The missus 61 reg VW Polo 1.2 has suffered engine failure – starved of oil by something failing (presumably the oil pump?), resulting in knackered bearings or pistons (our dealer is rather vague as to which as they havent opened it up, just listened to it- its sounds horrific). Anyway the engine needs replacing VW have advised. The car is under 4 years old (registered Dec 2011) and has only 55k miles on it, with full service history. VW have today advised they wont replace the engine and it will cost us £3500 minimum for a new one. To me this seems rather (ie totally) unreasonable. Is there such thing as motor industry ombudsman we can go to to put our case forward? Anyone have any experience, or dare i ask, opinions?

I’d be contacting VW UK and VW headoffice (Germany) directly and asking if they feel an engine failure after 55 thousand miles is acceptable. (It isn’t.)

And what they will be doing to rectify the situation.

(And if the dealers haven’t opened it up, how do they know what the failure is to advise you that VW UK won’t replace it?)

Sale Of Goods Act might be worth a read too. And possibly CAB, depending on how well your area is funded!

Full service and maintenance history in a ccordance with manufacturer?
I would say that if the engine has failed in this time while having it maintained as prescribed by the manufacturer is unreasonable and the dealer should be sorting it out.

Yep, Service to spec etc. GM the dealer did some sort of diagnostic, whatever that involves. Make no mistake, it sounds horrendous, something has gone properly pear shaped in there and even to someone like me, the first thing i thought when i heard it was ‘new engine’. The sound is unmistakable really. The dealer wants VW to replace the engine – they want the work as much as we want the engine. Its VW UK who have said ‘no’ so far.
I am considering the Sale of Goods Act and CAB for advice.

It’s not SOGA any more – CRA since October

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/consumer-rights-act

Six months or more

After the first six months the burden is on you to prove that the product was faulty at the time of delivery.
In practice, this may require some form of expert report, opinion or evidence of similar problems across the product range.
You have six years to take a claim to the small claims court for faulty goods in England, Wales and Northern Ireland and five years in Scotland.
This doesn’t mean that a product has to last six years – just that you have this length of time in which to make a claim if a retailer refuses to repair or replace a faulty product.

The GM dealer? Where do they fit into this?

VW will be looking for anything out of the ordinary to get themselves out of this.

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/shopping/consumer-rights-refunds-exchange

Satisfactory quality is harder to define. The law says “satisfactory” is what a reasonable person would be happy with, looking at all of the information easily available to you, such as its price and condition. See more later on second-hand goods.

But what’s reasonable? Now there’s a question lawyers have rowed about for years and there’s no set answer.

In a legal context and in a dispute with a shop, it means goods must be in a state that you, or any other normal, reasonable person would think was reasonable.

I don’t think many reasonable people would be happy with an engine failing after 4 years on a car bought new and serviced in line with manufacturer’s recommendations.

Get the full details on the issue, research whether it’s common and then write to them (to make it formal) outlining your rights under the CRA and stating as above that it is not of satisfactory quality.

I don’t expect that they’ll replace it FOC but I do think there’s a very good chance of getting a significant reduction in the price as ‘good will’ if you keep on at them, backing it up with fact.

As always, it’s worth reminding them that you’re a loyal customer and bought VW because it was supposed to be a premium brand with great backup and that you’d be extremely disappointed if that didn’t turn out to be the case. probably not worth mentioning the diesel scandal though as no doubt countless people have been trying it on with that line.

Satisfactory quality is harder to define.

55,000 miles on a dealer serviced car over 5 years is not satisfactory in these days where we can expect an engine to run for 150-200,000 miles. IMO.

After the first six months the burden is on you to prove that the product was faulty at the time of delivery.

I think that part of the CRA doesn’t exactly apply. The car was most likely grand until it stopped pumping oil

GM = me.

Not General Motors. 😉

Might be time to get an independent assessor involved.

And yes, VW will do pretty much anything to make sure that they don’t have to pay. I wouldn’t be hugely surprised to find out that the dealers not opening the engine is part and parcel of the whole “avoid paying for out of warranty work” ethic. Once the engine is opened it’ll be pretty/fairly clear cut about whats failed, and if it should have lasted, and at 55000 miles, with a full dealer service history, i can’t off the top of my head think of anything that would have needed replacing or servicing that could cause a terminal engine failure. If you’d gone past the first belt/waterpump change for instance, it might be a different matter altogether!

