... if the current crop of Colonels are considering a takeover?
Chat Forum
So, Greece. I wonder...
-
Posted 7 months ago #
-
And why do you wonder that ?
The Greek government is compliantly carrying out the wishes of the IMF and EU.
They are shafting the Greek people with brutal IMF/EU imposed austerity measures.
The government is bending over backwards to satisfy the needs of wealthy bankers.
I can't for the life of me figure out why any self-respecting right-wing colonel would want to step in and stop them.
Posted 7 months ago # -
* slowly backs out of thread on the realisation that this is not an enquiry about where to head for some
austerecheap October sunPosted 7 months ago # -
What strikes me as bizarre about the whole situation is that if you had a company with the turnover of Greece, they'd just declare themselves bankrupt, and a new company would rise from the ashes, (probably with some suspiciously similiar owners and called Greace, or Greece Holdings) or another company would buy the profitable parts and the debt would be binned. Either that, or they'd be declared too important to fail, and bailed out without any real controls on how they act afterwards.
But since it's a country, apparently that's not possible, and instead it's The Shaft for everyone who just happens to live and work there.
Posted 7 months ago # -
Omg that's so true! And Fekkin shockin really.
Posted 7 months ago # -
Joanna Lumley is there at the moment as a special envoy mun...I just saw it on the tellybocs
She'll soon sort things out...once she gets that Avengers style leather catsuit back on again and hot blooded latin types are going to do anything she tells them to do.
FFS
Posted 7 months ago # -
hot blooded latin types
You're getting mixed up, that's the Romans.
Posted 7 months ago # -
pmsl
Posted 7 months ago # -
slowly backs out of thread on the realisation that this is not an enquiry about where to head for some austere cheap October sun
I'm in Corfu at the moment, we saw some people standing around in a lacklustre fashion by some banners in town, the guy who used to stand at the side of the runnway with an Uzi seemed to be off duty, and the nice Giant full sussers that were stood outside the hotel when we arrived have been replaced with halfords specials. But no, to the sun starved brit it's pretty much business as usual.
(I wouldn't go to Athens any more than I'd go to London though)
Posted 7 months ago # -
Can someone explain to me why Germany etc have not let Greece go bankrupt and drop out the euro and either pay the money back over a long period or just wipe the debt? The majority of greek people would be better without the euro, although I have read they avoid tax more than the Irish! Some of the scenes look similar to the Arab uprisings!
Posted 7 months ago # -
I think it's just a matter of when Greece leaves the Euro - the austerity measures will just kill off their economy completely, so at some point the people will have had enough and force a change of tack.
Posted 7 months ago # -
They are shafting the Greek people
with brutal IMF/EU imposed austerity measures.By making them live within their meansFTFY
Posted 7 months ago # -
we saw some people standing around in a lacklustre fashion by some banners in town
That'll be the entire Greek civil service
Posted 7 months ago # -
Zulu-Eleven - Member
They are shafting the Greek people with brutal IMF/EU imposed austerity measures. By making them live within their means
FTFY
Stopping all credit is not a solution, economies need to grow, economies need credit. But I understand what you're saying. There must be a little more to it than that too as the UK is still running on credit and everything is just hunky dory here.
Posted 7 months ago # -
Zulu-Eleven - Member
FTFY
Never mind fixing what I say - I know what say and mean. How about instead, you explain why you think throwing people about of work and/or slashing their purchasing power somehow helps an economy to boom and allows debt to be paid off ?
'Cause up 'til now it hasn't helped. In fact, it's made things far worse. Unsurprisingly.
Maybe if I get myself into debt I should chuck my job in to save a few bob on travelling costs ? Or how about selling off my tools - would that do it ?
BTW Zulu-Eleven what do you think about your party leader having to rewrite his speech to the party conference the other day - because of a gaffe in which he was going to tell people to pay off their credit cards ?
David Cameron rewrites conference speech after credit card gaffe
Quote :
"The Institute for Public Policy Research think-tank said that if consumers took the PM at his word, the UK economy would be ''in real trouble'', shrinking significantly over the years to come."
So tell me Zulu-Eleven what is it, should we during these difficult times be paying off our debts and 'living within our means', as you suggest, or not - as your leader now seems to think ?
Maybe you could put your party leader right ?
Posted 7 months ago # -
I wonder which countrie(s) in the EU lots of the Greek workers will move to?
Posted 7 months ago # -
for sake of argument.. lets understand that the greeks are having to put up with
a the retirement age ( the latest age) you can retire at is 65 though once you have 40 yrs work you can still claim a full state pension
b all public service roles are for life for ever
c the vat in restaurants at the mo is 13% for most other stuff its 5.5% some stuff is as high as 19%
d its sunny all the **** time
e more tourists visit blackpool than greecetell em i 'm not bothered I want my money back..
