Just been out on a lunch time ride which was going lovely until I came across a Derbyshire CC van. Two workmen were putting up a notice at the Redmires end indicating that in a couple of weeks it will be sanitised up to the Sheffield border which I think is Stanage Pole.

Crushed granite he said. Which I don’t think is what they used else where so he’s probably wrong. It’s not road planings but its still bad news. He also said the horse riders have been complaining. Well I’ve been riding that section for 25 years and I can count on one hand the number of horses I’ve seen on there. May be that is why they complained. And i know we have to share the trails but still very annoying.

Got to say I’ve not ridden it or chappel Gate since they were sanitised last itme.

Not deliberately avoiding them, but I’m not local anymore so wouldn’t go out of my way to ride the ‘improved’ versions after a long drive to get there.

Oi! DCC! I’m one of those pople who don’t visit you anymore and don’t spend money there as a result of your policy!

Is it not pretty flat all the way up to there anyway? As long as they leave off the pack horse path I can’t see it making much difference

The rocky challenge is being removed. The silver lining is you can sometimes get a nice jump from a drainage channel.

I guess it’s another bit of trail where we need to pray for a savage winter to return it to its previous state and show the council what a waste of money this all it.

I’m pretty sure the added speed from these super smooth motorway trails is going to cause some trouble soon.

Bring it on I say. It means the whole causeway will be rideable as a climb and those who aren’t confident riding the plantation have an alternative dh.

I’m sure someone will complain it’s not in keeping with the area but it’s surrounded by man made stuff

It was only flattened a couple of years ago anyway, wasn’t it?

Only half of it was resurfaced last time

I shall be interested to see if in 2 or 3 years time DCC still feel they have the funds to maintain these new motorways.

He also said the horse riders have been complaining. Well I’ve been riding that section for 25 years and I can count on one hand the number of horses I’ve seen on there.

Maybe that’s cos it’s too rough, so they cant ride it..?

We need a sense of perspective on these things. They don’t exist solely for us to justify our 6″ enduro bikes and show off our rad skills. They are there for the benefit of a range of users.

Give it a year or two and nature will take its course. Recent stretch of motorway near us is starting to show the old drainage channels and ruts reappearing.

Stanage will be overrun by mobility scooters before you know it.

We need a sense of perspective on these things. They don’t exist solely for us to justify our 6″ enduro bikes and show off our rad skills. They are there for the benefit of a range of users.

I don’t think people are saying that, just asking for a bit of sympathy in the way tracks are maintained, which sometimes seems a little lacking where DCC are involved.

I’m actually beyond caring now. I await the day when the so-called Beast is concreted over and a whole bunch of STW apologists tell us that we have no right to query the action as the trails are for ‘everyone’ and besides, gates and dry-stone walls are man-made so this is just more of the same.

Genuinely, this is a mountain biking website, why shouldn’t people stick up for the rights of mountain bikers?

why shouldn’t people stick up for the rights of mountain bikers?

Do we have a right to trails with our preferred amount of gnar? I’m not sure we do tbh.

The “it’ll wash away” argument probably won’t be valid for much longer if they do any more work like the horrendous stuff they’ve put on Chapel Gate.

If they were stopping us riding these trails then I’d say BadlyWiredDog had a point.

But they’re not. They are resurfacing the path to make is easier for all users.

As much as we might want these paths to exist purely for our enjoyment – they don’t.
How would we react to 4×4 users wanting BOATS to be left in a state that was challenging for them, deep mud for instance? I’d guess that we’d be against that. And rightly so.

We have a right to ride the trails, we don’t have a right to have public bridleways etc maintaned in a challenging state.

Si

Things change. They always have, and they will keep doing so. In a few million years the Peaks will look like this:

And then how will we all get our “gnar on”??

😉

Yes but… I can see the points about mtbers not having the right to expect BWs to be left to suit them but surely horse riders are expecting them to be adjusted to their needs. When Houndkirk was first M1d I met a group of walkers moaning bitterly about the new surface which was done allegedly to placate horsists. I know you can’t please everybody but consultation wouldn’t go amiss.

Rarely ridden up there, partly due to needing alot of road to link a route up.

Preference is for Horse users – hence the term BRIDLEway

It’s a by-way…although with a TRO.

Things change. They always have, and they will keep doing so. In a few million years the Peaks will look like this:

Like somewhere in the US?

