I was wondering if you guys regularly adjust the spokes in their wheels?

I’ve got a Merlin handbuilt set that I’ve never touched (or had problems with) in nearly 4 years, but “dinging” the spokes with my finger, judging from the tone the tension sounds on the low side to my (untrained) ears. And the tones are all completely different.

I’ve got a couple of books on wheelbuilding and watched a few youtube vids and I’m keen to get a spoke wrench and see what I can do!

Thoughts? Leave well alone? Tweak away? ? ??

I know most people frown on it but I got one of the Park tension meters fromt he classifieds on here.

It takes all the ‘is it quite right’ anxiety out of building wheels/checking existing ones as you can tell really quickly if the tension is in the right range and that all spokes are failry even on each side of a wheel.

Any one ever tweak their wheels? Perhaps I’m just looking for jobs to do…

Mmmmm… if you’re keen I’d just build some from scratch/rebuild them with a new rim or something.

If they’re running straight and true and spokes aren’t actually flapping about loose, I’d leave them be (also, I doubt dirty/old spokes would ever produce the same note as one another).

Yes I’ve tweaked a couple of sets of Merlin wheels and have recently respoked the non drive sides due to the ACI spokes not being up to the job.

Also re-tensioned a couple of rear Hope / Stan rims and have another one to do. Once done I spoke lock the nipples and I don’t need to touch them after that

+1 for the Park Tension meter.

NO need to tweak…just tighten up if they are loose.

NOWT wrong with ACI IME

Yep, I keep an eye on mine. I have a pair of the old Easton Havocs that I’ve never had to touch, but I generally check spoke tension every now and then, and if something’s way out I chuck it in the truing stand. It used to be the case that an out of tension (and therefore usually also out of true) wheel was easily spotted, because the pads started touching the rim. Disc brakes have killed that off (whilst doing lots of awesome things elsewhere) so i try and make a conscious effort to check true and round every now and then. But then I tend to wear wheels out rather than destroy them.

I broke a fair few on my Merlin , XT hub / Stan Flow combination. I had 2 sets and both had the problem i.e rear non drive side. Broke 2 on one descent off Jetlag at Afan on my Spicy.

Maybe my 17stone + kit didn’t help

Becomes a pain with tubeless / yellow tape set up.

So no evidence it was the brand rather than the build or other factors?

Who frowns on using a spoke tension meter? I use one at the end once the tensioning and truing is complete to check my work too ensure even spoke tension.

Lots of us just don’t see the need.

Loads of circumstantial evidence that logically stacks up and points in one direction. It would look like a rant and starts on the road side with wheel problems and etc, etc ………..Lets say I’m happy I no longer have a problem.

Lets put this into context. I’ve broken 8 7 frames (Including an Colnago EPS), a stem, carbon road bars, carbon forks and two chains so breaking spokes are a small side issue.

I also use my spoke tension meter at the end of build to check my work but at this stage I can, by feel, be 90% accurate on the spoke tensions.

Fair play…I’ve never used one nor seen any other mechanic do so, sometimes those with tension meters tell me my wheels won’t be as good which is annoying…

Mind you I could use one to build my new wheels-the rims have a tension limit…

I use the park tool and typically build mine to plus or minus 5%. Beyond that, I think I’d have to start questioning the tool. In your situation, I’d be thinking along the lines of if it isn’t broken, don’t fix it. If the wheel runs true and no spokes are obviously loose, then carry on. I don’t routinely check tension but I’d notice a spoke problem when I clean the wheels. I only then worry about tension if there’s a wobble on them. By the way, the instructions for the park tool says plus or minus 20% which is a very wide range.

I check the tension on mine (with fingers) regularly and then tighten as required. Every few weeks I true them as required, generally the rear needs it but the front is always OK.

You’ve half fecked them up by even *thinking* of tweaking. Don’t complete the job.

As has been posted before – get some trash rims (£10 ebay MTB perhaps) – some new spokes (ebay again, not LBS) – and build some new ones yourself. You will need to use an online spoke length calculator, and perhaps hardest of all – how to measure the hub and the ERD of the trash rims.

It sounds like you’ll enjoy it – just don’t mess up your good wheels while you’re learning.

Most times the rear spokes will come a bit loose as the spokes stretch. With the rear wheel being dished and one side of the spokes having more tension to pull the rim towards the drive side. Plus all you weight on the rear and power going through the pedals to the rim does make the rear wheel more prone to needing a bit of tweaking here and there.

I have left it alone in the past and trashed the odd rim with being lazy and not being arsed to do it! I knew the teniosn had gone a bit in the rear and then done a bumpy, rocky, and fast peaks ride and trashed a couple of rims.

Best and simplest thing to do is stick the wheel in a truing stand or make one out of your frame some blue tack and an old spoke with a nipple on the end which will give you a good idea of how true the wheel is while you make adjustment.

