The Wiggins effect. E-petition for bike paths

Someone (not me) has started what looks like a great e-petition to government for new cycle paths. Will get my signature.

Wiggo Cycle Paths

NOT the answer

NOT the answer

Oh FFS. Does everything around here have to be a argument?

I have kids. If they are going out on their bikes, I would prefer that they are on dedicated cycle paths, physically seperate from the road.

And they will be wearing helmets.

Surely no-one can sensible argue that cycle paths, physically seperate from traffic, are dangerous.

Proper cycle paths are good, e-petitions aren’t worth the paper they are printed on.

NOT the answer

But it is a start… The cycle route that follows the M-607 outside Madrid would seem to be both safe and successful.

NOT the answer

NOT helpfull

I’ve signed it, cheers.

Not dangerous but addressing the symptoms not the problems.

It’s suggested that similar money spent on promoting road safety would bring a better result

It’s also been suggested that you cannot pass your driving test till you’ve passed your cycling proficiency which isn’t the worst idea

In addition to improving driver attitudes, I’d much rather ride on..

dedicated cycle paths, physically separate from the road.

I aways wear a helmet and think others should do too.

Trail centre are good.

I like gears.

go birch yourselves.

But that’s never going to happen is it, there simply isn’t the room to do that on every road

Realistic solutions

If this really means anything to people may I suggest they join an organisation like the CTC, support and get involved with their lobbying.

And start writing to MP’s, their own and those more closely involved in transport policy.

This will have a far bigger impact than just signing some silly e-petition. Especially if the effort is sustained over time.

But that’s never going to happen is it, there simply isn’t the room to do that on every road

Realistic solutions

It can, but it takes time, Germany and Holland didn’t get their cycle path networks overnight, they started decades ago. Many of us may never see the full benefit of a proper cycle network, but it needs to start somewhere or no one ever will.

Signed.

I used to live in Germany and the cycle paths (proper ones, physically separated etc etc) were fantastic.

NOT the answer

I’m afraid they are. Or at least part of it.

Some keen cyclists (like druidh I assume) object to cycle paths because they want to use the road, as is their right, to ride quickly.

But that misses the point.

Those people already cycle, despite the current conditions.
They are not the target audience!

To make cycling safer and more respected we need to get more people cycling. And the number one reason given by any non-cyclists is that they don’t feel safe on the road and would cycle if there was a suitable safe path.

We NEED to put those in place if we want more cyclists.

It still helps those on the road: Some path cyclists will graduate to cycling faster on the road. Some will gain an understanding of cycling that they apply when driving around cyclists on the road. And most will lose their animosity towards cyclists. Cycling facilities for all will improve.

But that’s never going to happen is it, there simply isn’t the room to do that on every road

Other countries manage it just fine.

Look at these fine examples:
http://www.hembrowcyclingholidays.com/comparisons.html

Every little helps……SIGNED!

GrahamS yep sounds sensible but I do worry about being driven off the roads, I mean surely most regular road riders have had “you should be in the cycle lane” shouted at them – and that’s with the crap “infrastructure” (bit of green paint) we currently have

Well if there are so many of ourselves against trying to improve cycle safety how will we manage to convince the non-cyclists. I live in Bristol and being able to commute without being on the roads is a great help.

We all need to get behind things like this. e-petitions might not be the best way to get our point across but by not signing them are we just giving u before we’ve even started. We’re a small country with a lot of people and a lot of cars. So surely it’s safer for cyclist including children to get them off of the overcrowded roads. In the last 10 years fuel prices have more than doubled (69p per litre when I started) and there are still more cars on the road than then so that’s proved that people won’t stop driving. So we need to start looking at alternatives to this as well as educating us both cyclists and drivers about road awareness and courtesy for other road users

Blinkin flip – the attitude on here sometimes sucks beyond belief – unless it’s a panacea it’s rubbish! What a sh1te attitude, and one reason nothing ever gets done.

The more pressure points across the widest range of media/campaigns can only be a good thing. Keep the profile high, do everything you can and support all positive measures.

I have signed. I also think helmets are a great idea, saved my head twice so i support helmet wearing and Wiggo.

