Serious question (oh god here we go). Sitting on the throne this morning I was wondering if there is a more eco alternative to flushing paper down the loo?

Bidet?

The paper itself is pretty eco if it’s recycled. Finding a use for recycled materials is actually pretty handy. Not sure about the processing at the other end. You could put it in a bucket and compost it I suppose.

myti funny isn’t it how this has only recently become public knowledge and your compost will thank you for switching.

I only drink loose tea and my family for decades have been using Sainsbury’s Red Label which is “Fairly Traded”. It’s not as strong as, say, Yorkshire, but does have flavour and it’s a lot cheaper.

https://www.sainsburys.co.uk/shop/gb/groceries/loose-tea/sainsburys-red-label-loose-tea-250g

Scroll down for explanation of “Fairly Traded”

https://www.about.sainsburys.co.uk/~/media/Files/S/Sainsburys/documents/making-a-difference/sainsburys-sourcing-with-integrity-kpis.pdf

DavidB if only although I believe there’s a loo that “sprays” your bottom with water.

I’ll be retiring soon 😆
http://www.dupontteijinfilms.com/
Speaking to our scientist the biggest issue for us using recycled plastics is EU regulations governing what can be used in foodstuff packaging(lots of other regs apparently)
Traded in our diesel 4×4 for a smaller petrol car.
Been biking to work for 40yrs so can’t change that.
MrsT has health problems so as much as she would like to adopt lots of the suggestions above it’s not physically possible. Mobility problems, low immune system and skin problems all mean she has to be very careful on what products she uses and food she eats. Travelling to work is “only” 6mls, 15mins by car or 2 buses and 45mins, an option she cannot use due to above issues.
We use bus and train if and when possible.
Can only afford 1 flying holiday, our kids(grandkids)cannot afford holidays away from home so they are pretty “green”
I’m off the the dump now to recycle my paper and booze bottles……
Then I’m going to make some tubs to plant some bulbs using the wood from our house renovations….

How do bottles get into the sea someone asked? Don’t know about your area but the roadside debris around here is diabolical!!!! Thrown out of cars/lorries it hits the roadside, then washed/blown into ditches/burns/becks to then be washed into rivers that lead to our seashores………….

Already quite committed to a big reduction in our carbon footprint.

Have solar panels , Nissan Leaf Electric car and a Tesla Powerwall 2 battery which stores the energy from the panels for later use.

Apart from the environmental impact of using the EV car, it is proving to be an almost cost free running cost vs petrol or diesel.

The Tesla battery was bought and installed as we won’t be buying another ICE car again.

My car spends most of its life sitting outside the house, I guess it averages about 5k/year.
My job, on the other hand, is a logistics driver moving cars around, and I do roughly 1500 miles a week! Still, it’s someone else’s car, and someone else’s fuel, so it doesn’t bother me… 😈
Did look into getting solar panels fitted, with a storage battery, but the shape of the roof meant so few panels could be fitted it wasn’t economically feasible to get it done.
Now, if Tesla solar tiles become available and I could get them fitted for free I’d jump at the chance, but I’m just scraping by financially, it’s impossible for me to pay for anything like that myself.

@DavidB – loo paper made without trees:

https://uk.whogivesacrap.org/

Currently feeling that I should be doing more especially with plastic bags, many are used for batch cooking and one alternative is the glass storage containers with plastic lids.  Cost is an issue although TX Maxx are selling them but also storage.  Should I use foil instead?

Home-made cleaning products are going well, have added loo cleaner and hard floor cleaner.  Next to make will be shower gel and hand sanitiser.

Small steps.

Car trips only when absolutely necessary.  Do most (90%) of grocery/bits and bobs shopping by bike.  This is also selfish as I generally ❤️  cycling and generally dislike driving.

Very impressive MalvernRider and really driving is not a pleasant chore these days.

one alternative is the glass storage containers with plastic lids

is this a BPA (also in plastic food bags!)/BPS issue?

this would seem ideal: https://www.clasohlson.com/uk/Coline%20Glass%20Food%20Container/Pr441898001

shame they’re out of stock, I paid more than that for my (BPA free) plastic lunch boxes!

I think a lot is to do with cars.  Not so much vehicles themselves, but the way in which our distribution and life patterns are based around road traffic.  E.g. where you live, supermarkets as opposed to small shops, cold chain distribution etc.  Much of the “bad stuff” is associated with this IMO.