Just work around the wheel giving each spoke half a turn with the spoke key. Give the spokes a feel and repeat if they still feel a bit too springy. You might have to give the drive side spokes a quarter turn more than the none drives side though to keep the wheel dished ok.

Don’t worry too much about the roundness of the wheel, small adjustment evenly made as above won’t knock that out.

Not quite sure of the advice stating it’d be better to build new wheels than re-tension your old ones. Once the new ones are built is it also not advisable to re-tension then time to time or do you build another pair, doesn’t make sense to me.

A good place to start out is re-truing a wheel to build your confidence, this should teach the necessary patience you need to build wheels for the first few times.

Most times the rear spokes will come a bit loose as the spokes stretch

That might be the case if spokes stretched in use – not typically a problem on this planet.

To the OP: don’t mess with something which works.

What I mean is when the spokes are under tension they work loose. Or are you trying to say spokes don’t work loose from the nipple! But I got a typical STW come back! Its obvious the OP as a problem if his spokes are loose then the wheel strength is compromised by quite a degree!

are you trying to say spokes don’t work loose from the nipple

they don’t for me with a well built wheel.

if they do for you then some spoke freeze may help, I’ve never needed it, though.

Only time I touch my wheels is the occasional true if they get a bit battered or fitting new rims/building new ones.

What I mean is when the spokes are under tension they work loose. Or are you trying to say spokes don’t work loose from the nipple!

No they don’t. No they don’t. Is that a typical STW come-back? Or is complaining about somebody correcting you a typical STW defensive reaction?

So spokes just don’t come loose they must defy science then! > please explain then how a wheel looses tension? I really would like to know. You have already established the wheel rim and spokes don’t stretch! So we have a case of something defying science here. (Not for the first time on these forums)

Yes you are typical of STW aracer. That’s a good feather to have in your cap!

explain then how a wheel looses tension

I think the point we’re trying to make is that a well built wheel will not spontaneously lose spoke tension unless there’s some damage somewhere.

Its going to loose tension over a period of time no matter what is done to the wheel. So I suppose Steve Peat just rides the same set of wheel and would never have them tensioned back up then? Its like saying a well built car will never need and maintenance and will last for ever as it was built by Honda!

yes, cars need maintenance but the bolts tend not to spontaneously undo once they’re done up right.

I suspect that Steve Peats wheels don’t need retensioning unless he damages them. They may be *checked* every now and again because loss of tension can be an indication of a problem but they won’t routinely be tightened up ‘just because’

I think you might be wrong!

I think you might be wrong!

fair enough. That doesn’t mean I am though 🙂

Its going to loose tension over a period of time no matter what is done to the wheel.

<typical STW answer> no it’s not – parhaps you’d like to explain what it is that gives you the impression it will? </STW>

Do you also think steel frames go soft with age?

Clearly the STW hive mind is right a lot more than I thought.

A properly built & spec’d wheel will not lose tension.

I’m no expert but my understanding is that in a properly built wheel the spokes will not need tensioning for thousands of miles. I did over 10’000 miles loaded touring on a rear wheel without needing to tension a spoke. I’m no lightweight at 16 stone.

A wheel builder’s explanation of why the spokes on a good hand built wheel should not slacken off is at

http://forum.ctc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=49702&start=30#p412715

Spokes never get tighter after a wheel is built, they only ever get slacker, so I do what I can to limit this. When the wheel is at or near final tension, I punch the spoke heads into the flange, using a drift derived from a joiner’s nail set and a light hammer. If you look carefully at an un-punched wheel, the spoke heads are not all flush with the flange – you need just enough clout to set the heads flush. Then I stress-relieve, this makes the spoke elbows form a radius into the hub flange (that radius is there on any used hub). Having punched the heads and stress-relieved, it usually takes about half a turn a spoke to get back to the same tension. I reckon that if I didn’t do this, the wheels would slacken that half turn pretty soon when they were ridden.
In summary, to stop spokes slackening off, I set the heads and elbows into the hub flange (riding will do this anyway, but the spokes will slacken), and get the tension tight and even. When the wheel is “finished” ie. true, round, tight and even, rim centred, I put the axle end on a wood block on the floor, and stress the wheel by pressing down hard on opposite sides of the rim with my hands, all the way round, both ways up. There are lots of noises as spokes un wind, and rear wheels with light rims you can feel them “give” when you have them driveside up. The wheel will go out of true, so you get the final cycle; stress the wheel, true the wheel, balance the tension, stress the wheel, true the wheel, balance the tension, until you have a wheel that is stable, and has an acceptable balance between eveness of tension and trueness.

You win the wheels stay as tight as a virgins tuppence! 🙂

Frames crack when they get old too! 🙂