Have just recently taken advantage of the "3 for 2" Ordnance Survey Explorer map offer (includes free P & P but ends 31st July).

Whilst browsing, I noticed that some tracks I have previously used (shown as permitted rights of way, ie with green dots) have now changed. Some are showing as "white roads" but without green dots.

Are you still with me? 😉

Does this mean that they are still public rights of way as they are a "white road" or are they not a public right of way as some "white roads" are not actually public rights of way? I am aware that permitted RoW's can have their status changed.

I'm confused 😳

Reckon it might be safest to take it up with the county council.

Anyone have any experience of this please? Thank you so much!

Do you have an example location at all?

If you give me the 6 figure grid ref, I'll have a look at the online mapping to compare – its probably an anomaly, green dots on explorer are used to show an "other route with public access" these are normally roads listed as being part of the public network on the councils list of streets, and as such are not listed on the definitive map of rights of way – you may find that you end up bouncing between two separate council departments, with neither of them accepting responsibility.

Zulu – there's a few of these! What is frustrating is that the definitive maps aren't available online. Will reply tomorrow. Thanks for your help.

just to clarify:

white road on map – does not denote any status, only indicated the physical presence of a road on the ground

"white road" – a commonly used title for an "unclassified county road" ie. not an A, B, C or D road, however still legally a road open to vehicular traffic and maintained by the county as part of the network of "roads maintainable at public expense" as recorded on the "list of streets" – often also called "green lanes" however this title also commonly includes Byways open to all traffic (BOAT) and indicated an unsealed road/lane with vehicular rights – even more complex as many byways do not carry rights for motor vehicles, "restricted byways" carry rights for non mechanically propelled vehicles (horse and cart, bikes etc)

ORPA – a route which the Ordnance survey has been informed by the local authority carries public rights, however the exact status of those rights is not entirely certain – this is because some local authorities do not believe that the existence of a route on the "list of streets" is determinate of the route carrying public vehicular rights (largely as they do not want to open up a load of new roads to 4WD'ers.

I'll try and dig out some case law references

Edited to add:

Definitive maps irrelevant when it comes to ORPA/List of streets, as its listed separately.

I'd be willing to bet that this is a case of the local authority now accepting that the route carries full vehicular rights, hence its shown as a road rather than an ORPA, however thats not really not very clear on maps, as they do not differentiate between public and private roads.

Whatch out for TRO's though on these ORPA/ white roads – mainly relate to vehicles rather than bikes.

OK, here's a Hampshire example:

Grid ref SU664255 ending at 569247 – on previous edition OS map shown as a yellow road (legend – ie road less than 4m wide). Now shown as white road (legend – other road, drive or track fenced or unfenced).

In fact, this is part of the South Downs Way.

Another Hampshire example:

SU344581 ending at 344569 – on previous edition this was a permissive track. Now shown as white road. Although a vehicle could potentially use this, a 4×4 would be more appropriate.

So … really my problem is that a few tracks which I have used for many years are now white roads so am unsure whether there is still permissive access. But presumably if there isn't, there will be a notice attached to a nearby tree.

Am I right in thinking that some white roads on maps could, in fact, be private land/driveways?

c_g – Worcestershire definitive maps are available online – one of the more useful things our council has done with my money! 🙂

Brilliant site, free and easy to print out from!
EDIT: Hants maps are online too

http://www.hants.gov.uk/rh/row/maps/
http://www.hants.gov.uk/rh/row/maps/1612.pdf

Stoner – thanks very much, must have been fairly recently that HCC did that. More time to be wasted by me 🙄

really my problem is that a few tracks which I have used for many years are now white roads so am unsure whether there is still permissive access

just continue to use them and assert your implied right :o)

yeah and practice fluttering my eyelashes 😉

no … wait … I do that anyway … by the trailside when I get a mechanical 🙄

yeah and practice fluttering my eyelashes

very cute :o)

SU344581 ending at 344569 – on previous edition this was a permissive track. Now shown as white road. Although a vehicle could potentially use this, a 4×4 would be more appropriate.

ORPA on Ordnance survey, not listed on Definitive map – Unclassified County Road (entirely in accordance with your comment about 4WD)

SU664255 ending at 569247

unclear without looking into it further, but on the established legal basis of once a highway always a highway (unless stopped up by a defined legal process) the fact that it was listed as a "yellow" road means its very, very unlikely to have been downgraded to that extent.

Am I right in thinking that some white roads on maps could, in fact, be private land/driveways?

Yes, absolutely – white road on a map means nothing legally, and does not indicate rights of access in any way.

So … really my problem is that a few tracks which I have used for many years are now white roads so am unsure whether there is still permissive access

No, you don't want permissive access – keep riding them in the belief that you are doing so as of right without permission, force or subterfuge, and after twenty years of use claim them as Restricted Byways, that way we all benefit!

CG: Your relevant highways authority will have the correct information. I always go up a road shown clearly as a yellow road on a lot of OS maps. In fact it was downgraded from a minor road to a Schedule 11 track for use by farm vehicles about 12-15 years ago. The maps haven't been changed!
About that time every authority tried to reduce the number of minor country roads, this one being one of three all going to the same place, so one went. It is still accessible to all. White Van Men have insisted on trying it, their GPS tells them too despite me telling them they'll never fit ( too narrow! ) and waaay too steep, but they try…..
It is entirely possible the classifications have changed, but you still have public access. As I found out, road classifications change but maps are often way out of date.
Get onto the respective highways authority!
cheers
Q

very cute :o)

Why … thank you 😉

Zulu – thank you for your input. Can I ask – do you work in Rights of Way within a County Council/Authority cos you seem very knowledgeable? I feel rather angry – it's only due to my having quite a good knowledge of Hampshire riding routes, otherwise I could be losing out on some great trails.

Christowkid – it's so frustrating isn't it? I almost feel that we are being cheated!

CG, ZUlu eleven is a chemist by trade I htink but has done lots of ROW work with IMBA in the past 🙂

Hi CG – Yes, NBT is almost right about my trade in my former incantation as Labrat 😉 however I've dropped that and am now a Bike trade flunkie…

it was helping out with IMBA that I learned a lot of it, the whole ROW law area is silly complex, with a huge amount of contradictory information.

Much as the PC side of me wants to quote official rules, I think that there's a lot of areas where the best advice is just ride and be damned – view it as your own personal little protest against Riduculous laws made up by townies and enjoy the spirit of the rebellion – if anyone argues with you, just sing them a little song

cg: Yes it's a right mess!
My hill got so bad it was dangerous, especially horses going down a stupidly steep hill, massive potholes everywhere and the surface breaking down into grit – so a tyre/hoof wrong and the grit on the remaining tarmac slid you out. A tourer I passed complained about it's state " cos it was marked as a 'normal' road on the map" and it prompted me to try and get it patched. They did to a certain extent, but then the Highways Officer returned from hols, explained the situation ( it had been downgraded ) and said it shouldn't have been patched!
I chatted to him a few times, and to be fair was a decent bloke and explained he situation about downgrading – but he said the decision was taken 12-15 years ago so why on earth haven't the maps been updated?
He agreed it was a mess too!!!!

If it's a specific road you use a lot then I would try and discuss it with the authority as said before and get a definitive view. 'My' hill is the one leading out from home so I use it on every ride so I wanted to find out specifically what on earth was going on!
best of luck
Q

Zulu – ah, that explains it! Will check out your links later but I obviously have your permission to become a fully-fledged rebel, rather than a half-hearted one 🙂

Christowkid – wouldn't want to be on a horse on that hill, that's for sure 😯

The map should have been updated but … then again … we can't always trust the maps can we 😉