We’re fortunate to have 3 shops locally that offer re-fills of some sort (grains, Ecover & Bio-D liquids etc), plus two greengrocers and a butcher.  That’s pretty unusual these days, though, unless you live in a city like we do.  We can offset the slightly higher purchase costs against the lack of driving we do.

We’ve made some modest changes recently, including: bulk buying liquid soap for refills around the house, soap bars for bath / shower, using a clingfilm replacement (beeswax-lined parchment) and going to 100% refills for washing liquids.   We’ve always been pretty eco-conscious, but have tended to the easier changes.

The biggest single use plastics in our household are things like yoghurt, houmous and milk.  We have always had doorstep milk deliveries, but at £0.92 a pint it’s pretty expensive and so we get a big 4-6 pint plastic bottle every week too.  It’s time to look at this again.

All my life I’ve used a milkman so never noticed the milk prices. However 92 pence per pint does sound a lot. Our milkman charges 73 pence per pint. Could you shop around for another milkman?

Organic milk 🙂

@zilog6128 – yes indeed, how do you find them?  I think in TX Maxx they were around £5 but can’t remember the size.

@Ben_H – goodness, that’s quite a selection of local shops!  Can I ask where you bought your liquid soap refills from, also very interested in how you find the beeswax lined parchment and presumably it doesn’t actually touch food?  Thanks.

I see this has resurrected on the back i think of the dishwasher thread. reading with interest, and i already do some of this myself.

However, here’s the evil scientist coming along to wee on your chips (not really). Coconut oil isn’t that great due to the transportation; swap that out for one of the others olive / sunflower. Might not be as ‘creamy’ but it’ll wash your hands the same.

His recipe is 190g water
Lye-KOH 90% pure 108g
Castor oil 100g
Coconut oil 100g
Olive oil 200g

Sunflower oil 100g

And do me a favour and get some litmus strips, don’t just rely on the recipe. If your KOH is a bit lower in purity / higher in moisture, your oils will be part unsaponified which is no great shakes;  but if it is a bit higher in activity and/or the oils are a bit low in SAP Index then you could have unreacted KOH in your mix which is not at all good for skin and disastrous if you were to get in your eyes (very corrosive)  Get some litmus paper and check it’s neutral to slightly acidic (skin is naturally around pH 5.5) and if your mix is slightly on the alkaline side, add in some vinegar dropwise to bring it down.

And I’ll refrain at this point from making any comment that in an industrial setting all the Raw Materials will be qc’ed in advance, the process will be highly controlled based on the quality envelope of the RM’s, and the end product has to be signed off by a qualified authorized person. Alternatively anyone with an idea and an internet connection can load up a recipe, send people off to Amazon / the supermarket to buy the ingredients and then spread it all over their skin.

Conceptually, I love what you’re doing and support your right to do it; just make sure the execution is good please.

oh, and first one to say ‘well you would say that, you work for the chemical companies’ gets a big organic punch in the face 😉

The biggest single use plastics in our household are things like yoghurt, houmous and milk.

They’re reasonably easy to recycle, no?

Our kerbside collection only takes plastic bottles (PET 1 and HDPE 2 only) so that’s the milk bottles sorted, but [humble brag alert] I collect all the other plastics (Muller rice pots are type PP for example) in an old kitchen bin in the garage and get great satisfaction emptying it when full at the plastics container at the council tip. Word on the street is that our council will start taking all plastics at the kerbside collection this summer which will bring them in to the 20th century lol.

Used to get milk delivered, but the diesel transit van woke up my neighbours!

@cinnamon_girl
<div class=”bbp-author-role”> Liquid soap refill</div>
<div></div>
<div>Bees wax wrapper – one of many</div>

@theotherjonv – is your recipe for liquid soap as opposed to hand sanitizer?  I’m keen to go on a soap making course rather than attempt this myself, bit nervous about lye to be honest and would feel safer being supervised.  Do make my own foaming hand soap though, takes 2 minutes.  I shall save your recipe and am reassured by your credentials!

Completely get what you’re saying and despite using some recipes from the internet I do select my sources carefully, the comments can be very helpful as well as offputting..  This is my go-to book, unable to post image:

https://wordery.com/fresh-clean-home-wendy-graham-9781911595106?cTrk=ODU3MDY1OTJ8NWFiMTJiYWNiMDc5NToxOjE6NWFiMTJiYTIyNjU5OTUuOTUzNTcyODI6ZDJlZmU0MTE%3D

http://www.moralfibres.co.uk/

I’ll be washing up by hand rather than using a dish washer 🤲🏻

My Aldi tea bags break down in our compost heap, maybe they don’t use plastic???