It’s the satisfactory quality bit I think that it key though you could argue that a design fault that leads to it failing after 4 years is a faulty product.

Doesn’t sound good but how often do you check oil levels? If these dropped off (which they can quite significantly between services) without topping up you would kill any engine regardless of how well designed it is.

If I were you I’d start paying more attention to what you’re being told.

I’m sure it does sound horrendous, but you’ll need to be able to say more than that if you want to successfully argue you’re within your rights to a new engine.

Good luck.

Edit: never mind

VW UK have been very good at sorting these sort of things in my experience

I got a pedal assembly replaced under “warranty” on my T4 when it was 9 years old and had 160k miles on the clock.
Dealer said “not a chance” so I rang VW UK and talked to them instead.

GM = me.

Not General Motors.
😆 Me no read very well. 😳
Get legal advice as I think that you’re onto a clear winner here.
Don’t forget that VW are running short of money at the moment, so they’ll be reluctant to be spending any more.

design fault that leads to it failing after 4 years is a faulty product.

Not a hope. A design fault affecting 1 out of how many 10,000s (100,000s?) of engines?

philjunior – Member

Doesn’t sound good but how often do you check oil levels? If these dropped off (which they can quite significantly between services) without topping up you would kill any engine regardless of how well designed it is.

This could scupper you too

Very poor customer service by vw.
Oil pump failure is rare, I’ve delt with a similar case and the diagnosis check was to check the oil pressure warning circuit was operating correctly. I.e did you STOP light come on and the car was driven on?
That’s probably going to be your argument or theirs that the oil pump failure wouldn’t have destroyed the engine if stopped in time.

Dont know where the GM came from, some stupid type from my phone. Its a VW dealer. Im waiting to hear back from some Customer Service type from VW to find out there argument as to why they believe its acceptable, should be an interesting conversation. To be honest, im not sure whether what part has failed really matters – the dealer, and VW, both agree the engine is shafted and needs replacing. The full service history is present and correct. The only discrepancy is the matter of who should pay for it. A 4 year old engine suffering any failure that requires it needing total replacement is not, in my admittedly biased opinion, adequate or satisfactory. A car engine should last 10 years minimum if looked after – it was, exactly to the requirements of VW themselves. Ah well, we’ll see what happens.

Is there such thing as motor industry ombudsman we can go to to put our case forward?

Motor industry ombudsman

Just for clarification purposes (I know you have been asked if its a full service history)

Who has done the services?
The VW network
A garage using OEM parts

You are asking for goodwill here. Goodwill is in fact based on you investing in the dealer group by having your servicing carried out there and ‘pissing into the pot’

If you have had it serviced outside the VW network but as per the servicing requirements and using VW parts then you of course have your manufacturers warrenty. But that has long since expired.

If you have been investing in the dealer network by having your servicing carried out there then I wouldn’t bother talking to the dealer anymore, I would get the customer services number and make that call to detail your displeasure.

If the vehicle is not running anymore and is taxed I would suggest you are going to park it outside your nearest dealership with a big sign saying VW wont last more than 4yrs without a new engine 🙂

I Internet-know someone who had a similar problem with a Touran, and by taking it to a different VW dealer from the one that initially refused to replace it themselves, she got a much better result. Stick to your guns.

Dealer said “not a chance” so I rang VW UK and talked to them instead

Good point that – have you spoken to VW yourself or are you taking the dealers word for it that they (the dealers) would be happy to replace FOC, but it’s those VW UK guys that are the problem? The dealer could be lying to you and has not even spoken to VW – worth making a phone call?

Dealer said “not a chance” so I rang VW UK and talked to them instead
Good point that – have you spoken to VW yourself or are you taking the dealers word for it that they (the dealers) would be happy to replace FOC, but it’s those VW UK guys that are the problem? The dealer could be lying to you and has not even spoken to VW – worth making a phone call?

I’ve had similar situations with certain bike shops, would definitely go direct.

FWIW even if you didn’t top up the oil, they may well give you the benefit of the doubt – these things rarely go pop and they want to have a good reputation. The benefit of replacing the engine is probably more valuable to them than the cost of an engine.

I think that is the default position of most car companies when contacted for this sort of thing.

