When? I’ve heard it said many times on here and every time I recall the phrase when going downhill, I crash.
So, under what circumstances MUST a less accomplished rider speed up? i.e. let go of the brakes. When is that helpful? It just seems to result in a bigger crash.

Maybe you should try MTFU as well.

Speed carries you over stuff, it gives the front wheel less time to get stuck and cause the bike to stall. Suspension works better when you’re off the brakes too.

Speed is good until speed > ability…

You can’t just go fast. You have to also be in control.

Weighting /unweighting with the speed also has a big part to play in carrying you over things init.
Edit. Remembers last crash at 4mph on a flat fire road so says no more 😳

let go of the brakes. When is that helpful?

If you are going over steep, loose, rocky ground – braking is unlikely to stop you and is just going to help lock up the wheels and make you lose control. Try and look ahead to a point where you can brake, and just let the bike roll over the difficult bit.

Also, if you are coming up to a drop-off for instance – panicking and braking at the last minute is probably the most likely to thing to make you end up hurting yourself.

Braking while cornering is generally a bad idea for similar reasons.

I sound like a kn*b but stay loose I always find works best.

If I’m nervous, I feel more unstable on the bike. On trails I ride week in week out I ride them pretty quick but most importantly I’m completely relaxed and try to let the bike do the work under me.

Can’t really believe I just wrote that….

I give it lots of MTFU. I even try my best not to touch the brake levers at all on a steep descent. In fact, I’m usually leaning back so far and clinging on to the handlebars so tightly that extending the fingers to touch the break levers is out of the question anyway. Even if I’m leaning back so far that my scr0tum’s clattering on the back tyre and acting like a third brake, if the brakes are off, I will crash. The exception is if there’s a rambler in the way, but even then, they’ve learned to either scramble quickly out of the way when they see me coming or sprint away in the opposite direction, shouting obscenities all the way, in the hope that I will have either crashed before hitting them or slowed down enough to make a softer impact.

Many crashes happen when newbies get on the brakes when they shouldn’t.

A better adage is “Momentum is your friend”.

Just going balls out is no good but let’s say you’re going through a long rooty patch, if you have a little momentum going in, unweight the front a little and keep your heels down so that the bike doesn’t hang up under you if it hits something you’ll most likely get across.

If you hit the brakes in the same situation and try and pick your way through slowly chances are your weight will be forward, you wont have enough momentum, the bike will stall and you’ll come off. Most likely just a dab but I’ve seem many an over the bars in exactly that situation.

You’re trying to skip over stuff not barge your way through.

I AM NOT A PRO CYCLING TRAINER. GET SOME PROPER LESSONS, THEY’RE THE BEST SINGLE UPGRADE YOU CAN BUY.

That said. Speed, imho is not the key, it’s momentum. So much of mtb’ing over rough ground is the battle between momentum and inertia. Speed is only part of it. Sure, you can barrel over rough ground on your FS and get away with it, but as important is getting your feet behind your pedals so you can push the bike over rough stuff – and then you don’t need so much speed and hence can have more control.

Be A Better Rider Part 4: Heels

In fact, I’m usually leaning back so far and clinging on to the handlebars so tightly

That sounds like the problem. I used to lean back far more than was necessary. You will have a lot less control, especially when cornering if you are too far back. Also gripping the bars really tight is just going to get your arms tired very quickly.

Manning the F*** up is never a good option.

Like I said: you can’t just be fast, you also have to be on control. Sounds like you you aren’t.

Speed, imho is not the key, it’s momentum.

Sorry, but I hate this.

Momentum = mass x velocity.

Unless you’re going to be picking up bricks or something to increase your mass, the only way to increase your momentum is to increase your speed.

Three_Fish – Member

You can’t just go fast. You have to also be in control.

D’oh!

“leaning back” is one of those bits of advice that’s become biking lore carried over all the way from the mid 90’s when bikes had 0 degree stems of 150mm and no suspension.

It’s OK on really bonkers steep stuff but for normal trails you want to drop your heels to get your weight through the wheels, not lean right back off the saddle. All that does is lock your arms, reduce the weight on the front (so less steering/control/grip).

For the appeasement of the pedant. For momentum read: Adequate speed while maintaining control for the ground conditons you are attemptng to ride over.
Can’t we just call it momentum? It’s much quicker to type than all that.

Can’t we just believe the bible? Its much easier to understand then science.

Balance speed and control. Simple.

I only ever use the ‘speed is your friend’ mantra over jumps and drops where overshooting is better than undershooting

over shooting is never better!

Momentum = mass x velocity.

Unless you’re going to be picking up bricks or something to increase your mass, the only way to increase your momentum is to increase your speed.