For me?  NO kids and no car no pets.  those are the biggest things you can do.  Once  year or two short haul flights is my main environmental sin – that an an energy inefficient flat ( but its much better than it was)

<div class=”bbp-reply-content”>

oh, and first one to say ‘well you would say that, you work for the chemical companies’ gets a big organic punch in the face

</div>

Ah ha – the enemy within 😉  got your number now

@CG;

no, that’s a repaste of the recipe that Myti’s Dad gave you on P1.

The ‘recipe’ is fine per se, you’re just neutralising various oils (which in actuality are fatty acids) with alkali (KOH in this case); it’s how ‘soap’ was ‘invented’, when caveman dripped animal fats onto soda ash from his cooking fire and found the residue was good for cleaning stuff (may be an oversimplification but the reaction’s basically the same).

My reservation is that particularly when using uncontrolled sources – by that i mean you have no real idea of the activity of the material. In layman’s terms and particularly as it’s a natural ingredient itself consisting of several different chemicals, you don’t really know for example how acidic the oil is, etc.  In industrial terms the ‘acidity (so called SAP index) would be carefully controlled by titration and certified before it was approved for use, etc.  Simply following a recipe might not have the constituents in quite the right balance, and as i say a slight deficit in the alkali and the soap will have some unreacted oil, but the other way round and KOH can get quite corrosive quite fast.

So feel free to crack on, but i suggest some litmus paper just to make sure you are on the slightly acidic side of neutral would be a worthwhile investment.

Typing that also just reminded me of the last time i got properly angry at social media activists / bloggers over this stuff.

It was a stupid woman (sorry) who’d got baby shampoo in her kid’s eyes, and the kid had screamed blue murder as they all do. Eyes were rubbed, they got sore, and the woman decided she’d check the bottle. She found the INCI* list on the back and saw that it ‘contained’ hydrochloric acid. Which as any fule kno is extremely corrosive, and ‘clearly’ was what had caused the problem (it wasn’t it’s what we routinely use because it’s way cheaper and more effective than using vinegar to bring the pH down)

So immediately she posted it on Facebook, all her friends reposted – ‘I can’t believe Product X contains hydrochloric acid! Disgusting, it should be banned / everyone boycott it immediately / I’m going to sue the manufacturer’ and before long it’s trending. Someone (not me, I’m not that stupid!) does the honest thing and says ‘er, it’s only there in a tiny amount, and in fact it won’t be there at all because it’s only there to react with the left over alkali to adjust the pH of the product down to match baby’s skin pH so it’s nice and soothing’ and of course gets all the ‘well you would say that’ responses.

I hope she did sue them, and i hope the judge and expert witnesses laughed her all the way to the bank to pick up their costs. (not really, but you get my point that someone with an opinion and an internet connection can be poison to an extremely regulated industry!)

* Inventory of Cosmetic Ingredients – it’s an approved list of materials that can be used in personal care formulations and every product has to list them on the package (or in some cases on a product card if the pack is too small – I digress)

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B018GIA0CK/ref=asc_df_B018GIA0CK50998154/?tag=googshopuk-21&creative=22146&creativeASIN=B018GIA0CK&linkCode=df0&hvadid=218100548040&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=2631634231526971622&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1006717&hvtargid=pla-421096184042

(but be prepared for it to arrive in a massive f’off cardboard box 😉 )

I’m going to continue to move away from meat. For intents and purposes I’m pescatarian at the moment and love fish.

I’d like to cut down on dairy but have yet to find an acceptable replacement for natural plain yoghurt (suggestions welcome).

I’m also going to try and cut down on plastic but buying veg in the supermarket seems to come with lots of plastic bags. I don’t use the loose ones they give you, but things like Vittoria tomatoes and blueberries all come in plastic.

Like a few here I’ve been trying to cut down on waste in general, specifically plastics.

Best thing so far has been going back to having a milkman deliver three times a week, slightly more expensive than the supermarket but less waste and more convenient.

The surprising thing is that the majority of the rubbish I throw out is single use plastic packaging etc despite trying to avoid it.

Thanks ben_h for those suppliers.

