[Closed] RIP: Howard Marks

RIP Howard.

Gutted 🙁 what got him? He wasn't that old?

Bowel cancer...

70 and cancer.
[url= http://www.theguardian.com/books/2016/apr/11/howard-marks-obituary ]Guardian link[/url]

Saw him speak in Aberdeen years ago,he was brilliant. To this day, don't know if was staged, but halfway through there was a power cut and the lights went off for a minute or so. When they came on he's still in exactly the same place, and just says "did that happen to you as well?". Top guy.

Sad news. Proper geezer. Would have loved to have seen him talk...

Drug trafficking criminal who brought misery to thousands who had no regrets at how he made his money ruining the life of others

Who did his jail time and stopped dealing. Hence an excellent example of highlighting the potential successes of rehabilitation. Sage point Pawsy.

His involvement with the security services is interesting too...

Miserable Pawsy is miserable. Poor Pawsy.

Yup agree about rehab, but there is no escaping ones past. To emerge as some down to earth geezer seems to paper over the past and give him a veneer of acceptability.

Only dealt a bit of ganja didn't he?
He was hardly Manuel Noriega.

Drug trafficking criminal who brought misery to thousands who had no regrets at how he made his money ruining the life of others

I disagree with this statement. He smuggled and dealt only cannabis. He was very clear about that and refused to have involvement in other drugs.

OK I guess it depends where you stand on the issue of drugs overall but he was not a pusher, avoided - even condemned smack etc and did not IMO cause misery to others through his actions.

I find it odd that there is such condemnation of those involved in the Panama Papers affairs but such enthusiasm for an actual money laundering organised criminal that did business with genuinely terrible people in ****stan, Afghanistan, and the Phillippines - like, actual gangsters and warlords. He was also in the sex business in Thailand.

His book was, though, very well written and entertaining.

Matter of opinion on drugs, he was described as a major drug trafficker. Think we can assume it affected lots of people. There is an opinion that people like the Krays, Great train robbers etc become urban myths and their crimes are some how diminished. The victims are (always) often forgotten.

Drug trafficking criminal who brought misery to thousands who had no regrets at how he made his money ruining the life of others

This. But hey, he wrote a cool book, let's gloss over the reality.

actual money laundering organised criminal that did business with genuinely terrible people in ****stan, Afghanistan, and the Phillippines - like, actual gangsters and warlords. He was also in the sex business in Thailand.

This.

konabunny - Member
I find it odd that there is such condemnation of those involved in the Panama Papers affairs but such enthusiasm for an actual money laundering organised criminal that did business with genuinely terrible people in ****stan, Afghanistan, and the Phillippines - like, actual gangsters and warlords. He was also in the sex business in Thailand.

I'm going with this, but actually had to google him because I thought we were talking about Richard Marks the singer/songwriter..

But he was loveable rogue, the little scallywag.

Can't deny that (mind you, warlords are by no means terrible people in the context of afg and pak) but he will certainly have done business with the taliban, ISI and the CIA and it is documented to have dealt with the IRA and the mafia which is about as bad as it gets. I feel sorry for anyone who would have had to deal with that lot.

Let's not forget that the UK did lots of business with the mujahideen in Afghanistan when the Ruskies were there. They only became the 'bad guys' when the Ruskies left and the west went in.

ASFAIK Howard was dealing with them when they were the 'good guys'.............

I find it odd that there is such condemnation of those involved in the Panama Papers affairs but such enthusiasm for an actual money laundering organised criminal

Where did he hide his illegally gained money ?

Mr Nice is the only book* I've ever read in two days, and for that he was a good bloke. RIP Howard.

*proper book, not like the books I read to the kids before bed time, I've read loads of those over two days!!

Trimix: he hid it in onshore and offshore bank accounts in false names. He laundered money through onshore and offshore companies. He also says he buried a bag of money in Switzerland and dug it up years later - but I think that was an embellishment either to protect whoever really held onto it or just for entertainment vakue

But then he got caught (probably because he didn't have the right family connections) & did time and then made an honest career.

Trimix - Member

Where did he hide his illegally gained money ?

Lots and lots of C2W bikes.

I met him backstage after I crashed his dressing room during one of his speaking tours
A genuinely warm and affectionate geezer who believed in what he was doing, with intelligence and wit to rival Stephen Fry..
He found genius methods to undermine the establishment and bring a much sought after product to the masses, making a mockery of daft elitist prohibition laws and eventually paying dearly for providing such a service..
I'm not at all surprised at his money laundering activities as he did not identify himself with, as a human being, the laws made to protect the assets of the wealthy..

One of the good guys in a world strangled by oppression

I thought this thread was referring to Howard of Take That.

