So what Enduros are there in the UK, apart from the 661 ones? I fancy having a crack at one.
Bike Forum
That really should settle it once and fro all.
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Posted 4 months ago #
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TJ is right (and it also states in the article) the name "Enduro" comes from motorbike Enduro.... BECAUSE IT HAS A VERY CLEAR SIMILARITY TO MTB ENDURO: linking sections and timed sections.
Pistonbroke, you STILL do not seem to realise what racing format we mean by "Enduro". Be honest: have you actually read the article (rather than glossed over it)?
If so, then seriously, what the heck are you on about??
What I mean is: whilst ALL of the points you make about legalities, etc, etc may be correct, you are WAY wide of the whole point of this discussion. No one would ever think about running an Enduro race along a bridleway.Again: we're talking about "untimed-up / timed-down" rally-style Enduro RACES. i.e. real Enduro (e.g. the new UK 661 series). I'm still pretty convinced that you're not talking about these, you're talking about non/semi-competitive long-distance mass XC rides which have been INCORRECTLY TAGGED "Enduro" by some organisers in the UK, hence the whole point of the article !!!!
(it's so funny how illustrative this exchange right here is, of my motivation for writing the article)
Flyingmonkeycorps- there is also now a series for 2012, based down South, called Enduro1.
Posted 4 months ago # -
There's one at Glentress this year as part of TweedLove, end of May.
Posted 4 months ago # -
Ooh, TweedLove, that might make for a good long weekend. Nearly went last year (mainly for Frightened Rabbit) but didn't make it in the end.
Kinda wish someone would run one at Dalby or Cannock, for localness.
Posted 4 months ago # -
Ive done loads of motorcycle Enduros - usually 3 or 4 hrs long. All of it counts, we didnt do timed sections, but some do.
When crossing bridleways we do so at walking pace with a marshall ensuring walkers are not squashed.
In reality there are never any walkers, but we still have to slow down to cross. Once we had to dismount as we crossed over. Courses were many miles long (one or two tankfulls).
Posted 4 months ago # -
No one would ever think about running an Enduro race along a bridleway.
That's fine then, where do I sign up?
Posted 4 months ago # -
As I understand it, the main reason Midland Trailquests broke away from British Mountain Bike Orienteering is that BMBO events involve visiting all the Control Points in order, with the rider doing it in the shortest time being the winner.
MTQ events are all score events, where riders visit as many CPs as possible within a time limit, choosing their own route.It might seem a trivial difference, but BMBO events were seen as not following the letter of the law regarding "racing" on bridleways.
Although MTQ events are timed, they get round this by being "Navigation" events, not "Speed" events.Posted 4 months ago # -
No one would ever think about running an Enduro race along a bridleway.
You'd think someone wouldn't plan to run downhill races on some of the most controversial cheeky trails in the Surrey hills, too. But they did.
Posted 4 months ago # -
MTG, It was much more complicated than that, I was there.The root of all evil was the main issue.
Posted 4 months ago # -
I was there
Splitter!
Posted 4 months ago # -
Tell me more, pistonbroke.
I've only heard it all third hand and it always seemed a trivial matter to start a breakaway club over, considering the "racing on a bridleway" thing had never actually caused any problems.Posted 4 months ago # -
Not sure it's a subject for a public forum, if you mail me I'll reply.
Posted 4 months ago # -
So then, enduro is a word that, in English, has more than one meaning? However will the language cope!
It's unfortunate that there's been a confusion in the nomenclature but to scream "YOU'RE USING IT WRONG! WAAH!" seems a little petulant and not the most constructive way to reduce the confusion the dual meaning has caused. And really, is telling the British people that they're using a word wrong and that they should use the European meaning of the word instead a good way to get them on your side?
There's one at Glentress this year as part of TweedLove, end of May.
You could argue that there'll be one of each type at TweedLove, with the Glentress 7 being a 7 hour lap-based event and the POC King and Queen of the Hill being an "all-mountain enduro-style mountain bike race" (the organiser's words).
They seem to have enduros at Innerleithen on an approximately monthly basis, too.
Posted 4 months ago # -
It's unfortunate that there's been a confusion in the nomenclature but to scream "YOU'RE USING IT WRONG! WAAH!" seems a little petulant and not the most constructive way to reduce the confusion the dual meaning has caused.
