Is that enough to power a DeLorean?

…and most of the whinging on here seems to come from south of the border.

You clearly have very selective reading, then.

I invite you to provide evidence….

South of the border Druid – defo not! This is not a Jock bashing thread, it's more to do with the state of the Union, which frankly isn't great!

Captain you've just mentioned the car of my dreams – built in Northern Ireland.

tankslapper, if a DeLorean is the car of your dreams, you need help! Dreadful things. Utterly dreadful.

There's one in Machynlleth though, which I always find amusing!

druidh – Member

I invite you to provide evidence….

Yup – evidence. The whinging ain't coming from up here.

If you think the union is in a sate now then wait a couple of years. Tories in Westminster = independence for Scotland in a decade. SNP are on course to get a majority next time and Cameron knows his best chance of keeping labour out is to get rid of their 50 scots MPs

Amazingly, there's one of those awful Lincoln Stationwagon things (Beige/brown and about the size of a football pitch) in Blaenau Ffestiniog. I have no idea how it got there as the roads clearly aren't wide enough for it to fit!

I invite you to provide evidence….

Have a look for yourself, it won't take you long…

South of the border…. North of the Border…. face it people we're all one homogenous steaming pile of humanity, like it or not. Well except for the tankslappers of this world, and thats because they run all newcomers off…. In fact thinking about it I'm surprised they've not all mutated over there what with all the interbreeding and all.

Where did you say you are from G? Norfolk?

I rest my case m'laud….

zokes – Member

…and most of the whinging on here seems to come from south of the border.

You clearly have very selective reading, then.

druidh – Member

I invite you to provide evidence….

I think this could be labeled as a series of unfortunate events. The UK has been sniffing around Libya and its energy reserves for a few years now, as being on the end of a very long Russian pipeline is not ideal. Some may say that all the pictures of various members of the Government being seen with the Libyan leadership is evidence that a deal was done, possibly, but when you consider that virtually every other country would do the same and a fair few have already, then its nothing more than cheap political points scoring. What would the opposition party in this country do if it was in the same position?

I honestly don't believe that Whitehall had a say in the release, as its the SNP we are talking about.

If you think the union is in a sate now then wait a couple of years. Tories in Westminster = independence for Scotland in a decade.

I don't think so. This is a two fingered salute by the SNP to those south of the border and further afield demonstrating how independent they are, leading to a complete lack of diplomacy, I think will actually backfire for the SNP come the next election as an awful lot of Scots see this as an embarrassment.

They were a protest vote anyway.

el bent – the SNP vote was largely not a protest vote. Most scots seem to think it a good move anyway from what I can see.

I think it is a genuine compassionate move and nothing to do with sticking two fingers up to those down south – although an opportunity t do so is always welcome in the SNP house.

I very much doubt it will backfire on them and I think you can be farily sure that the next Holyrood parliament will have an SNP majority

As far as Scotland being supported by England goes, I reckon it's BS, but like many Scots I would be happy to live on less to be rid of the carbuncle on our southern border 🙂

Let's face it, the UK is an irrelevance now. It was doomed from the moment we entered WW1. The Irish know it, the Welsh know it, and the Scots know it.

Once the English grasp it and become independent, each country of the ex UK will get an appropriate government instead of trying to be a major player on the world stage with the associated defence etc costs. We can all prosper then.

Like it or like it not we are all far better of as one mass than a bunch of independent nations. Populations in everywhere else outside England do not lend themselves to being self supporting (as unfortunate as that may be) North Sea Oil and Water that SNP seem to be forever bleating about are frankly red herrings

Doing anything to get rid of the carbuncle that is England is all fine and dandy if you all want to paint half your faces blue and live in mud and stone huts. As EEC cash goes forever east its going to be increasingly difficult for Scotland and remote Scottish communities in the Highlands and Islands to tap into extra resources. A good example of this is the Republic of Ireland who have enjoyed years as the Celtic Tiger. Now forgive me the exact amounts but pumping £xbillion a week into any economy will make it look pretty decent. The problem now is that since Ireland is increasingly having to stand on it's own two feet the Celtic Tiger looks pretty tame.

Scottish Independence shored up by the Act of Union is a better solution. Very hard to be independent on bread and water.

