Ah, like my neighbour who calls himself an 'engineer', but who has little more than a rudimentary grasp of engineering principles, mathematics, physics and geometry
A handy neighbour to have then.:-)
Chat Forum
STW Junior Designer job £15.6k- did I read that right?
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Posted 5 months ago #
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Engineer should be a protected term. I.e. you're not an engineer unless you have at least a degree in the subject and an affiliation to a professional organisation.
Perhaps we could have a debate about this to clear it up once and for all.don simon- ex sales engineer.
Posted 5 months ago # -
Not really; he's got me to make him a cabinet, cos he 'cant get his head round all the numbers and stuff'.
Posted 5 months ago # -
Not an engineer then. He's a technician - nothing wrong with that either.
Posted 5 months ago # -
an affiliation to a professional organisation
Professional organisations are generally absolute rackets.Posted 5 months ago # -
The job is part funded under an EC graduate placement scheme. It's part funded for 14 weeks and then they are all ours
Posted 5 months ago # -
Just a thought are so many peoples lives so unfulfilled that they are complaining about a job they wouldn't even apply for?
Posted 5 months ago # -
Fred - for £45k, I'd rather she went travelling the world for a couple of years. Far more educational and rewarding than spending 5 years getting shitfaced, smoking weed and attending dubious parties.
Posted 5 months ago # -
I'd rather she went travelling the world for a couple of years. Far more educational and rewarding than spending 5 years getting shitfaced, smoking weed and attending dubious parties.
Cos that would only be 2 years spent getting shitfaced, smoking weed and attending dubious parties?
Posted 5 months ago # -
Why is a degree required? I can't believe people will put themselves through uni for 3/4/5 years and then take that salary - it's derisory.
Because just by getting a degree you do not become entitled to anything.
You make yourself more appealing to some employers, and you learn some stuff, but it does not entitle you to anything.
To say that salary is derisory is more insulting to all the intelligent hard working people without degrees. Do you think they deserve less because they don't have the paper work?
*Yes I have a degree, I still think I should be evaluated and employed on my demonstrable experience and skills and do not think I should be paid more for having a degree, it's just a bit of evidence that I can learn and apply myself.
**Masters in Physics if you must know, and no, I don't work in and industry where I can make use of it.
Posted 5 months ago # -
I'd rather she went travelling the world for a couple of years. Far more educational and rewarding than spending 5 years getting shitfaced, smoking weed and attending dubious parties.
Cos that would only be 2 years spent getting shitfaced, smoking weed and attending dubious parties?
STR; without your household income (that you are so often keen to tell us about), I would've thought that you could now be putting money aside for when your daughter is old enough to make her own decision. That way, she won't be saddled with such debt.
Your view of what a university education is actually really like is ignorant and narrow minded. But then, you've never bin, so how would you know what it's actually about? Far better, to form your own misconceptions based on misinformation and prejudice, eh?
Education can of course be found in many forms, and in many places. Maybe travelling for two years would be better for her personally, than 3-5 years in uni. But how do you know this?
Better to at least allow her the opportunity and luxury of choice, eh, than making up her mind for her already based on your own narrow view.
Posted 5 months ago # -
Professional organisations are generally absolute rackets.
I agree but in the absence of a better solution, if you were looking to differentiate between people that fix things and people that do engineering it would be a good place to start.
Posted 5 months ago # -
Oh ffs, give over Fred. Did you not bother reading my first post "unless of course she really wants to go". Your endless search for an argument is getting a bit bloody boring now, grow up.
Posted 5 months ago # -
I think most art&design grads would be happy with that salary - I graduate in May and I feel rather underprepared for the 'real world', so I think the opportunity and experience offered by such a job would be worth it and then some. If I wasn't still finishing Uni I'd be applying straight away
Rather depressed by this thread now! (but at least I haven't paid 9,000 a year for the privilege of earning peanuts)
Posted 5 months ago # -
Personally it's quite refreshing to see complaints about a wage being too low.
Posted 5 months ago # -
Far more educational and rewarding than spending 5 years getting shitfaced, smoking weed and attending dubious parties.
That's exactly what I spent all my time doing on my engineering degree - anybody would have thought you were there.
Can we have the student loans debate again please? The one where we point out that if you are on a low wage, "paying" £9k a year is kind of irrelevant.
Posted 5 months ago # -
Did you not bother reading my first post "unless of course she really wants to go"
Yeah I did, but I also read this:
I will be actively discouraging my daughter to go to Uni
So, quite contradictory then, and it seems you're more intent on foisting your prejudices onto your daughter, than you are in allowing her to grow up to be the person she wants to be herself. As though you'd prefer to mould her in your own image.
Your endless search for an argument is getting a bit bloody boring now, grow up.
I'm merely challenging what I consider to be a very ignorant and negative attitude towards university education. It's a public forum. I'm quite mature enough I think to be able to engage in intelligent discussion with others.