Posted 7 months ago # -
totalshell - Member
b all public service roles are for life for ever
Considering that one of the austerity measures includes public sector job cuts exceeding recruitment freezes, and another is that 30000 civil servants have been suspended on half pay purely to cut costs, I have to wonder how accurate the rest of your comments are
And even then, they're a tiny part of the bigger picture- that has to offset against pay cuts, pension cuts, 16% unemployment- over double the UK.
Posted 7 months ago # -
the civil service recriutment freezes are.. recruitment is being reduced to between only 10 - 20% of retirees are being replced
30k civil service staff are been suspended on 60% of pay for no more than one year.
all the health service cuts amount to is not paying the previous govt regulated prices for drugs but buying them on the open market
all pensioners under 55 who recieve more than £1000 amonth will have any amount over £1000 cut by 40%.. ouch!
the current income tax threshold of 12k will be reduced over time to 8k.. thats still higher than it will be in the uk next yearso far though not one austerity measure has been implemeted in full or even started on time.
Posted 7 months ago # -
I have to wonder how accurate the rest of your comments are
His comment on VAT rates in Greece is false - the Greeks have a higher VAT rate than us. I'm not sure what the purpose of his false claim is - anyone who knows how to Google can find out that VAT in Greece is 23%, and anyone who follows current affairs knows EU rules state that 15% is the minimum VAT that a member country can charge, so his claim of 5.5% on "most stuff" is clearly false. Maybe he's making a funny joke which I don't understand ?
Posted 7 months ago # -
News from Greece: The government has suspended all production of taramasalata and hummus.
Yes, it's a double-dip recession...
Posted 7 months ago # -
ernie... just as an aside, I think you'll find that we have a reduced 5% rate of VAT on some stuff too.
So while maybe the headline VAT rate needs to be at least 15%, there are reduced rates, as well as zero-rated bits too!
Posted 7 months ago # -
Yes funkynick I'm aware that some items are zero VAT rated, I made that point 2 days ago when totalshell made the same false claim concerning 5.5% VAT in Greece on another thread :
http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/greeks-they-ve-never-had-it-so-good#post-3076649
His claim that VAT is charged at 5.5% on 'most stuff' is false. I have no idea why he keeps making it.
Posted 7 months ago # -
I can confirm that you now tend to be given receipts when you buy stuff in Greece
Posted 7 months ago # -
totalshell - Member
30k civil service staff are been suspended on 60% of pay for no more than one year.
Oh well that's alright then, I'm sure nobody'll have any bother getting by on 60% of their normal salary if it's only for a year.
Posted 7 months ago # -
Greece will default and our savings via our Banks will take a massive bath but its happened before in Russia (1998??), Argentina in the 1990s and they all survive. I think the issue is the banks and their guarantors; i.e. their governments not wanting to take the bath but it seems fairly obvious that Greece cant trade its way out of this debt.
No one should have any doubt that this is as much the Greeks' fault for borrowing too much (and fiddling their accounts to help them do so)as it is the banks for lending too much. Both as bad as each other and whilst the Greeks will suffer the most we will all suffer too.
Posted 7 months ago # -
i like a little accuracy in my hysteria so vat starts at 5.5% in greece most hot food takeaways restaurants etc is 13% 195 is charged on luxury goods only. these are all set to rise 'by' 2012
i for one wouldnt mind been on 60% of pay to stay at home for a year considring the travel and other expences that work involves i suspect the 330 days of sun will be handy
the issue is that greeks are having a lff, making promises / commitments they havent yet made and cant afford to frankly and yet thier pensions are bigger and earlier and taxes less than we pay and yet we along with the other eu nations are having to guarentte the debts
all figures are easily checked and freely available at the FT/ bbc/cnn should you wish
Posted 7 months ago # -
i like a little accuracy in my hysteria so vat starts at 5.5% in greece most hot food takeaways restaurants etc is 13% 195 is charged on luxury goods only. these are all set to rise 'by' 2012
So now VAT in Greece just "starts" at 5.5% ? Further up the thread you claimed that VAT for 'most stuff' was 5.5%. Which is kinda strange for someone who likes a little accuracy in his hysteria.
And yes I know there are special categories for VAT, here in the UK we have some goods which are zero rated, but our standard rate is 20%.
So anyway, what is it that your now saying - it's kinda difficult to know........that VAT on most goods is 13% ?
If so, not everyone seems to agree with you :
"The Greek government has announced plans to reschedule food and soft drinks purchases from the reduced, 13% VAT rate to the standard 23% rate. This change will come into effect on 1 September 2011.
This moves comes as part of a range of austerity measures designed to help unlock the latest round of bail out funding from the EU, ECB and IMF."