As I said about bit after Rushup that needed sanitising as it was dangerous to other users- how are horse riders supposed to safely navigate the trail? Its for everyone not just DH cyclists..

surely horse riders are expecting them to be adjusted to their needs

Last time I walked on it (a really long time ago) it looked impassable for horses. So by sanitizing it, it allows the trail to be used by everyone, not just one group.

It’d hardly be fair to exclude one group just to keep it to another group’s preferences. You will still be able to ride it after it’s been sanitized.

If horse riders had churned your favourite trail to mud, I’m sure you’d be arguing the opposite point of view.

Do we have a right to trails with our preferred amount of gnar? I’m not sure we do tbh.

‘Rights’ was the wrong word, what I’m trying to say is that it’s not black and white, it’s not unreasonable to expect sympathetic trail restoration – Cut Gate is a good example of this – and it’s not unreasonable for mountain bikers to want trails that are interesting to ride.

But all you have to do on here is offer an opinion that simply flattening trails and covering them with chipping is possibly not ideal and you get all the stuff about how trails are for everyone, so flattening them is perfectly okay.

I’m a mountain biker, I’d prefer trails to be interesting to ride. Is that an unreasonable opinion to hold on a mountain biking website? Seems like it is, eh…

I don’t think anyone actually enjoys the new surfaces other than horse riders (of which I see very, very few in the Peak). Walkers find them dull and uncomfortable going, they spoil views and cyclists don’t enjoy riding them as well as their speeds likely increasing, upsetting everyone. The number of people on Chapel Gate on foot since they resurfaced it has plummeted, in fact I’ve not seen any on it in 2 years, nor many other cyclists.

Left as they are the horse riders, who are a tiny minority of Peak users, are left out but walkers and bike riders enjoy it more. Greatest good for the greatest number and all that.

http://www.peakdistrictmtb.org/ or http://www.ridesheffield.org.uk/

I don’t think anyone actually enjoys the new surfaces

Don’t ride it then, plenty of trails around. It’s not an MTB park.

But all you have to do on here is offer an opinion that simply flattening trails and covering them with chipping is possibly not ideal and you get all the stuff about how trails are for everyone, so flattening them is perfectly okay.

No you misunderstand. I’m not saying it’s ok. Just that they aren’t YOUR trails. If you have an actual point about the manner of trail restoration then make it, as you eventually have done.

I’m a mountain biker, I’d prefer trails to be interesting to ride. Is that an unreasonable opinion to hold on a mountain biking website? Seems like it is, eh…

Of course it bloody well isn’t. Don’t be ridiculous. Rather than assume we’re all towpath riding types, which you KNOW isn’t the case, maybe you should ask yourself if you haven’t managed to get your point across well.

Sadly, the only places where trails can be maintained specially for mountain bikers are at trail centres. Everywhere else we can legally ride is part of a historic network of routes that developed initially for people on foot or with horses, and we are tbe johnny come latelys. They have to be maintained so all groups with a right of access can use them relatively safely.

It would be great if those who complain on here could bring sufficient weight to bear on the landowners/authorities to allow some specific mtb trails in the state “we” want them, if we could ever agree on that, but until then, we live and ride with what we have.

We need a sense of perspective on these things. They don’t exist solely for us to justify our 6″ enduro bikes and show off our rad skills. They are there for the benefit of a range of users.

I don’t think the causeway was every that, it was/is an old roman* road cut/built into the side of the cliff. It’s a spectuacular feat of 2000 year old engineering that it’s a trail at all! The whole thing was rideable quickly on a 80mm XC hardtail with only a couple of sections requiring you to either launch yourself over a rocky outcrop or pick a line through.

It may have been impassible to horses due to the plethora of 4″ stones that made up the surface, but it’s probably been impassible to horses since the Romans left and we went into the dark ages 1700 years ago!

*I susppose a crushed rock surface isn’t actualy that far off what it was originaly.

It would be great if those who complain on here could bring sufficient weight to bear on the landowners/authorities to allow some specific mtb trails in the state “we” want them, if we could ever agree on that, but until then, we live and ride with what we have.

“We” don’t want a trail center type trail, “we” want the trails left (within reason) as they are. For want of a better word “natural”. Completely sanitising them like this and dumbing down to the lowest common denominator isn’t what it should be about, it’s Stanage Edge in the Peak District, not frickin Center Parks or a trail center.