Let's face it, the UK is an irrelevance now. It was doomed from the moment we entered WW1

Well in 5 years time it will have been a 100 years since the start of WW1 ……. not so bad for a 'doomed' entity then.

Once the English grasp it and become independent, each country of the ex UK will get an appropriate government instead of trying to be a major player on the world stage with the associated defence etc costs. We can all prosper then.

Even the Welsh?

No Ian – thanks to climate change the Welsh are rubbing there hands as their high quality Ministers are now saying it will boost the tourist trade in Rhyl!

So that's Wales as the tourist destination of the U.K. Sunshine in Bleanau Ffestiniog and as many sheep as you could ever want

Utopia with wool and Wellingtons!! 😆

Tankslapper. So Denmark, Norway, and similar European countries are not viable entities? How about Iceland or Finland?

All countries of similar sizes to Scotland and with similar geographical positions. all independent and flourishing.

Isn't Iceland bankrupt?

The argument for scotland being a net contributor or reciever depends on what you count as scottish money.

If you asusmed a devolved Scotland would inherit the rights to all the North Sea Oil then yes, its rich. If you assume its British and just comes ashore in Scotland then the flow of cash is very much one way form England to Scotland. So if devolution happened tomorow and Scotland go the sole rights to the oil, it would have about 20 years of free university, better schools, NHS etc before it became completely and uttery bancrupt.

Thanks thisisnotaspoon – more reasons.

That Scotland could stand on its own two feet with North Sea Oil for a little while is not in doubt what is in doubt is its ability t sustain this. Scottish independence is a fine and noble notion but its a notion nonetheless.

United we stand divided we fall – U.K. O.K. in my book

(Case dismissed due to lack of evidence from MacBeth)

Iceland has struggled in the credit crunch for sure. However it is still a viable independent country as is Norway,

The oil is clearly Scotlands in international law. Most of the gas is Englands.

I still hear no reason why an independent Scotland could is not viable as an independent country when there are many small counties on the periphery of Europe that manage quite well.

If you asusmed a devolved Scotland would inherit the rights to all the North Sea Oil

working in the industry I can say that the majority, although not all, of the UKs oil and gas reserves would come under the control of a Scottish government.

So if devolution happened tomorow and Scotland go the sole rights to the oil, it would have about 20 years of free university, better schools, NHS etc before it became completely and uttery bancrupt.

Without proper financial planning and management of those resources to build up the economy in other area, yes. That's common problem for all governments though and was an issue for the UK as a whole in the '70s and '80s when the revenue from North Sea oil was used to prop up the country whilst other industries were built up and supported.

Isn't there an agreement in place somewhere that grants the oil to Scotland and the Gas to England in the event of a dissolution of the Union?

"So Denmark, Norway, and similar European countries are not viable entities? How about Iceland or Finland?

All countries of similar sizes to Scotland and with similar geographical positions. all independent and flourishing.
"

"Isn't Iceland bankrupt? "

Excellent !.

TJ, you are sooooo full of sh1t, the things you post just go to show that you believe the rest of us are so stupid, you can convince us that what you selectively post is correct.

Do you realise just how insulting your posts are ?.

Step back from the keyboard and go back to stroking your framed picture of Gordon.

CC.

i bet the buckfast tonic wine import deficit figures are not included in tj's figures

the uk will grant scotland its independence, the day the last drop of oil is squeezed from the north sea

and quite frankly there isnt very much left

which is why we are 'regime changing' or sucking up to nasty countries with lots of oil

Captain crash = pot kettle black.

I rarely resort to personal insults unlike the frankly ignorant and offensive posting you like to indulge in.

Iceland is not bankrupt. Its as well if not better off than the UK. Although like the UK has had serious problems with the credit crunch It has flourished as a tiny independent country for decades with a higher standard of living than the UK and higher lifespan.

I still hear no reason why an independent Scotland could is not viable as an independent country when there are many small counties on the periphery of Europe that manage quite well.

No reason at all, but whether things would move for the better or to the worse is a much broader point. In respect of the viability of incomes and so forth, the SNP argument is based on taking in pretty much all revenues that may apply, regardless of whether they will in fact, and choosing which shares of mutally incurred debts and other ongoing obligations that they will take into account.

Personally, the sooner we get past all this nationalistic jingosim the better IMHO. While the rest of the world is globalising we're going the other way. Brilliant strategy and obviously we are right and everyone else is wrong?

