My front rim on the winter bike had a hissy fit last night (CXP33). I’m now considering replacing them both, the amount it’s went out of true is quite spectacular for a single spoke failure which is one of the reasons I’m considering replacing ’em.

So, please recommend me a robust, winter proof 28h rim, I’m using discs so disc specific would be moar bettererest!

Looked at Grails and Archetypes so far but the Grails especially are very wide, not sure they’d be suitable using 23’s, I could be convinced into 25’s eventually but don’t see the need in anythin wider.

Cheers!

Mavic Open Pro.

OPs are too narrow these days.

Archetype will go tubeless easily, and are tough. Pacenti do the SL25 too.

25s or more are the way to go these days. More grip, roll better, more comfort.

Velocity A23 non-machined sidewall?

DT Swiss do a couple of nice disc road rims now. Can’t remember model numbers, but will be on their site. Wide enough but not as crazily wide as some from memory, about 17mm internal and 21mm external rings a bell so will still be ok with 23’s but designed to work best with 25’s I’d say.

How are Open Pros too narrow these days?

because wider tyres are faster and offer more grip and comfort, so the market has moved towards wider rims.

Shame, they’re really bloody good rims.

Open pro or try the new Hunt Wheelsets? I’ve ordered a pair they looked great at the cycle show.

Rims only, I’ve got a Dynamo hub on front which I won’t ever be getting rid of.

Cheers all.

I’d never considered DT Swiss for some reason!

Not too fussed about comfort, she’s a steel winter bike, I need to feel my suffering 😉

The New DT Swiss disc road rims are the R460 DB and the RR511 DB, both are 18 mm internal.

The 460 is designed as an inexpensive all rounder, pretty light but non eyeletted, the 511 is designed as a tough winter or CX rim with an aero profile and using DT’s pro head nipple and washer system, they are a bit heavier and more expensive but should be nearly bombproof.

Both are available in 28h

As it is a winter bike I am going to make the wild assumption that you will probably want to run 25 or 28 tyres.

I have 2 sets of road wheels 1 pair of open pros on hope hubs (run with 23c specialized armadillo all weather pro tyres) and the second pair is arch types on dt hubs (run with 25c continue gp4000 II’S). I prefer the arch types. I can’t say I notice I go any faster on either wheel set but the arch types just feel much nicer.

I think the nicer feeling comes from the tyre profile generated by the wider rim.

Part of the reason a single spoke failure is resulting in it being significantly out of true is using 28h rims, though even then I wouldn’t have thought a CXP33 would go to far off.

I’m on Sun Inferno 23s. At £30 and 460g they’re good value, but I’m not sure if they come in 28h. If you’re never going to go above 25mm then Open Pros are a decent choice: fairly light but with double eyelets, and the CD version is a decent looking rim for a disc wheel. They won’t be any better than CXP33s if your spokes fail, though. (But build the wheels well and that shouldn’t be an issue.)

reggiegasket – Member
because wider tyres are faster and offer more grip and comfort, so the market has moved towards wider rims.

f you’re never going to go above 25mm then Open Pros are a decent choice

It’s total crap that a narrow road rim won’t take a wide tyre.

Sure the profile may not be quite perfect but at these pressures deformation is not a problem.

Don’t believe the hype!

Wider might be better in some situations, but its not the be all and end all. And it’s not “faster” it’s reduced rolling resistance with some makes of tyres, other brands had more drag at larger widths. Add onto that the aero effect of a wide tyre, wide rims started off as a way to get closer to the tyre width, but riding 28mm or more tyres is obviously a lot more drag than some narrow 23mm tyres.

I’ve just built some Open Sport onto 5800 hubs, they’ll be shod with 32mm tyres for touring.

Looking again it seems most rims don’t have eyelets anymore, this leaves me feeling very meh.

It was the internal eyelet that failed, possible a mechanical defect but they all look corroded so maybe corrosion. It’s really quite spectacular how much of a wobble it’s got, caliper brakes would have been a full on nightmare! All the spokes still feel like they have good even tension, I’m def disappointed with them to be honest and can’t see me going for Open Pros.

I can’t see me ever using a 28, bike is plenty comfortable for big rides and I’m entirely unconvinced they’re faster. They wouldn’t fit under my guards either.

Think DT-Swiss are currently winning, need to check £€$ though. Grails seem far too wide, Archetypes have no eyelets.

