up..
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/news/8350157/Motorway-speed-limit-could-be-raised-to-80mph.html

down…
http://www.dailyexpress.co.uk/posts/view/231479

so basically staying where it is. WTF?

He’s an idiot if he thinks raising the speed limit to 80mph will make any significant difference at all to journey times on the whole.

Wow. Deep misunderstanding of how traffic flows and car efficiently there. This transport security really does seem like a huge idiot. Why do they let people with no idea do these important jobs? Do they not get people to check what he is going to say before he speak to the press?

Do they not get people to check what he is going to say before he speak to the press?

Isn’t that the work of the Civil Servants?

I thought so, but clearly his Civil Servants don’t like him, because the level of stupidity of stuff he comes out with is outstanding.

How Motorways work

TBH I’m not bothered either way, but what really bugs me is why do all the comments in online versions of papers run from newest first by default??

I thought so, but clearly his Civil Servants don’t like him,

They’re allowed to have fun too, aren’t they?

nice, in depth article in the telegraph there.

“There were 132 deaths on British motorways in 2009, the last year for which full figures are available. In France and Italy the maximum speed limit is 81mph. In Ireland, Spain and Portugal it is 75mph. “

Yes, now print the death stats for France Italy, Ireland, Spain and Portugal.

We have the some of the lowest fatality figures in the world for our motorways, lets keep it that way.

I had to drive 160 miles for an interview the other week. Because I was was paying for the petrol I did the whole trip with the cruise control set at around 60mph.
You know it was incredibly relaxing and I had no issues with nodding off like I normally do on long journeys. Plus the car did 46mpg!

rockhopper +1

Although I do it because above ~57mph the midget lifts its nose and the steering goes light!

Wow. Deep misunderstanding of how traffic flows and car efficiently there. This transport security really does seem like a huge idiot. Why do they let people with no idea do these important jobs? Do they not get people to check what he is going to say before he speak to the press?

That post is just a little bit too ironic.

Yes, now print the death stats for France Italy, Ireland, Spain and Portugal.

Well I’ve driven in France, and I accept that the road death stats could be down to an extra 12mph on the motorways. However I suspect it’s more to do with the fact that lots of young men drive like the criminals in the first Mad Max film.

It’s the extra 12mph they’re allowed. Makes them crazy!

I’ve driven in all those countries and I’d say that’s a fairly common theme to be honest. Perhaps it’s an overall approach to safety which includes the lower speed limits that generates our safer roads.

Yes, now print the death stats for France Italy, Ireland, Spain and Portugal.

We have the some of the lowest fatality figures in the world for our motorways, lets keep it that way.

Isn’t the speed the main factor and not the limit? That’s to say that if 90% of the accidents in the UK occur within the limits and 70% of accidents of the accidents in Spain occur outside the limit, we’re comparing apples with pears, it’s a little more complicated than just comparing the accident levels against the speed limit.
BTW the speed limit in Spain is 110km/hr which I think equates to about 66mph, no?

it would help the economy by generating more fuel revenue. not through shortened journey times.

they’d be better off upping the education of drivers so that more that ~10% could use the motorway properly!!

this morning i was the only car in the inside lane for about 1km. all three lanes travelling at 65mph!

Bear in mind that Hammond is on record as saying electric cars will ease congestion.

The default urban limit should be dropped to 20, and the motorway increased to 80 but rigidly enforced. We also need more police action against people driving like idiots, tail-gating, etc.

cranberry – Member

That post is just a little bit too ironic.

Are you suggesting something I have said is wrong? If so please say so. Or is it a veiled comment at something else, if so please be explicit.

France …. the maximum speed limit is 81mph

is not quite the whole story –

Its 130kph on the dry on motorways and 110 (ie under 70) in the wet and 110/100 on dual carriageways.

We also need more police action against people driving like idiots, tail-gating, etc

Yep.

BTW the speed limit in Spain is 110km/hr which I think equates to about 66mph, no?