If you want to support new cycle paths and a lot of work in encouraging safer/more sustainable transport options you could do a lot worse that spend a fiver a month supporting sustrans.

email in profile if you want to become a supporter, btw 😉

I have been hoping for completion of a cycle path between Wells and Cheddar in Somerset for years its only 1m for 8 miles of path which would boost tourism .Even our MPis in favour of it.They may not be the answer to everything but kids and the more nervous cyclists like them .My fiancee has only just started riding with me and is rather nervous and wont cycle on the road yet but is happy to build her confidence on a dedicated path

Oh FFS. Does everything around here have to be a argument?

You startin?!

ps Ive signed.. 😉

You startin?!

Eh, calm down like!

Cycle paths CAN be good, but they CAN be worse than nothing.

If we get poor cycle paths with loads of junctions and entrances, and we’re compelled to use them, that would seriously affect cycling as a sport rather than a means of transport.

If we get wide open dedicated lanes without interruption, that would be fantastic.

I used to live in Germany and the cycle paths (proper ones, physically separated etc etc) were fantastic.

Me too, and some were good, some were awful. A study there concluded that it was actually safer for cyclists to be in with the traffic where they could be seen, because so many accidents were caused by entrances and junctions, where the cyclists couldn’t be seen.

I do wish that folk would stop giving the Netherlands as an example.

I’d guess that less than 2% of roads in The Netherlands has a dedicated cycle lane and figures show that Dutch cyclists are just as nervous on “ordinary” roads as we are.

Have a look at a road map of Britain. Zoom in to almost any city. Tell me where these dedicated cycle paths are going to be built. Are you going to knock down houses and widen existing roads? I think it’s great that New Towns can build something in at the planning stage but how many centuries until we reach this traffic-free nirvana?

And what happens when the path ends? You’re dumped on to the existing road network with drivers who are even less experienced at sharing with cyclists.

The answer is to increase the number of cyclists using the roads until that becomes “normal”, decrease speed limits in towns to 20mph, install more ASLs (and give bikes priority to treat any Stop Line as an ASL) and to change road layouts (especially in residential areas) to slow traffic down still further and give more priority to cyclists and pedestrians.

Signed.

I do wish that folk would stop giving the Netherlands as an example.

Okay. Here my personal example.

I commute to work by bike twice a week. More if I can.
It’s an 11 mile commute and is almost entirely on Sustrans cycle paths or shared use pavements. I only do a few hundred yards on road.

If those paths didn’t exist; if my only option was to use the road; then I’d be taking the car. Simple as that.

Tell me where these dedicated cycle paths are going to be built. Are you going to knock down houses and widen existing roads?

Take a look at the hembrow link above for some excellent examples of how cycle paths could fit with existing UK streets. The main lesson is: take space away from the cars!

Plenty more paths can be built away from roads. Old railway lines are excellent because they usually go somewhere sensible, already have bridges/tunnels etc, and are pretty straight. Any disused line could be converted to cycle track with some investment.

I’d guess that less than 2% of roads in The Netherlands has a dedicated cycle lane and figures show that Dutch cyclists are just as nervous on “ordinary” roads as we are.

Typical STW hot air bo***x

GrahamS – Member – Quote
Take a look at the hembrow link above for some excellent examples of how cycle paths could fit with some existing UK streets. The main lesson is: take space away from the cars!

Most of the UK road network has one lane going in each direction. Tell me how you are going to reduce space for cars.

12 votes?

We have had more posts on here about it – lol

The more pressure points across the widest range of media/campaigns can only be a good thing. Keep the profile high, do everything you can and support all positive measures.

The problem with e-petitions are that they are basically a political “card trick” make people believe they are getting involved in politics, and stop them from really getting involved and doing something worthwhile.

Most of the UK road network has one lane going in each direction. Tell me how you are going to reduce space for cars.

How many of those roads need to have traffic flowing on both directions? How many could be made one-way, with an adjacent road going the other way? How many could operate as a single lane with lights controlling direction of traffic (e.g. as they do at road works)? How many roads have parking on both sides, then a line of trees, then pavement?