Cheers again.

I can’t tell the difference between these new wider rims and old narrow ones either, especially at road pressures. I agree with the cynic-al up there, more bike industry hype!

If you’re never going to go above 25mm then Open Pros are a decent choice

I spent yesterday smashing round a very rocky “CX” course on 2.0 Race Kings on Open Pros. Absolutely fine.

28c rather than 25c, not a significant difference, really?

Hmmm, those R460’s from DT Swiss are £35 SRP, think we have a winner!

I only mentioned “if you’re not going to go over 25s” because the OP specifically mentioned it and someone else pooh-poohed narrow tyres. I’ve used up to 42mm road tyres on Open Pros with no problem, so I’m not suggesting they won’t go wider. But I think for disc brakes and wider tyres than about 28mm these days then something slightly wider would be my preference. In this case an Open Pro is a decent choice. YMMV.

Take a look at hunt wheels.. I’ve got a set of there aero road wheels and I can’t fault them.

I’ve run 42mm tyres on openpro rims.intact I’ve not run smaller than 32mm on my cx openpro wheels

While the open pro works fine as a rim wider rims work better. They are stiffer for one improving spoke life on a well built wheel. 23mm tyres do fit fine on a stan’s grail or rim of similar width. They will come wide at 25mm or wider. They also gain some height.

I have 23mm vittoria open corsa’s on my 25mm wide rims. Measured with a vernier they are 25mm wide and taller. I have tried the same tyres on narrower rims and that what I have found. In fact also every tyre comes up wider on a wider rim. This is useful as it increases the air volume improve comfort and reducing buzz. Rolling resistance is meant to be lower but I can’t tell that as the difference is small in theory. Handling in the bends is definitely improved too due to the change in the tyre profile ( tyre is far more rounded and they don’t square of in the same way). Also on rough and broken road surface I loose less speed when jarred of that surface is on a bend I stay to my intended line better.

The ds Swiss rr440 rim is now available as a disc brake only rim. It really is a winner. I am trying to get kinlin xr22t offset rims in the country for disc brake use (nmsw). The pacenti sl25 is excellent and the velocity aileron is pricey but it is light and deep.

The hed belgium+ nmsw rim is very pricey but perfect.

Next year Ryde are bringing out the pulse comp disc. This is one in am waiting for. 21mm internal width 27mm external, light at 370g and has offset drilling. It may not for very heavy riders or loads but nothing else on the market comes close.

Kappius in the u.s supply disc only carbon rims.

A 28 spoke disc brake wheel with the open pro rim would be a flexible affair. Even front disc brake hubs are dished reducing bracing angles. Stiff rims are needed for disc brake builds. If some one asked me to do a 28 spoke disc brake build with the open pro I would refuse. I have done this before with customers who are insistent in what they want. There are some things that are simply not worth doing.

Built many wheels with the open pro and they are out. Keep but getting the wheel stable take alot of time. Building with a modern wide rim mean the stress reliving gets the wheel stable much quicker and I can be sure the wheel stays that way.

My new wheels are stans grails though they seem very good but disc only

bm0p700f – Member
While the open pro works fine as a rim wider rims work better. They are stiffer for one improving spoke life on a well built wheel.

It’s not just width that makes rims stiffer. These differences are tiny. It’s marketing guff that many intelligent people have bought into.

I have tried the same tyres on narrower rims and that what I have found. In fact also every tyre comes up wider on a wider rim. This is useful as it increases the air volume improve comfort and reducing buzz. Rolling resistance is meant to be lower but I can’t tell that as the difference is small in theory. Handling in the bends is definitely improved too due to the change in the tyre profile ( tyre is far more rounded and they don’t square of in the same way). Also on rough and broken road surface I loose less speed when jarred of that surface is on a bend I stay to my intended line better.

How have you measured this? Are you saying that the different tyre profile changes the contact patch?

A 28 spoke disc brake wheel with the open pro rim would be a flexible affair. Even front disc brake hubs are dished reducing bracing angles. Stiff rims are needed for disc brake builds. If some one asked me to do a 28 spoke disc brake build with the open pro I would refuse. I have done this before with customers who are insistent in what they want. There are some things that are simply not worth doing.

My 32H has held up fine on a rigid 29er.

