Which do you prefer running tubeless & why ! 
Bike Forum
Stan's Flow's or Mavic xm819
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Posted 6 months ago #
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I've got both... the Flows win on every count- wider, lighter, and they seem stronger to boot (my 819s get lighter use but have suffered more damage). Once the Flows are taped up they function identically, tubeless-wise.
I think possibly the 819s are a better very-long-term option due to the eyelets... In practice, I expect to kill the wheels by blunt force before fatigue gets them.
Posted 6 months ago # -
swapped my 819 or Flows.
I like the flows much better.
Posted 6 months ago # -
had very good results with Stan's ZTR Flow rims the past 4 years, always on tubeless setups using Roval rim tape, Stan's valve units, Stan's solution and Specialized Control series tires
only had 1 Flow rim fail, and this was after 2 years of dirt jumps, pump tracks and skatepark abuse on my short-travel bike (Banshee Rampant)
the rim developed small cracks around a number of the spoke holes, but considering it was ridden like a big BMX, it was not surprising really?
Posted 6 months ago # -
Hope the OP dont mind me posting in here.
Ive just got my flows / pro2's today ,love them after my first ride this evening after always using mavics.
I tried tubeless with some brand new tyres. Had the yellow tape and valve fitted when i bought them , I cant for the life of me get them to seal.
Ive used stans milk which is leaking all around the bead of the tyre.The tyres are brand new ,none tubeless / tubeless ready Schwalbe fat alberts.
Am i best to use a tube first with the tyres and to set the yellow tape as im not sure if this has been done by the shop i bought them from?
Posted 6 months ago # -
Go on youtube and watch the official Stans video. All 11 minutes of it. That should sort your problems.
Posted 6 months ago # -
J - fit a tube to the tyre and pump it up to around 40psi and leave it over night, this will make the bead of the tyre "fit" the bead-loc of the rim really well.
Deflate it, remove the tube and they'll go up with a track pump
Posted 6 months ago # -
Worth adding to that- only half-remove the tyre, unbead it from one side so you can remove the tube but leave the other side on the bead. Makes the next part half as difficult.
Only ever had a single tyre I couldn't inflate with a trackpump, mind, and that one wouldn't bead up even with a tube in so was just a bad tyre. This does not stop me from gladly using my compressor!
Posted 6 months ago # -
They can be a pain! i allways use a compressor to inflate them, if no luck from the vid go back to the shop
& i'm sure they will show you what to do.Posted 6 months ago # -
Thanks guys....Steve - Yeah ive fitted tubes and been using them this evening ,Ill bang the pressure upto 40psi and have a bash at getting them to seal tomorrow.
Cant believe the difference in feel of the bike with these fitted
Posted 6 months ago # -
soaping the tyre and rim helps as well
Posted 6 months ago # -
Eyelets maybe a good idea, but if you weigh eleven stone perhaps not necessary.
Posted 6 months ago # -
Another vote for Flows here. Wider, more solid, little wieght sacrifice and definitely confidence inspiring. I've put countless dings in my 819s but never so much as put my flows out of true.
Easy decision
Posted 6 months ago # -
i also dumped my 819's for flows this year, the flows are much lighter and wider and look just as good if that means anything, although the quality of finish is better on the mavic's IMO,
i'll be sticking with flows from now on, i run tubeless ready tyres but with tubes in and they ares till lighter than the 819
Posted 6 months ago # -
blah blah blah flows
flow fanboys
My EN521 makes the flow (little f) look like an ickle starter bike, with wheels without eyelets and flobba dobba spoke tension. Great, if you are nine stone twelfty.
Hype.
Posted 6 months ago # -
Flows are good, as said, but I too have had trouble getting tyres to seal on them. I've had tubeless tyres blow off, and when I run a std tyre as tubeless then you need a rimstrip. Just taping the rim up (like you can on DR E540/5.1 or 521) often won't work.
Posted 6 months ago # -
Flows for me all the way, strong rim and not had any problems so far.
I run tubeless now and have had no issues at allHave used only a track pump to inflate tubeless tyres by to get them to pop and seat properly on the rim.
I inflate to max tyre psi and then if needed roll the edge of the sidewall
I get a seal every time very quickly and didnt need the fluid to get the seal, just in case of thorns / nails etcPosted 6 months ago # -
I'd love to know the real weights, not with gear, actual bodyweights of the flows' users.
Six stone twelfty.
Posted 6 months ago # -
was going to build up some 819s I have,but they are a bit podgy.570g-with the nipple inserts.and a bit narrow.
Saw the new wtb rims,even asked here about them,nobody seems to know anything.I think i'm going to give them a try,similar specs to stans rims,half the price.what few wtb things i've bought seem to have been good value.
tcs I think is the name.Posted 6 months ago # -
15 stone here, and my Flows get used in the peaks every week, still going strong and easy to set up tubeless!!