Fair point. It's a shame (from my point of view) that you took it as being petulant, I guess this is one of things about written word... it's difficult to convey the tone to be universally taken as intended. I would (genuinely) welcome your suggestion for constructive ways to reduce the confusion that the dual meaning has caused.
And really, is telling the British people that they're using a word wrong and that they should use the European meaning of the word instead a good way to get them on your side?
It's not really about getting people "on my side" though, is it? It's about moving forward and properly developing a race discipline which HAS (for one reason or another) had stunted growth in the UK. By the way, I am both British and European, as per all other Brits
Posted 4 months ago # -
I would (genuinely) welcome your suggestion for constructive ways to reduce the confusion that the dual meaning has caused.
Well for starters accepting that using qualifying words such as "gravity" or "all-mountain" are going to be useful ways to reduce ambiguity about these events in the UK would probably be a good start. Decrying this as "nothing short of a joke" makes you sound a little frothing, I'm afraid. You could try asking organisers of distance/lap based enduros to add appropriate qualifiers to their event names too.
Posted 4 months ago # -
I was under the impression, that the letter of the law would allow people to race the clock, but not directly race other competitors, on the public highway/ROWs, hence the continued running of road motor rallys on open roads, provided the organisers take steps to keep competitors the right side of the highway code.
Getting insurance for events that use sections of ROW however, is a different ball-game entirely ...
Posted 4 months ago # -
accepting that using qualifying words such as "gravity" or "all-mountain" are going to be useful ways to reduce ambiguity about these events in the UK would probably be a good start
In practice, I think you're right. It's gone too far down one route now. Personally, I'm not keen on the use of the so-called "qualifying words" (e.g. "Gravity" Enduro in this case) and think it's a shame, because it's a bit of an implication/false admission that Enduro (on its own) is a 50km+ pedalfest, which it isn't.
Decrying this as "nothing short of a joke" makes you sound a little frothing, I'm afraid
OK, again, fair point, that was probably a bit overzealous in retrospect... but at least it has served a purpose (sparking dialogue between us).
Where I was coming from is that it isn't *really* a 50-50 dual definition term we're talking about here. Mountain bike Enduro has a very defined meaning (as per UCI definitions) and has subsequently been a borrowed term (in the case of e.g. Dyfi "Enduro" which is in fact a Marathon event as per UCI definition)
Posted 4 months ago # -
What's in a name... People can rightly say that there's a tradition of XC events being called enduros in the UK. But it's not a universal or standard term even for them- there are lots of events that don't style themselves as enduros. It's not been used consistently even before the growth of "gravity" enduros.
So if those XC "enduro" events change their tag, it's not only more correct in international terms, and IMO fairer to the growing "gravity" sport, it's also less confusing on national terms for the XC events.
"Endurance" or "marathon" is plainer english too- you might have to ask what a Coed y Brenin Enduro is, if you're not a racer, but you'll never have to ask what a CYB Endurance XC Race/Event is, or a Selkirk Marathon.
"Gravity" enduro will suffer more if it can't use the word- it's the internationally understood term for it of course, and there's not really an equivalent already out there so it would mean taking an established format and making up some new term- very confusing.
And having to use adjectives like "XC enduro" and "Gravity enduro" just confuses things further, and can be offputting- there are people who won't do a "gravity enduro" because they're worried about the "gravity" part, who wouldn't be put off at first sight without it.
TBH I think it's only right for XC events to stop using the title- they can do so with minimal negative impact and even some benefit, so even if you disregard the issue of who has the right to it, it's still the correct thing to do. Both parties will benefit. TBH I reckon it's pretty disappointing they haven't already done it, doesn't reflect well on them at all.
flyingmonkeycorps - Member
So what Enduros are there in the UK, apart from the 661 ones? I fancy having a crack at one.
Innerleithen MTB Racing run very, very good enduro events every couple of months- there's one this weekend in fact, which is sold out but will still have some in-person entries, and a "night-and-day" one in a few weeks. Can't recommend these too highly...
Posted 4 months ago # -
I hope Ash doesn't see the Mondraker preview in the latest What MTB... "Gravduro", deary me.
Posted 3 months ago # -
There is an Australian Magazine called "Enduro" and as far as I can remember it's about long distance XC type events not gravity stuff.
Posted 3 months ago # -
I hope you all ride your specialized Enduros for these event too. Otherwise that's another law flaunted....
DrP
Posted 3 months ago #
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