[Closed] So the British Government

lets see what documentation gets published prior to the holyrood debate next wednesday.

Then we [i]might[/i] see who's being cheeky.

the Act of Union has been dissolved?!

No, wake up and pay attention Slapper ...... we now have "devolution" which involves "devolved" power.

HTH

So there is regional Assembly Governments with limited real powers, yet here we have Von Brun and Herr Mandelson not making any comment on a decision made supposedly by Scotland - so that's it then, the Act of Union has been dissolved?! Notwithstanding that Mandy met with Gadaffi Duck's son on several occasions recently prior to the release of the cheese collector?!!

Being bit of a drama queen wouldn't you say?

Total lack of understanding shown by the OP as to the constitutional settlement and he lost the argument before it started by references to the PM as a nazi. godwins law.

FWIW the scottish parliament ( not a regional assembly but a national parliament) has clearly defined devolved powers. These include the legal system in its entirety which Westminster cannot interfere with.

I'd love to know what all those bars are for!
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Mandleson dining with Gaddafi Jr on Corfu as well....whole thing stinks.

Hands up who thinks there hasnt been a deal and Scotland acted solely in this one?

IMO major deals going on with Brown/Blair interference.

Yep, i think that this one is SNPs own mess.

they missed the chance of finding a halfway house of something like secure house arrest under medical care IN scotland, and perhaps accomodation for a few members of his family.

I cant belive that MacAskill couldnt find some leeway in the "Scottish Justice system" (whichever arcane hole of it applies) to keep him on Scottish soil to keep the Yanks happy and prevent the frankly predictable behaviour of the Libiyans in Tripoli.

Even if he pushed the legal limits, Megrahni would be dead before an appeal or finding could have been handed down.

Tandem - I guess the exception proves the rule?

Apologies - I was comparing Scotland to the Welsh and Northern Irish Assemblies who have limited powers and who can not be allowed to make such a stupendous arse of themselves!

I think ernie this will really test devolution. Oh, btw where does Scotland get it's funding from?

No deal whatsoever IMO. I think Mandy wanted one hence the reciprocal arrangements he sorted out for prisoner transfers - but he forgot its not a UK parliament decision but a Holyrood one.

Do you really think the SNP would do anything to help Labour? When labour have been totally unco operative with them - stopping the removal of council tax by legalistic machinations over the councils grantt, etc etc.

So there is regional Assembly Governments with limited real powers

Actually there aren't. They are being replaced by associations of local councils.

On the wider issue, presuambly all those you think it is a terrible conspiracy between govt and business will be boycotting any company who does business with Libya? No more buying petrol from BP, for example.

Oh, btw where does Scotland get it's funding from?

Here we go....!

Is it too early for a beer? I think not. Nothing Scotchish, though, I'm afraid!

Scotlands funding - - self funding infact supports England as all the figures show. An independent Scotland would be richer and England impoverished

Sorry CFH - I shouldn't have bitten

It just so happens all these 'English' politicians are meeting the Libiyans and then the release goes ahead. Come on.

I'd love to know what all those bars are for!

And I want to know why Gaddafi is still a colonel ? Surely it would be polite to make him general ? Can't he pull any strings ffs ?

.

sv - are you suggesting that the SNP are New Labour's poodle ?

Isn't the difficulty that, while Holyrood has clear constitutional responsibility for Scottish legal/justice matters, this could be realistically characterized as "foreign affairs", an area in which Holyrood does not have any power.

I may be wrong, but if memory serves the Scots got him because Libya wouldn't hand him over to the Americans in the first place, and it was negotiated between the British government and Libya.

TandemJeremy - Member
Scotlands funding - - self funding infact supports England as all the figures show. An independent Scotland would be richer and England impoverished

I'm not going to redo the argument its been had before on this forum, but that is utter tosh, and entirely selective, selecting the revenue to include in and the costs to leave out, as you well know TJ.

it was negotiated between the British government and Libya.

IIRC, the 'deal' was that he would be tried under Scottish law.

G - sorry old chap - its the truth - total moneys spent v total revenue - scotland is a net contributor to the UK budget. Its westminster who have fiddled the figures

That's right. But as the decision to release on compassionate grounds involves an exercise of executive discretion and has clear "foreign affairs" ramifications I'm a little sceptical that no-one in Scotland ran it past someone in Whitehall.

Mandleson...

Hmm wonder what he really is dealing on the table.

TJ, take it elsewhere, there's a potentially interesting discussion going on. 😉

there's a potentially interesting discussion going on

can we only talk about one thing at a time ?

I really doubt any deal was done - either implicit or explicit.

The SNP will use anything to get advantage over labour and will not co operate over things like this - remember the furore when the prisoner exchange treaty between Libya and Uk was done? The Scottish Govenrmnet pointed out that the relearse of Megrahi was a decision for the Scottish justice minister only.

London Labour have been so antagonistic to the SNP government and so obstructive that I just can't see them doing what London Labour want at all.

Not a chance that the SNP " ran it past someone in whitehall" - totally against their philosophy to do so. Self determination for the people of Scotland remember?

BD - quite right - its been done to death. I just cannot let it lie when someone claims I know that what I am saying is wrong when infact I am sure it is right

I'm a little sceptical that no-one in Scotland ran it past someone in Whitehall.