Built many wheels with the open pro and they are out. Keep but getting the wheel stable take alot of time. Building with a modern wide rim mean the stress reliving gets the wheel stable much quicker and I can be sure the wheel stays that way.

Me too – albeit not recently – I have found them great.

My point is that if someone wants the benefits of wider tyres they don’t need wider rims (at road pressures).

Sadly too many people buy into the marketing and theories put forward by “experts” and they then become “fact”. A 2mm wider rim is going to add say…1mm to a tyre? It’s just not significant in comparison to a wider tyre (which is of course much much cheaper). The aero argument is irrelevant for 99% here too.

But in our consumer world we we want reasons to have the perfect rims/tyre/bike, and we are given it.

Oh right, so Open Pro then after all 😀

Sadly too many people buy into the marketing and theories put forward by “experts” and they then become “fact”. A 2mm wider rim is going to add say…1mm to a tyre? It’s just not significant in comparison to a wider tyre (which is of course much much cheaper).

Well, unless you’re at the point where you’re replacing your rims and keeping your tyres, in which case the reverse is true 😉

Small differences are all pretty marginal, naturally. But I’m not sure I’d agree as to how much the phrase “at road pressures” nullifies things. If you’re way off the sweet spot then a few psi make no real difference, and the same goes for a couple of millimeteres on the rim; but there comes a point where the pressure is well suited to the road surface’s irregularities, and at that point a few psi can be significant. Equally there’s a point at which a tyre starts feeling unstable when cornering, and a few psi around that point a few psi or a couple of mm can be significant. I never really got on with 28s in years gone by because by the time I put in enough pressure to keep them stable on narrow rims, they felt harder than 23s or 25s, which defied the point of having them. Maybe I’ve adapted a little since then, but with wider rims I’ve got one bike running 37s with decent comfort and no significant instability. So I disagree with the suggestion that you just sticking a wider tyre on the same rim is always the answer: it might be in some case, but it depends where you’re starting from.

YMMV, obvs, but I certainly buy into the notion that rim width, tyre width and tyre pressure are tightly inter-related and should be considered as a whole, both off-road and on. Whether one particular adjustment given a certain status quo gives a real difference or a princess-and-the-pea difference is another matter, but if the status quo is close to the sweet spot I think the effects of a small change are worthy of consideration.

I’ve been running 32H Open Pro laced to a XT disc hub for 6 years swopping between Spec Armadillos and Vittoria Rubinos/Paves – at a gentle estimate I’ve put 23K km on them in all weathers (I’ve not included the distance towing the kids and popping to the pub either), I have had to replace 6 spokes on the rear (laced to an Alfine hub) over the years and I’m ~100kg running on a mix of rubbish county lanes and town streets.

When the spokes have gone I’ve been able to get home each time with only a slight “taco” in the wheel.

So as a per the OP request – Open Pro appear to be pretty much bombproof when laced to XT hubs.

As for the ride…. Lovely on the Pave (folding & 28c?), ok on the rubino (wired and 23c) and dead on the Armadillos (23c)

I ran Open Pros with 28mm tyres for years, and they were fine.

Looked at Grails and Archetypes so far but the Grails especially are very wide, not sure they’d be suitable using 23’s, I could be convinced into 25’s eventually but don’t see the need in anythin wider.

I have Grails on my Mason, running 25mm Conti GP 4 season clinchers. I’m happy with the rims – they seem strong and stiff, but great care is needed fitting clincher tyres as it’s very easy to pinch the tube. They also make an alarming cracking sound as you inflate them.

Bear in mind that some brands of clincher come up big (Michelin Pro 4 25mm for example are actually 28mm on a wide rim) so frame clearance can be an issue. I’ll be going tubeless as soon as the new Schwalbe pro one tyres are available.

Open Pros here. And CXP33’s too. I’m surprised they were so far out with a single spoke loss. same profile as older Ksyriums.

Tyre brand seems to make a bigger difference than rim width, as not at 25c’s a re created equal. FWIW, Mavic tyres are bang on for profile on Mavic rims (23c on Open Pro for example). Schwalbe 25C Ones are a good fit on

And yes, I have two sets of wider rimmed (Giant aero) wheels for the race bike too. There isn’t really any difference.

Haven’t read all the replies but my winter bike has Ambrosio Excellence rims on it. Must be coming 10 years old now so probably due a renewal but they’ve been faultless.