You have no experience of a university education, yet you'd 'actively discourage' your own child from exploring an avenue you yourself have not even bin down?
Why?
Posted 5 months ago # -
Ewan, your other differentiator was that engineers should have a degree though. Plenty of fantastic engineers don't.
Posted 5 months ago # -
A few yrs ago that sort of money would have allowed you to buy a small house in Tod and not live too badly. Unfortunately house prices and rents have gone through the roof.
however, i'm once again struck by how out of touch the STW 'intelligentsia' actually are, £15'000 is a livable wage for many people at the moment.
Posted 5 months ago # -
I could reply Fred, but I really can't be arsed with you today.
Posted 5 months ago # -
Actively discouraging ..... Great role model
So is your daughter going to be an electrician too ?
Posted 5 months ago # -
I'd actually be very interested in your views, as they echo those of the parents of various friends of mine who struggled to get themselves to university despite parental adversity. Then suffered a great deal of familial hostility, in some cases to the point of having to lose contact with those they loved.
I find it depressing that people can be so ideologically opposed to something they themselves have no experience of.
Posted 5 months ago # -
Ewan, your other differentiator was that engineers should have a degree though. Plenty of fantastic engineers don't.
Really? I've come across a few who didn't go to uni, but generally they've all got degrees - where else do you get that level of knowledge? I certainly couldn't do certain aspects of my job without making use of stuff I learnt doing my degree.
FWIW I've also interviewed graduates who appear to have already forgotten everything they learnt on their degree.
Posted 5 months ago # -
Muddydwarf i dont doubt 15,600 to be a livable wage
2 years ago i worked in alpine bikes for 11k a year and my mrs was doing a pgde at the uni Renting a flat in aberdeen
I didnt think times were too tough tbh ... You could never buy a house on it but buying a house isnt a god given right
Cut your cloth to suit your means not your wants !
Posted 5 months ago # -
What is an engineer though - the guy who sits behind the desk all day designing the equipment - but ime doesnt know how to put it together . The guy who can take a drawing and turn it into reality ? The guy who can put a system of ready designed parts together to solve a problem ?
Or simply the guy who given a problem can supply a safe , long term solution to fit the criteria and regulations ?
Posted 5 months ago # -
Er, i DID buy a house on a similar wage!
Fair enough, it was before prices went stupid and the house was only £33'000 (now priced at 3 times that) but it was a viable option - i'm still here after all.
My Mortgage is paid weekly and is £35 per week Posted 5 months ago # -
A refuse engineer can empty the bins.
Engineering ain't all that
Posted 5 months ago # -
What is an engineer though - the guy who sits behind the desk all day designing the equipment - but ime doesnt know how to put it together . The guy who can take a drawing and turn it into reality ? The guy who can put a system of ready designed parts together to solve a problem ?
Or simply the guy who given a problem can supply a safe , long term solution to fit the criteria and regulations ?
Combination of the first and last. The second is a technician.
RichPenny - I've come across a few who I would say were genuine 'engineers' (i.e. understood the physics and materials science behind what they were doing) without an engineering degree, however they generally did have degrees in maths or physics.
Posted 5 months ago # -
Combination of the first and last. The second is a technician
+1however we are digressing.....
Has anyone applied?
Posted 5 months ago # -
FWIW I've also interviewed graduates who appear to have already forgotten everything they learnt on their degree.
I usually forget everything I learned in a unit within hours of taking the final exam, let alone after completing the whole thing.Posted 5 months ago # -
What is an engineer though - blah blah blah
wel that's obvious innit..!
Posted 5 months ago # -
Some snowy loveless, Happy xmas all
Posted 5 months ago # -
What is an engineer though - the guy who sits behind the desk all day designing the equipment - but ime doesnt know how to put it together . The guy who can take a drawing and turn it into reality ? The guy who can put a system of ready designed parts together to solve a problem ?
Or simply the guy who given a problem can supply a safe , long term solution to fit the criteria and regulations ?
Hmm, it's an interesting one. I understand an 'engineer' to be someone to come up with a safe, working solution to a particular problem I spose.
In my neighbour's case, not knowing that you can't weld titanium to a steel alloy, and not even knowing that titanium is in fact a completely different metal to steel, is something that would negate his claims to be an 'engineer'.
He was in fact a Boilermaker/Welder. I think the term 'engineer' sounds more 'important', hence his use of it. An 'engineer' is a more prestigious role than a 'mere' welder.
But if I had an 'engineering' problem I needed solving, he'd not be someone I'd go to, as he does not in any way have the skills and knowledge required. Hence, he's not an 'engineer'.
But maybe his definition is one that's outdated, and that the current definition involves more extensive knowledge than what was required previously. I dunno.
Posted 5 months ago # -
I went to uni, got a degree, and I'll be actively discouraging my kids from doing the same until they've got a trade under their belt.
Posted 5 months ago # -
Now thats a good idea brucewee
Posted 5 months ago #
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