As suggested above, try VW UK and see if you can push them. My guess is if you start to push hard enough, they will offer to contribute a percentage. The harder you push, the greater the percentage. Good luck.

One of my colleagues had exactly the same thing happen to her Polo last year. Similar age, slightly higher mileage. VW weren’t interested.
She ended up selling it to a local garage to use as a car for their apprentice to fix up over time for practice.

She then went and bought another brand new Polo…

Which 1.2 engine is it? There are known issues with :
Piston Rings
Valves
Oil pump Chains

Do some research with the engine code – all VW engines have a short engine code

just a random google example example http://www.ldsengineering.co.uk/storepage2799183.aspx

You could raise the game by sending a Letter Before Action to the dealer who sold you the car. It is the first step down the legal route and makes it clear that they just can’t fob you off. I’ve got £3k back before from writing a single letter…

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/going-to-court/going-to-court/taking-court-action/step-one-write-a-letter-before-action/

tomcrow99 – Member

One of my colleagues had exactly the same thing happen to her Polo last year. Similar age, slightly higher mileage. VW weren’t interested.
She ended up selling it to a local garage to use as a car for their apprentice to fix up over time for practice.

She then went and bought another brand new Polo…
Your colleague is therefore an idiot.

like the parking the tanks on their lawn idea.
Bit early for a twitter war but it can raise the ante a bit.

I still recall there was a big Citroen – think CX Pallas or similar – parked beside the A9 outside Ballinluig (where the House of Bruar warehouses are now) with a massive sign to the effect “Citroen UK fix this car”.. I presume / assume that had the desired effect..

Your colleague is therefore an idiot.

Or a genius.

I bet there isn’t a single instance ever of someone having two consecutive VW polo engine failures after 4 years 🙂

The odds are on her side.

Sadly, VW offer a 2 year unlimited mileage warranty on their new cars, which extends to 3 years if you stay below 60k miles so you’re just out of that (you can pay extra for another 2 years) so you’re in the realms of ‘good will’ now.

You can argue all you like about what you expect them to do (and 55k miles it woefully short of what you’d expect) but it’s more than VW promised it would do.

By all means contact VW directly, but I’d take a stance based on that rather than go in all guns blazing about SOGA or CRA.

How did it go? was there any engine or oil warning lights? It seems odd that the pump could fail without giving a warning on the dash, or it would destroy itself so quickly?

If the worse comes to the worse, it’ll be worth trying another garage, if the bearings have gone, but the pistons are still intact it shouldn’t be impossible to repair / recon the bottom end.

Just to clarify full main dealer history serviced with 4(?) main dealer stamps?

If 2 stamps (not Inc the inspection one) you couldn’t expect vw UK to help

Also when you saw/heard the engine noise or light (Inc a flickering oil light) did you stop immediately and not limp it home?

I found main dealer h.o will help out if fill main – I used the angle ‘reasonable to expect a young car serviced loyally should not fail terminally etc)

I don’t see why you should expect the dealer to cough up.

Of course, it SHOULD have lasted, but you can’t guarantee that it will. Anything can fail at any time. It’s the probability of failure that’s the question.

There is a very similar scenario being played out on the T5 and VWCaliforniaclub forums at the moment. Some 2010/2011 year Transporters with the 2.0 180bhp BiTurbo engines are experiencing very high oil consumption due to the cylinder bore being worn at around 50k miles. VW are saying replace engine for £7k and no good will.
One guy has had his van signwritten with the sorry scenario (some debate if its photoshopped though).

VW are well known built to last high quality vehicles though. They regularly go to 250,000 miles ..

Surely that guy ^^^ just needs to recommend not buying that particular engine?

VW are well known built to last high quality vehicles though. They regularly go to 250,000 miles

And just like any manufacturer they occasionally have problems with
some products.

Because they are a massive volume company – including the VAG brands there are quite a few duds.

It would not be fair to list their problem engines in the last 10 years
without listing the other manufacturers duds ,
but there are plenty of them out there and whilst the brand may have a rock(y)solid image it is possible to get expensively caught out if you rely on the image and not facts.

(I own one of the duds and just put up with the very high oil consumption because the vehicle covers so few miles each year and is basically a banger)

sounds oh so familliar…

my vw golf 1.4 also suffered high bore wear – ok so it managed80k before it started showing signs but it went rapidly….before total failure at 88k

wish id thought of the signwriting/….. wont buy another.