They did :

[i]" MacAskill was in contact with the foreign office minister Ivan Lewis over the prisoner transfer agreement. London was also given early notice of MacAskill's decision. This was to allow Downing Street and the foreign office to advise the Libyan authorities on how to handle the return of Megrahi."[/i]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/aug/24/megrahi-release-questions

Megrahi's release by all accounts, was standard procedure under Scottish law ie : prisoners expected to live no more than 3 months, are released to die at home [i]whatever their crimes were[/i]

I'd love to know what all those bars are for!

Probably the same as Prince Charles's.

Probably the same as Prince Charles's.

Surely not ?

Charles's medals include : the Queen's Coronation medal, Queen's Silver Jubilee medal, Queen's Golden Jubilee medal, Canadian forces decoration, and the NZ commemorative medal. I can't imagine Colonel Gaddafi having any of those 😕

I must say it wasn't until I researched the subject, that I realised just how brave Prince Charles is 😯

fortunately, GG, none of those medals require bravery as part of their criteria. Phew.

Im surprised your research didnt manage to unearth that 🙂

The SNP maybe think they have the power but lets face it in the overall scheme of things they are but a small player. The overall scheme being 200-300 dead innocent PamAm/Locerbie residents vs gas/oil supply relationship with Libya, America/Britain relations (ok so some are shouting about the release). Brown/Blair/Mandy shady dealing, dinners etc. Iraq/Afganistan wars over gas/oil.

Is it too obvious Whitehall have had a hand in this? You are going to say there are WMD out there In Iraq next!!!

sv

Sense at last. Whilst SNP play at being a self-supporting State-let the truth is they have given succour to international terrorism and further questions the Union.

Blair, Mandelson, Brown and Salmond are phoney

Stoner - Member

Yep, i think that this one is SNPs own mess.

they missed the chance of finding a halfway house of something like secure house arrest under medical care IN scotland, and perhaps accomodation for a few members of his family.

MacAskill informed us that , on information supplied by the Police Authorties, a total of 48 police would be required to look after Megrahi in some sort of private house. To what benefit exactly?

I fail to see any "mess".

G - sorry old chap - its the truth - total moneys spent v total revenue - scotland is a net contributor to the UK budget

And when the oil runs out?

How come you're up there milking the affluent scots then, TJ? Surely you're costing the country you seem to care for a lot more by being there than over the border...

zokes - Member

G - sorry old chap - its the truth - total moneys spent v total revenue - scotland is a net contributor to the UK budget

And when the oil runs out?

Never fear. We'll still be here to meet your energy demands.

[url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable_energy_in_Scotland ][i]"The production of renewable energy in Scotland is an issue that has come to the fore in technical, economic, and political terms during the opening years of the 21st century.[1] The natural resource base for renewables is extraordinary by European, and even global standards. In addition to an existing installed capacity[a] of 1.3 Gigawatts (GW) of hydro-electric schemes, Scotland has an estimated potential of 36.5 GW of wind and 7.5 GW of tidal power, 25% of the estimated total capacity for the European Union and up to 14 GW of wave power potential, 10% of EU capacity.[2][3] The renewable electricity generating capacity may be 60 GW or more, considerably greater than the existing capacity from all Scottish fuel sources of 10.3 GW.[2][4]"[/i]
[/url]

And just wait until the UK-wide water grid is installed....

Never fear. We'll still be here to meet your energy demands.

And we'll still be here to pay for your unemployment benefit, healthcare and deep fried chewits.

And don't forget the banking sector..

IanMunro - Member
And don't forget the banking sector..

Ah yes, we'll pay to bail out your banks as well. Thanks for that.

TandemJeremy - Member
G - sorry old chap - its the truth - total moneys spent v total revenue - scotland is a net contributor to the UK budget. Its westminster who have fiddled the figures

Like I said selective stats, basically choosing which bits to add in and which to leave out. Wish I could balance my books like that. Not that it matters of course, as it is merely tilting at windmills, as obviously it'll never get tested in reality.

Deep fried Chewits = PMSL for some considerable time. 😆

Oh I love how some people treat wikipedia like it's gospel. The proposed Severn barrage would generate an estimated 7 GW alone. Your total 7.5 GW tidal power doesn't look so great now.

Frankly I couldn't care less. Let the scots be independent - it'll be one less source of whining, and you can take Broon back with you.

I was being conservative...

[i]"Professor Stephen Salter of Edinburgh University says he believes the (Pentland) Firth could produce as much as 10-20 gigawatts (GW) of electricity"[/i]

...and most of the whinging on here seems to come from south of the border. In fact, I can't recall the last time I read an anti-English post on STW (other than the TJ backlash)

Is that enough to power a DeLorean?

...and most of the whinging on here seems to come from south of the border.

You clearly have very selective reading, then.

I invite you to provide evidence....

South of the border Druid - defo not! This is not a Jock bashing thread, it's more to do with the state of the Union, which frankly isn't great!

Captain you've just mentioned the car of my dreams - built in Northern Ireland.

tankslapper, if a DeLorean is the car of your dreams, you need help! Dreadful things. Utterly dreadful.

There's one in Machynlleth though, which I always find amusing!