It’s not yet, at the moment it’s 120kmh. The 110 limit is coming in from 07/03/11 (supposedly a temporary measure – it’s apparently to help Spain save on fuel given the current problems in the middle east).

My journey times in Germany are well below what they used to be in the UK. Two main reason higher speed limits on motorways and legal enforcement of lane discipline ( a decent public transport system that is a real alternative to driving also probably helps).

Its naive at best to think that the 70mph motorway speed limets have any significant impact on motorway fatality’s, other than perhaps making people believe they are on a morale crusade by driving at 70mph in any lane they want and blocking other traffic.

other than perhaps making people believe they are on a morale crusade by driving at 70mph in any lane they want and blocking other traffic

The flipside being the nobs doing 100mph in the righthand/overtaking/fast lane despite the only being 3 other cars on the motorway.
Your speed has got pretty much bugger all to do with lane discipline.
But I think if you raise the speed limit you will get more casualties. I see plenty of people driving at 70 (or more) on the motorway when you can barely see 15ft infront of you due to rain spray or fog. Increase the limit to 100 and those same people will now be doing 100 whatever the conditions.

Its naive at best to think that the 70mph motorway speed limets have any significant impact on motorway fatality’s

I don’t think it is but if you think you can provide evidence to the contrary then go for it. I reckon that if people drive faster (and while speed limits are rarely observed they are at least a guide), then there is more chance of a fatality when something goes wrong.

I’ve found German motorways to be a bit of a pain in the bum tbh.

Oh and 20mph for urban sounds pretty good to me, maybe increase the motorway speed but have a wet and dry limit like france (which I hadn’t heard of before this) and I don’t think dual carriageways should be over 70

I think the speed limits are generally fine as they are, but maybe the motorway limit should be raised to 80mph given that probably 50% of the traffic is doing this speed on a regular basis anyhow.

What I think should be more tightly policed are driving errors such as tailgating, middle lane hogging, overtaking without checking the blindspot, red light jumping and so on. But I suppose those things require somebody to actually make a judgement on rather than just saying YOU SPEEDING AND SPEEDING=BAD LOL MONIEZ PLZ

the limit on most of the motorways i drive on seem to be around 85 anyway.

YOU SPEEDING AND SPEEDING=BAD LOL MONIEZ PLZ

Or, to put it another way: Here are the rules, if you break them you get fined. If you feel hard done by – tough.

Keep the limit on motorways at 70.

If they raise it they take away the thrill of breaking it……

molgrips – Member

YOU SPEEDING AND SPEEDING=BAD LOL MONIEZ PLZ

Or, to put it another way: Here are the rules, if you break them you get fined. If you feel hard done by – tough.

But is a rule which is broken by 50% of people regularly actually a valid rule? Especially considering things such as those I listed which I consider much more unsafe are seemingly not policed at all.

CIP: I’ve seen a police car over take a middle lane mong and go back to the outside lane without doing anything. Yet that is dangerous, anybody driving properly who wants to overtake the MLM has to go through two lanes each way instead of one.

I’ve also been tailgated by an unmarked police car. Oh but of course that’s fine as long as they haven’t gone over the arbitrary number on the dashboard.

its a valid point doc if you upped it to 80 everyone would just charge round at 90.

nonk – Member

its a valid point doc if you upped it to 80 everyone would just charge round at 90.

Seemingly everybody already does. I always feel like the slowest car on the road doing 70.

I think I’m seeing a downward trend in motorway speeds on my journey to work. 4 years ago if you were doing 70mph you were in the minority and there were plenty of people going past you like you were stood still. Now 70 – 75mph seems to be the norm.

What I will rant about is people whose speed is constantly changing. Yes, I have pulled out to overtake you but that does not mean I want a race, there is no need to speed up now I am next to you. Also, just because there is a hill is doesn’t mean you have to change speed, ease off or on to your pedal and you will remain at a contsant speed. Thanks!

But is a rule which is broken by 50% of people regularly actually a valid rule?

EDIT: It validity is not influenced by the % obeying the rule by by it’s rational.