Posted 6 months ago # -
I'd love to know the real weights, not with gear, actual bodyweights of the flows' users.
Do you think that maybe, just maybe, that it's not about being a 'fan boi' or whatever, but that they're actually a better product?
The EN521 is heavier and not designed to be run tubeless. I'd buy Flows every time. But to be honest that holds true with any Mavic rim!
Posted 6 months ago # -
Mavic rims are stronger and better made than Stan's, but currently Stan's have the better designs for tubeless and the big tyres we are running these days. Until Mavic join the 21'st century with their rim only options Stan's (and especially for the me the Flow) rims are the benchmark.
I've broken a couple of Flow's, but I think it worth putting up with that risk for reduced weight and the better tyre profile that the rim gives over the skinny Mavic offerings. I'm with Northwave about the eyelets... I've usually managed to destroy something else when I spot a cracked eyelet!!!
PS. For DH things are possibly different but who cares what the moto-cross-wanabies think anyway
Posted 6 months ago # -
for UST tyres 819s
for non UST tyres flows.
generally (weight price etc) flowsPosted 6 months ago # -
Mavic rims are stronger and better made than Stan's
Based on what? They don't really 'map' against each other, so it's hard to say which is tougher. The Arch is lighter than an XC717, but tougher. The XC717 may be tougher than a Crest (IME they're certainly not though), but they're more than 20% heavier, and narrower.
As Mavic 'invented' UST, they're not likely to give up, although they're fighting a losing battle it seems, and the XM819 is just the 3.1 which was the original UST rim released in 2002.
Posted 6 months ago # -
I've been using 819's for a few years now. The biggest gripe I have with them is that they are narrow and not really suited to tyres over 2.3". If I tried to run large volume tyres, they would end up out of shape, and I also suffered quite a few sidewall punctures running bigger rubber, I think the tyre was folding over and getting nipped on the rim. On the plus side you can fit and inflate almost any UST tyre without the need for a compressor.
Weight wise my 819/Pro2's come in at 940g front, and 1065g rear with tubeless valves fitted so not particularly light.I also have 2 sets of Flow / Pro2's. One pair replaced a set of Mavic 823 DH rims, and the other has replaced my 819’s. One pair came with standard spokes and one with straight pull spokes. Both pairs are about 130-140g lighter than the 819's, and that's with yellow tape and valves fitted. The Flows have been pretty good so far, although I managed to put a dent in the rear of one pair on their first outing last year but since then they have remained straight and ding free. They work well with most non-UST Scwalbe, Maxxis and Continental tyres up to 2.5", I've only burped one rear tyre that was a wee bit low on pressure anyway and I landed a fast jump sideways. I would love to go lighter but I find the cost / weight / ease of set up of the Flows to be pretty damn good.
Posted 6 months ago # -
Mavic rims are stronger and better made than Stan's
Based on what?
My experience...
Better made - see the joins on stans vs. the joins on Mavic.
Stronger - In my experience... from trying to repair a dinged rim bead Mavic's have thicker material and bend back to shape nicely; Stans are thinner and made of a substance that has a tendency to crack. Also... when I've killed a Mavic wheel and stamped/bent it back into shape to get home it's been harder to achieve than on a Flow... obviously none of these are "scientific" or "engineeringy" but I'm happy with what I said as an "observation" on two of the important qualities of the two
Posted 6 months ago # -
From my understanding the Flows only achieve their lightness advantage, compared to say a DT5.1 (EX500) or Mavic EN521, by doing without eyelets. And because they lack eyelets, spoke tension has to be less, less or only equal to rider load I recall reading, which could mean they go out of whack sooner when the spokes lose more tension over time as a natural reaction to time and use?
The Stan's are overpriced IMO. Which means when faced with Hope Hoop options for example, almost everyone goes for Stan's because of the percieved saving. I simply don't see how Stan's Taiwanese Sun made rim costs more than a French made Mavic. Then again, Mavic is Mavic, wheras Stan's is Stan's and Sun Ringle..
I'm just bored reading that everyone goes for flows.. kinda boring... when did eyelets on rims and high spoke tension become a thing to avoid?
Posted 6 months ago # -
I have the same spoke tension with my 721s, my 819s and my Flows
Mavic do make some great rims but I don't think they even try to make their tubeless rims competitive. Probably know that people will buy them regardless.
Posted 6 months ago # -
I just don't see eyelets as a big selling point. I've known as many eyeleted rims crack as non. In fact I don't know of any Stan's rims first hand to have done it, but I've read stories on here.
Country of manufacture is pretty irrelevant. How can an S-Works Epic cost more than an Orange 5?
Is there evidence to support the 'spokes go slack over time because there's no eyelets' theory? Sounds like Mavic Fanboi crap to me
Posted 6 months ago #
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