What next? Independance for Millwall?

give it up you lot, you sound like a family arguing over nothing.

mt

What sort of family is that? The Jackson 5?

So you're calling Scotland 'nothing'!!!!!

You think this lot are bad?
http://www.arrse.co.uk/Forums/viewtopic/t=131714/postdays=0/postorder=asc/start=0.html

While the rest of the world is globalising we're going the other way. Brilliant strategy and obviously we are right and everyone else is wrong?

What does "globalising" even mean in this context? That countries are merging together?? Is it even a word?

An independent Scotland would still be part of the EU and so would not be "isolated" (even though that hasn't harmed Norway) – which seems to be a good route for smaller countries…..

It's amazing the amount of casual anti-Scottish sentiment that's appeared over the past few years and the ill-informed, patronising nonsense from some posters on this thread is the perfect illustration. It's a real reverse from when I was growing up when it was the other way. There seems to be a real insecurity appearing amongst a section of English people that used to be the preserve of the Scottish and Welsh IMO.

Mr Slapper – reading the childish remark you have made confirms my view that you do not understand the country you live in if, all you can do is squabble over petty issues. "oh thats mine cos i bought it, thats yous coz your poor. or i'm better than you because……." whatever.

Did I mention a particular country of the UK?

What does "globalising" even mean in this context

What it means, is that whilst the rest of the world is opening up to the concept that there is stuff that goes on beyond their national borders, that "we" seem to be doing the opposite and becoming more insular instead. For example, the next thing that will crop up is Celtic language, which clearly is something of huge significance to the average modern Scot, given that the vast majority have done absolutely sod all about learning it, or for that matter campaigning for it to be taught in schools. So much like the Welsh, off we'll go into a nationalistic binge to reinvigorate what is essentially a dead language, instead of doing the sensible thing of equipping our nation for the global challenges that lie before it, where learning something like Spanish, French, Russian, Latin, German, Mandarin Chinese, in fact just about anything other than Celtic would be vastly more beneficial.

Incidentally, I would be entitled to dual nationality, as indeed would the vast majority of the inhabitants of both countries.

mt

You omitted that I frankly don't care. As a citizen of a small sheep producing nation on the edge of Europe it really doesn't seem to matter if I have an opinion on the subject or not. Hence the flippant remark!

Lighten up – it's only a forum 😉

http://www.boycottscotland.co.uk/

What sort of family is that? The Jackson 5?

Isn't that the Jackson 4?

I think it is a genuine compassionate move

What utter bollox. MacAskill went to see Meghrani who then promptly dropped his appeal. Broon just "happened" to be on holiday. mandy just "happened" to be in hospital. Compassion my ar5e.
It was either fear that the appeal would uncover some of the evidence not heard first time round, deeply embarrasing the US as much as anyone else, or we (Scots) know our oil is running and we have plenty expertise in exploiting oil fields but no oil fields left to exploit. Or a bit of both. But anyone claiming this was a compassionate release really needs their head looked at.

G – a couple of points you miss. Reinvigorating gaelic is a very low priority in Scotland – unlike in wales welsh is spoke widely.

One of the arguments for a independent Scotland is independence within europe – this is at least in part because Scotland wants to be more involved in the EU – not semidetached in the little englander way. Its at least in part about strengthening Scotlands ties with Europe.

Many other European states are undergoing similar devolution / independence debates. Myself I look forward to a more integrated and devolved EU. Devolve power down where possible and pool where needed. This actually virtually does away with the need for the larger national governments. If the EU looks after macro economic policy and defense and all else is devolved to a regional / small nation level the westmisnster becomes irrelevant.

Other european states looking at splitting or devolving. Belgium – seems a split into two is inevitable. Netherlands has a splittist movement ( but rather weak) it is 6 provinces after all. Italy – many would like to split north and south. Germany – Bavaria is virtually a county in a confederation anyway and wouldn't mind independence. Then there is the basque country. I think in 50 yrs there will be a federal settlement in Europe with about 60 smaller states pooling resources where needed and taking their own decisions where they can. I look forward to it.

Scottish independence is not about being insular and inward looking. Its about looking outward with confidence and making its own way in the wider world without the help and handicaps of being the small ignored partner in the UK