Greece increases reduced VAT in austerity measures
So according to those alleged VAT experts, the existing standard rate is 23%. Which falls into line with EU rules that no standard VAT rate can be less than 15%, and therefore makes it rather believable.
And btw, why do you keep going banging on about takeaways and restaurants ? It's as if that's what most people pay VAT on. I rarely use takeaways and restaurants but I'm pretty sure that I regularly pay VAT.
Posted 7 months ago # -
So, Greece. I wonder..... if the current crop of Colonels are considering a takeover?
As Harold Wilson once said, a week is a long time in politics.
Greece crisis deepens: Military chiefs sacked after shock call for referendum
Looks like the Greek government might have got a bit nervous about the military.
It's one thing to do what the IMF/EU tells you to do, but when you start bringing this "democracy" stuff into the equation, and there's a real risk people won't vote "correctly", then its a whole new ballgame.
Maybe a good call after all Woppit, though perhaps a tad premature.
Posted 6 months ago # -
You have to feel for the Greek on the street. They could lose all their savings and be impoverished for decades and because of some $hitty government. I know they exist on cash and are not renown foir hard work but even so. Mainly they will be victims.
Posted 6 months ago # -
Posted 6 months ago #
-
Maybe a good call after all Woppit, though perhaps a tad premature.
Or not...
Posted 6 months ago # -
http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/international/papandreou-attempts-the-short-grift-201111024492/
GEORGE Papandreou may be trying to con Europe with the short grift, experts have claimed.
It should really have a funky soundtrack and a cameo part for Elliot Gould
As the Greek prime minister 'convinced' his cabinet to back a referendum on a massive bailout, experts said the move was quite clearly designed to scam even more money from the European Union.Julian Cook, chief scamologist at Donnelly-McPartlin, said: "It's textbook stuff. You join a single currency and then borrow a sum of money so huge that it endangers the entire system.
"The other countries offer to bail you out because if they don't then everyone is ruined, but then you wait until the last possible minute and ask for more cash or 'you'll have to have a referendum'.
"The other countries know they can't let you have the referendum unless you're definitely going to vote 'yes' and so they pony up with the dough.
"Meanwhile, those dumb saps at the Daily Telegraph unwittingly help you along by saying it's 'a great day for democracy'. Beautiful."
Nathan Muir, a retired bunco artist, said: "It's called the Albuquerque Two-Step. Old Mickey Five-Knees used it all the time back in the Forties.
"I wouldn't be surprised if the whole country's in on it.
"I'll tell you what though, this Papandreou guy has got some serious hustle. Between the two of us we could clean up, maybe pick a small town and then go door to door selling shares in a free-range haggis farm."
He added: "I love the fact the Greeks fired all their top generals at the same time, making everyone think the country is on the brink of a violent military coup.
"It's the sort of wit and panache that you used to see in this game all the time. These days it's all just payment protection insurance and homeopathy."Posted 6 months ago # -
but when you start bringing this "democracy" stuff into the equation, and there's a real risk people won't vote "correctly"
The EU have some serious form for sending the offending electorate to the naughty step until they come back and vote the right way!
Can't see that ruse working this time, mind
Posted 6 months ago # -
Or not...
Well it's difficult to know what their motives are since they haven't given any explanation for the sackings of the military chiefs, or who their replacements are.
But it's possible that rather than concern about a likely military takeover in the event of a 'no vote', the government might be more motivated by a desire to have PASOK sympathetic military chiefs should the need ever occur for the army be used against the people.
Also it should be remembered that when the last military takeover occurred it was led by middle ranking officers, eg colonels, they tend to be more uppity than high ranking generals who are more likely to be loyal to the status quo. And for that reason I suspect that the government's motivation is less likely to be due to concern of a possible coup - they haven't acted against middle ranking officers.
Of course it has been suggested that the move is purely to sow fear into the Greek people that if they vote no in a referendum, there was a risk of a military takeover, so they best vote yes. Creating a climate of fear by darkly suggesting they are worried about a coup will help them achieve this. When the Greek military previously ruled Greece they held many referendums which they won by creating a climate of fear, so it's a strategy which has proved to have worked in the past.
The call for a referendum is a shrewd move by PASOK, I'm sure that there are ulterior motives behind it. It puts the opposition Conservatives in an impossible position, do they tell the people to vote in support of the government, or do they tell them to vote against the austerity measures ?
One of the great ironies of all this is that despite all the crap we are told suggesting the Greek crises is due to the fact that Greeks are all lazy and overpaid, it is actually massive, and completely unjustified, military expenditure by the previous Conservative government which has played a major role in shafting Greece.
Greece under the Conservatives spent far more of its GDP on defence that the EU average. And far more than most other comparable countries anywhere in the world which aren't at war. But of course you never get to hear of that.
Posted 6 months ago #
Reply »
You must log in to post.