Yes, mass is an important part of it. By lowering your heels and getting behind the pedals you add your own momentum to that of the bike. If you are too far on top / ahead of the pedals, then it’s almost as if you and the bike are two separated objects, so that when the bike hits something and stops, your momentum carries you onwards (and usually over the bars into a tangled mess, from experience)

I’ve hit small roots before when not paying attention and riding in a casual ‘shopping’ position and nearly endoed. Drop my heels and adopt a better riding posture, I can ride into and over logs by comparison.

As Brian Lopes say’s in his book: ‘become a smooth rider before you become a fast rider’. This has worked for me. I recently decided to take his advice and stop trying to go fast and just ride everything as smooth as possible by pumping and stuff and it’s really helped. I think I’m starting to really get the hang of the pumping thing now and it has in turn made me faster than before. I see what he meant now.

Apply brakes to set the entry speed before the obstacle. Let off brakes and accelerate through it. Repeat.

For me I have to practice over and over again. I’ll start off slow and maybe break the trail I’m riding down into sections.

I’ve started riding downhill at weekend and trail riding during the week. This means that I have loads of time to get the downhill stuff right. I can quite easily spend 3hours just doing the same 2 runs over and over again. I’m by no means brilliant at it but I will get better.

Getting yourself on a skills course also comes highly recommended. My session with Jedi in May was brilliant.

I flew into something a bit steep and rooty last month and I was down before I could say “wow that was a bit hairy”

Went down it next time with caution and brakes – rode into a tree. You can bet I was looking straight in front of my front wheel when I crashed because I was worried about the roots. I had already proved you could ride straight over them.

bakes – Member

I only ever use the ‘speed is your friend’ mantra over jumps and drops where overshooting is better than undershooting
Posted 10 hours ago

I tend to go faster the first time I hit a new gap or drop for the same reasons a bakes said. I prefer the over shoot approach and slow a bit for the next go.

jedi – Member

over shooting is never better!

Yeah right 🙄

yeah im talking basic drop and jumps. advanced jumps and drops have a point you must get to to land on a transition. im trying to talk in context of the riders most common experineces

As a rider who struggles with the skill side of my riding I still enjoy the steep stuff but would like to carry more speed, I recently realized after watching the short tip vids on STW that I was not staying loose on the bike and using my knees as I would ride with my knees more tense and closer to the top tube, I am now constantly adjusting this with my knees out more which has increased my speed and flow over the rough stuff and given me more control, also making sure my brake levers are in line with my forearm and hands. I am also moving around more with the bike unweighting etc, it a few easy adjustments to technique that make a world of difference. Just need to master jumping next 😕

Jedi, I can’t think of a single example where casing/coming up short is a better option that overshooting. Regardless of the size of the drop/gap or the riders ability.

Jedi, I can’t think of a single example where casing/coming up short is a better option that overshooting.

Any tabletop? Any small drop?

Manning the F*** up is never a good option.

Absolutly disagree. It works perfectly for me.

Jedi,

IMO coming up short on any gap drop or double is much worse that overshooting it.

Speed /skill are your friends in most occasions.

Over rough ground momentum and bike skill are the major factors.

I think I once read a guide on how to ride technical trails in MBUK which quoted Will Longden saying “think of yourself as water running down the trail“.

I rather liked that.

On the one hand, it intuitively seems unhelpful to write a general article about “how to ride technical trails” because they vary so much. Why is the particular trail technical? When you’ve ridden the trail many times, getting the most out of that trail depends on its specifics.

But when you’re just trying to get down it the first time, the best approach is to avoid overthinking the details and just flow down it. Then when you’re trying to squeeze out a little more speed from it – that’s when to think about details.

Euro – is that picture of that big jump photoshopped? You surely didn’t do that, did you?

Tinners – it’s from this year’s Red Bull Rampage contest. There’s some videos of it on the home page.

Any tabletop? Any small drop?

This. Overshooting a tabletop has caused me a few big painful crashes! Usually overshooting will make me lose all my momentum for the next jump, and no amount of pumping can seem to sort it out. What’s worst is when you land on the take off of the next jump though 😕

Only time I would prefer to overshoot is on a double/gap.

Went to Wisley today and did the biggest double I’ve ever done, not massive but a good 3 or 4 bike lengths – that’s the kind of thing where speed is your friend – straight run up and run out. Overshot by a couple of feet first time which was fine. If I’d undershot by the same, I wouldn’t be typing this. 😀

Supertacky a gap double or gap drop is an advanced technique. Overshooting a tabletop or reg drop is what I’m talking about

Euro – is that picture of that big jump photoshopped?

it’s from this year’s Red Bull Rampage contest

It’s an amazing picture. You must have b******* the size of basket balls. I hope you weren’t one of the first two riders 😉

That’s james dorfling iirc in ramapge pic