😳

As you were.

"Matter of opinion on drugs, he was described as a major drug trafficker. Think we can assume it affected lots of people. There is an opinion that people like the Krays, Great train robbers etc become urban myths and their crimes are some how diminished. The victims are (always) often forgotten."

I think there's some truth in that. Although it could be argued that Marks was criminalised by a society that outlaws some drugs in favour of others, for the economic benefit of a select few. Marks has certainly been an excellent publicist for his own 'brand'. I dare say he made a few quid from touring and giving talks to wide-eyed acolytes. He had a story to sell, and it seemed everyone was buying. People love a rogue.

But he didn't act alone, and had associates ranging from terrorist organisations, to British aristocracy. I suspect the fact he seemed to get off with much lighter sentences than his 'major drug trafficker' persona would normally expect, suggests he had quite a few powerful connections. I bet quite a few people in high places are breathing a sigh of relief now he's silent forever.

As for the drugs bit; alcohol is by far the most dangerous drug in our society, and it's legal and it's consumption even positively encouraged. It's all about politics. Our entire financial system is fuelled by Cocaine. There is more Heroin on the streets of the UK than ever before, due to war in Afghanistan. And modern, UK produced 'Skunk' is far more powerful than the hash and weed Marks etc used to smuggle.

There are far worse people than Howard Marks ever was, and some of them are leaders of nations. Marks was a relatively little fish in a pond full of sharks.

suggests he had quite a few powerful connections

He was friends with Harold MacMillan's grandson......

I shall start to re-read Mr Nice tonight I think! Sad loss of a real character.

... who brought misery to thousands who had no regrets at how he made his money ruining the life of others

Replace ... with any multitude of 'stw acceptable' jobs, eg Brewer, Distiller, BAE engineer, O&G Engineer in Africa/South America, .... and nobody would bat a white knight's eyelid

A grade bs merchant from what I've heard.

A grade bs merchant from what I've heard

It struck me that a lot of Mr Nice was embellished. Pretty entertaining, though.

I thoroughly enjoyed his books but took none of it at face value. He was obviously very intelligent & was excellent at self-promotion so was able to build a brand/career out of what he [i]said[/i] he'd done.

He found genius methods to undermine the establishment and bring a much sought after product to the masses, making a mockery of daft elitist prohibition laws and eventually paying dearly for providing such a service.

I disagree with this statement. He smuggled and dealt only cannabis. He was very clear about that and refused to have involvement in other drugs.

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Lost me there, finbar.

What came across to me in his book was that his biggest mistake was flaunting his activities in front of the FBI.

I was recalling one of his anecdotes about getting high off reindeer pee (they eat magic mushrooms out in the tundra).

As for the drugs bit; alcohol is by far the most dangerous drug in our society, and it's legal and it's consumption even positively encouraged.

actual money laundering organised criminal that did business with genuinely terrible people in ****stan, Afghanistan, and the Phillippines - like, actual gangsters and warlords. He was also in the sex business in Thailand.

Unfortunately when the true extent and effect of his 'career' are looked at then it doesn't all sound so much of a laugh.

I guess he was probably an alright person for a drug dealer, though...

I do not for a second believe that having a pint is more dangerous than having a smoke of heroin, mainly because of the amount of people I know that have died of or due to the effects of heroin addiction and I know a lot more people that drink than I did people that took heroin.

Howard Marks was involved with cannabis, not heroin, they are quite different.

I was his web developer back in the day. RIP Howard.

Howard Marks was involved with cannabis, not heroin, they are quite different.

Finbar, Fly Agaric not 'magic mushrooms' but yes.

enfht - Member
Finbar, Fly Agaric not 'magic mushrooms' but yes.

No, but yes - brilliant!

^ Yep, apparently the peeled & dried red spotty cap can be dried out and [i]experimented[/i] with, from what i read online anyway 😉

Don't get me started on reindeer, they're worse than yakuza

Lower score in Scrabble too.

I really enjoyed 'Mr Nice'.
I also really wish prisoners would go back to weed instead of NPS. 😥

"I do not for a second believe that having a pint is more dangerous than having a smoke of heroin, mainly because of the amount of people I know that have died of or due to the effects of heroin addiction and I know a lot more people that drink than I did people that took heroin."

Alcohol is by far the biggest killer and socially destructive drug. Heroin is relatively safe in itself, if dosage is carefully controlled, and it's 'clean' ie no nasty impurities. What makes it dangerous, is the fact that it's illegality means some really nasty impure stuff is sold, cut with some far more physically dangerous substances. If Heroin was used in the way alcohol is, ie clean sources, controlled dosage etc, it would actually be far less harmful. Various studies have shown this.