The % of people obey the rule is governed by the expected loss. and the high no of people breaking a rule implies that the expected loss is not high enough. Where

Expected loss = Probability of getting caught x consequence of getting caught.

There are other driving behaviour and laws that maybe as dangerous and more so but

1. They may be harder to gain a conviction on without intense surveillance

2. Proposing removing or adjusting a law because there are other things the MAY be worse but not as well enforced is trying to relate two unrelated things. It’s a pretty strange argument when you look at it.

What I will rant about is people whose speed is constantly changes. …

Agreed pet motorway hate.

Yes, now print the death stats for France Italy, Ireland, Spain and Portugal.

It could be very misleading. Not only does it depend in the amount of motorway driving, but also on average speed due to motorway congestion or enforcement. Obviously at 30 mph there are likely to be few fatalities on motorways, but that is not a very good reason for either reducing the maximum speed to that, or encouraging traffic jams……it’s all about balance.

TheBrick – Member
EDIT: It validity is not influenced by the % obeying the rule by by it’s rational.

The % of people obey the rule is governed by the expected loss. and the high no of people breaking a rule implies that the expected loss is not high enough. Where

Expected loss = Probability of getting caught x consequence of getting caught.

There are other driving behaviour and laws that maybe as dangerous and more so but

1. They may be harder to gain a conviction on without intense surveillance

2. Proposing removing or adjusting a law because there are other things the MAY be worse but not as well enforced is trying to relate two unrelated things. It’s a pretty strange argument when you look at it.

The law is in place because 70 is considered a safe limit. However, many (/most?) people are already driving above this speed on a regular basis. This suggests that the safe speed is above 70.

I disagree that it’s a strange argument, the whole point of the limit is safety, and yet other things which are more dangerous are commonly ignored.

I feel your point 1 is irrelevant to this, because as stated I have seen police officers ignoring rules. It need not require intense surveillance, merely the regular traffic officer who is already on the motorway actually doing something about rules they see being broken.

My journey times in Germany are well below what they used to be in the UK. Two main reason higher speed limits on motorways and legal enforcement of lane discipline ( a decent public transport system that is a real alternative to driving also probably helps).

Really? We drive to the south of France each summer (family and riding) and, yes, our journey times are significantly better than they are in the UK. However, I’d reckon most of that is due to the roads being much less congested rather than anything to do with the speed limit. Lane discipline is slightly better but you still get knobs tailgating/closing on slower moving traffic at way over the speed limit.

Our average speed on UK motorway journeys is not even close to 70mph – and raising the limit is not going to make it any faster. In fact the variable speed limits on the M25 were brought in to improve flow – slower speeds = less stop start = better average speed.

The law is in place because 70 is considered a safe limit.

That is a reason (one of several) but not so much rational of how they came to that conclusion.

However, many (/most?) people are already driving above this speed on a regular basis. This suggests that the safe speed is above 70.

Now that is a very strange argument!

Lots of people do something => it must be ok / correct.

That is a pretty crazy idea!

I disagree that it’s a strange argument, the whole point of the limit is safety, and yet other things which are more dangerous are commonly ignored.

You are stating

danger of X> danger of Y

enforcement rate of Y > enforcement rate X

there for we should reduce enforcement of Y and do more enforcement on X.

X and Y are independent. Why would you want to reduce the enforcement of Y? Why not just increase the enforcement of X. They are independent and having less occurrence of Y is still beneficial.

I feel your point 1 is irrelevant to this, because as stated I have seen police officers ignoring rules.

I think you are confused, your comment dose not negate my point. Police officers commit just about every offence out there from murder to speeding. That dose not have any bearing on how hard it is to gain a conviction in the courts.

It need not require intense surveillance, merely the regular traffic officer who is already on the motorway actually doing something about rules they see being broken.

A speeding ticket can be issued without a court appearance, something like a dangerous undertaking move require more evidence and hence relatively a lot more surveillance. Many other offences are a lot harder to bring to court. The CPS require more and better evidence so it is highly relevent.