And yes: obviously not every street needs a cycle lane. Other measures, such as 20mph limits, will work too. As will providing high-quality paths via other routes.

Do you really think the UK road network is that different to the roads in other countries?

If those paths didn’t exist; if my only option was to use the road; then I’d be taking the car. Simple as that.

What we are saying is that it might be better to make the road safer for cyclists rather than remove cyclists altogether.

I used to cycle down the A580 until they put the cycle path in. I quite liked the cycle path but it was a long way between junctions, but those junctions were a bit dangerous – generally very high speed (straight off or onto a NSL DC). Somehow it always seemed less stress to use the cycle path for the bulk of the ride but when junctions appeared more frequently it was far less stress to just get on the road and become the traffic.

ENDLESS abuse for not using the cycle path when I wanted to use the road though, including people throwing bottles at me.

Cycle path was generally left covered in glass/spikey hedge cuttings.

Better than cycle lanes, but IMO still worse than just riding on the road.

I was recently over in Aalborg, Denmark – the whole situation is reversed there. They have a 180% tax on every car sale/import so cars are remarkably rare – I saw more bikes than cars during my week long stay there. No-one complained about it being hard to get about, they just hopped on a bike, even when they worked 10km from home. The roads have off-road cycle paths and generally cyclists get right of way after peds. The whole city seemed more open and inviting to bikes but likewise the lack of cars probably provided most of that feel. Incidentally, didn’t see a single overweight person lol.

Most of the UK road network has one lane going in each direction. Tell me how you are going to reduce space for cars.

Theres countless examples in cities where there is loads of space, its just given to cars instead. Almost every junction in London has at least two lanes queuing the lights for instance, since TFL much prefer to shorten the queue to cars rather than give the space to cyclists (and pedestrians). Of course, this just encourages more cars. Just take a look at the Blackfriars redesign.

The physical constraints of London’s streets

Molgrips & druidh have it for me.

Integration not segregation

The answer is to increase the number of cyclists using the roads until that becomes “normal”,

this is the tricky bit. Good segregated cycle infrastructure might help boost those numbers.

Crap infrastructure, like molgrips says, is just detrimental for everyone, we’re getting all this money spent on us (so anger from motorists), possibly being forced off the roads but its actually more dangerous than what we have now.

What we are saying is that it might be better to make the road safer for cyclists rather than remove cyclists altogether.

Yep, but what I am saying is that if you want more new cyclists then you need traffic-free paths away from the road. And more cyclists benefits everyone, including those using the road.

How many folk would let their kids ride 2 miles to school on the road on their own?

How about if there was a dedicated path where they could cycle to school safely with their mates?

Do you really think the UK road network is that different to the roads in other countries?

Yes, absolutely.

Yep, but what I am saying is that if you want more new cyclists then you need traffic-free paths away from the road

That would be welcome (as long as they weren’t mandatory), but how the hell are we going to achieve that?

Molgrips & druidh have it for me.

Integration not segregation

This.
At the same time I totally agree with Graham S’s arguments- we need to get the people who currently don’t cycle out there. But riding on the road isn’t dangerous- riding on the road when it’s full of people not taking care where they’re putting their ton of metal is dangerous. Surely that should be addressed for everybody’s benefit rather than ceding the roads to cars?

IMO the way cars dominate the roads is effectively anti-social and needs to change, and I don’t see how it will if efforts are directed towards keeping people away from them- that seems to me to just be reinforcing the idea that roads are for cars not people, and if you want to stray onto them, well, you’re taking your chances.

Is that really what we want?

> Do you really think the UK road network is that different to the roads in other countries?
Yes, absolutely.

How so? The roads shown in that Hembrow link are all the “one lane going in each direction” type that druidh was citing. Are the UK ones so different from the Dutch ones in those pictures?

That would be welcome (as long as they weren’t mandatory), but how the hell are we going to achieve that?

Money!

We spend absolutely sweet FA on cycling infrastructure in the UK.
The Dutch spend £10-20 per cyclist per year. The UK spend is about 70p per head.