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/39938704/ns/health-addictions/t/alcohol-more-dangerous-heroin-cocaine-study-finds/#.T1giM3lHM4k?ictd [master]=vid~4a74d9a4-55d1-48cb-ae46-21acab13baed&ictd[il726]=rlt~1460400984~land~2_4755_seo_1f9c6622887b9e999db4a548b140bf40

Alcohol is by far the biggest killer and socially destructive drug. Heroin is relatively safe in itself, if dosage is carefully controlled,

Alcohol is also safe if the dosage is controlled.

Death per user will be faaaar worse for heroin.

Tragic how a HM RIP thread can digress into heroin vs alcohol!

Back on topic, I'm sure Mr Hoffman has a comfy seat prepared for his new pal.

Ignoring the potentially enormous tax revenues from marijuana which in itself created a lucrative black market for trafficking is lunacy.

Was friends with Jake Marcusson as a kid. His dad Alan was Howard's first business partner. They were a bunch of stoners who got into a bit of buying and selling and through an intro to an Iranian diplomat suddenly got access to eye-wateringly large amounts of dope. Being daring and resourceful (both of which Howard was) they somehow got it into the country through Shannon airport in Limerick. The alleged IRA connection was the crazy Irish guy.who fixed Shannon airport. He probably wasn't IRA, but who knows. In that part of Ireland sympathies are pretty strong. Marks was more of a smuggler than a dealer. He only dealt in dope and was no more of a rogue than the likes of Walter Raleigh or other historical buccaneers. Whilst he certainly did business with both ****stanis and Afghans, he certainly didn't do business with the Taliban as they didn't exist at the time. Neither did ISIL/ISIS for that matter. The prohibition on Marijuana is as pointless and useless as the prohibition of alcohol in the US was. Howard supplied a need and did it with verve and humour. He was an entrepreneurial legend and his passing is a sad day indeed

Total legend, sorry to see him go

There's an almost certainly apocryphal story that the ever parochial Yorkshire Post in 1952, upon the death of King George, ran their front page with the headline "Former Duke of York Dead"

Among his many other exploits, Marks in his later years part owned a restaurant in Leeds. I was reminded of the above story when I received my daily email of local business news and learnt of his passing after clicking on [url= http://www.thebusinessdesk.com/yorkshire/news/733426-leeds-businessman-dies-following-cancer-diagnosis.html?news_section=2462&v=2 ]Leeds Businessman Dies Following Cancer Diagnosis[/url]

"Death per user will be faaaar worse for heroin."

A lot of this will be down to purity/contamination, unsafe situations/environments, and ignorance. Although Heroin is undoubtedly more dangerous if moderation isn't applied. But then, Paracetamol kills more people each year than any illegal drug. And Heroin (Diamorphine) is used in hospitals every single day, without any reported crisis or apparent major issue. In a hypothetical situation where alcohol and Heroin are both used with the same degree of quality, moderation and care, alcohol is actually the more destructive substance over time.

"Tragic how a HM RIP thread can digress into heroin vs alcohol!"

I think it's a good thing that this situation can be used to discuss issues. I'm sure Howard MArks would approve. Substitute Heroin for any other 'recreational' drug. The fact is, that drug use is a political issue, and Marks drew attention to this many times. There is no reason other than a political one, why alcohol is tolerated yet Cannabis etc remain illegal.

A lot of this will be down to purity/contamination, unsafe situations/environments, and ignorance.

Indeed we are lucky that we are used to alcohol being 'safe' because it IS regulated and controlled by the authorities. If we were buying booze of the same origins as street drugs, with no idea of purity or strength, people would be drinking methanol and all sorts - see the fuss fake vodka causes and what goes into it for example.

Imagine if it were the other way around, if opiates were legal and controlled and people were saying we should legalise booze, people would be using exactly the same arguments - but it's really dangerous, I've seen it kill people, you don't know how strong/pure it is, I've seen it make people blind, etc, etc...

Whilst he certainly did business with both ****stanis and Afghans, he certainly didn't do business with the Taliban as they didn't exist at the time.

He shovelled vast amounts of cash in bribes to government officials in ****stan and Afghanistan which contributed to those states' failure and a culture of gangsterism, patriarchy and generally uncool behaviour.

Marks' 'contribution' to the failure of those states is utterly insignificant compared to that made by vast global corporations etc. The only difference being, is that what they do is 'legal'.

Real sorry to hear that Howard Marks has passed away

Loved Mr Nice - a wonderful read by a very funny & witty man - lots of poetic justice - but i don't care

Gutted never to have seen one of his talks

Read his Last Pill & Testament late last year - another great yarn. Mostly made up i suspect - but good fun all the same

RIP Howard