Sorry theotherjonv, I didn’t realise.  Understand what you’re saying and it does make me nervous, may stick to making liquid soap with castile and it’s certainly a lot easier and quicker.  I don’t think anybody is wanting chemicals banned per se but, as you’ve pointed out, it comes down to understanding what the ingredients are and what they can do.

I’m only following simple recipes, just don’t have the energy to be spending hours on my feet.  Do sometimes feel like a hoarder with the amount of plastic and glass containers I’m accumulating but they’re getting repurposed.  For example, the loo cleaner I made (included xanthan gum, glycerine, vinegar) is in a washing up liquid bottle.  All properly labelled of course.

@mikey74 – there’s dairy-free yoghurts in Tesco and Sainsbo, in the free-from aisle.  Tried a coconut one which was rather nice.

Idle musing about plastic bags – no reason why mesh laundry bags couldn’t be used when buying fruit and veg.  Sorry, unable to show pic but here’s the link:

http://www.lakeland.co.uk/23587/4-White-Mesh-Net-Washing-Bags—Various-Sizes

One of the independent cafe’s in our area is allowing you to take in your own water bottle for free tap water. Also 20 pence off any take out hot drinks, when you take your own flask or mug.

On gardener’s world, Monty Don was using loo roll holders instead of plastic trays/plant pots for growing seeds and young plants.

Everybody that does something to stop the tide of plastic, is making it less cool and unacceptable to be walking round with plastic bottles of water and takeaway cups of hot drinks.

Well done to your local cafe Bunnyhop and hope that customers appreciate its eco credentials by using that facility.

Completely agree with your last paragraph but don’t know whether some folk just tune out or genuinely don’t give a stuff.

This could be interesting (if you could actually fathom the rather shoddy website)

https://www.earthhour.org

I think the idea is not to use any electricity for an hour, but it also says you could host a gig, which kind of defeats the object. Go for a night ride might be best for us lot. Get the lights charged before 8:30 though..  🙂

OK, that just comes across as a gesture rather than a commitment to making changes.  It’s not a movement as such.  Sorry, rather cynical!

@mikey74 – there’s dairy-free yoghurts in Tesco and Sainsbo, in the free-from aisle.  Tried a coconut one which was rather nice.

Thanks, but I’ve tried many of them: They generally taste pretty bad and have added sugar. I like the Coyo stuff but it’s stupidly expensive and very calorific.

I’ve also stopped buying and using the foam style wiping and cleaning cloths.

Bits were coming off them and getting into the water course. I now use the old fashioned white coloured knitted style dish cloths, which are wrapped in a piece of paper when you buy them.

Just need to find something that isn’t sponge or plastic to wash up with. Any ideas please?

Recently bought one of these

http://guppyfriend.com/en/

Helps to reduce the amount of microfibers going down the plug hole.

Only buy bars of soap as opposed to showergel etc. I wish someone at the toothpaste manufacturers would make more responsible packaging. Buying a significantly less amount of plastic packaged food.

Lefty propaganda planet saving review

I’ll be continuing to ride to work, injuries permitting, and even if I reconcile with the wife I’ll try and keep taking the kids to school/nursery by bike once a week (it totally does not fit in with my job, but it means I can see them a night in the week and she can have a night off in the week).

I’ll be encouraging her to take kids by bike/walk too (although there are reasonably valid reasons she uses the car currently).

I might even try out public transport for getting to the climbing wall 10 miles away (if it’s just me I cycle, but not really practical with kid(s).).

I might get around to offsetting the carbon from my lifestyle (but probably won’t as I’ve been thinking of doing this for years).

mikey74 – perhaps make your own?  Plenty of folk are making kefir although it doesn’t appeal to everyone’s taste buds.

Bunnyhop that’s a very good point, why can’t you use that type of cloth for washing up but obviously keeping them separate?  Strongly recommend having a look around http://www.moralfibres.co.uk, in fact Wendy in a recent blog discussed bathroom products and linked to an eco, not plastic, shower puff.

surroundedbyhills yes, linked to those in a recent post where I suggested using them for fruit and veg when shopping.  Again Wendy at http://www.moralfibres.co.uk discusses bathroom products packaging.  Not easy to find soap that’s not wrapped in plastic!

philjunior – very impressive and what fun for kids to go to school by bike.

Blimey!  That Guppy bag costs £26!  It’s a bit of net curtain, do we know anyone handy with a sewing machine on here???!!!