm forks better than the 140mm rear on my old Alpine 5. Tighter and more to the point but still soaks up everything.

Right, thanks all, lots of things to think about. I think I’m going to leave it for now, and get a hardtail to keep me going, and meanwhile demo a few more bikes.

The Orange, although great fun downhill, was a struggle to get up long steep draggy fire roads: that may well be just a result of not having set it up properly (it was awesome on short sharp climbs), or even just me being a numpty with the climb switch. I can’t quite get on with the Cotic’s colours.

I think I’d prefer to avoid spending quite a bit of money and then being annoyed with my choice.

Good decision.
Pls let us know what hardtail you’re getting

Stanton Sherpa, in green. Looks like it should be pretty similar to my Swift, but a bit more practical for going down steep stuff.

Starling Cycles 29er taking orders now…

http://www.starlingcycles.com

British, single pivot with no bearing issues, custom sizing and geometry, any colour! Beautiful, fast and silent ride.

Cotic (and Orange) do great hardtails and if you wished you could swap bits over onto a FS frame in the future.

Took it out for its first proper ride yesterday to Woburn Sands. I love my trusty old Singular Swift, but honestly, this feels better with 120mm than the Swift did with 100mm, and climbs better as well. One small annoyance is that the paint seems to chip quite easily (chainstay).

EDIT: using the CRC dropper post, seemed pretty good and didn’t explode. My fork lowers bodge also survived the experience.