What would be the point of MTB specific trails, it wouldn’t be ‘Peak district mountainbiking’, it’d just be ‘A.N.Other trailcenter’.

I don’t think anyone actually enjoys the new surfaces
Don’t ride it then, plenty of trails around. It’s not an MTB park.

This refers to walkers too. Are you really trying to tell 95% of the people that use the Peak to use other trails?

Walkers don’t like a trail surface? That’s a new one on me.

it’s Stanage Edge in the Peak District

It is, yes – does confer any kind of special requirement? Is Stannage Edge supposed to be a particular way?

No, they don’t. It’s boring to walk on, and loose gravel isn’t nice underfoot compared to solid rock.

He also said the horse riders have been complaining. Well I’ve been riding that section for 25 years and I can count on one hand the number of horses I’ve seen on there.

Maybe that’s cos it’s too rough, so they cant ride it..?[/quote]

…which he acknowledged in his next sentence that you didn’t quote.

They have to be maintained so all groups with a right of access can use them relatively safely.

It’s a little bizarre that these lanes have been left in an “unkempt” state for donkeys years and suddenly DCC have decided they need maintaining. Some pressure has clearly been brought to bear from somewhere.

The conspiracy theorists might think that DCC feel if they sanitise trails the MTBers will go elsewhere. Problem solved.

I think it might be time for some modification to the status of some rights of way. According to Natural England some 78% of the 91000 miles of PROWs are footpaths. http://www.naturalengland.org.uk/ourwork/access/rightsofway/prow/default.aspx
Maybe that balance needs some modification.

munrobiker – Member

No, they don’t. It’s boring to walk on, and loose gravel isn’t nice underfoot compared to solid rock.

There’s walkers and then there’s Walkers. We mostly get small-w walkers around here ime and they like smooth paths.

I’m a walker, and I can’t stand walking on these wide gravel paths.
I know many more who are the same.
Stone flags are also borderline, but at least once they get a bit overgrown, they sit nicer in the landscape.

One of my favourite places for a stroll – Alderly Edge is getting ruined by making all the trails wheelchair access.

No you misunderstand. I’m not saying it’s ok. Just that they aren’t YOUR trails. If you have an actual point about the manner of trail restoration then make it, as you eventually have done.

No, I understand that. What you seem to be having difficulty with is the idea that it’s not unreasonable as a mountain biker to think that sympathetic trail restoration is a good thing. You can believe that without claiming ownership of a trail.

And as Luke points out, the sort of surfaces which are being used are just as unpleasant for running and walking as they are for mountain biking.

But the reality is that whatever people say, you’ll pick holes in it, because that’s simply what you do. If DCC nuked the freakin’ trails you’d emerge from a cloud of radioactive dust shrugging your shoulders and tell us all that it had to be done to save the trails and anyway, mountain bikes have no right to demand anything of anyone.

Hold on – this is the Sheffield side right – the bit that has never really been much of a challenge to anyone. The bit that’s in better shape than many of the roads in Sheffield.

The only bit that is a challenge is the 200m from the crest to the gate posts on the Derbyshire side. That is now very unpleasant to everyone but the hardcore, but the cost of doing anything is prohibitive due to the state of the retaining wall.

So now we’ll have two very smooth sections and a horrendous boulder field in the middle – that should keep everyone unhappy.

What you seem to be having difficulty with is the idea that it’s not unreasonable as a mountain biker to think that sympathetic trail restoration is a good thing.

Well that’s fine, and yes of course sympathetic trail restoration is great – my original issue was with whoever it was used the word ‘rights’.

But the reality is that whatever people say, you’ll pick holes in it, because that’s simply what you do.

I don’t pick holes in stuff that doesn’t need it 🙂

personally, i’m not against a little trail ‘taming’ here and there – as Mr Podge points out, a tamed descent can become an ascent, opening up new route planning options.

the issue taken to DCC is that they’re doing an awful lot with little or no consultation.

with a little discussion, the work could be

a) nicer
b) cheaper
c) more likely to last more than a few years.

all of the above has been achieved elsewhere.

molgrips – Member

…plenty of trails around…

remember that this is the Peak District, where riding on footpaths is illegal, and bridleways are few and far between – people get a bit itchy when those few trails we do have start getting buggered about with.