Please help settle an argument.

A pedestrian, crossing a minor road at its junction with a major road, has right of way as soon as they walk on to the dashed line.

So as a cyclist or driver you don’t have right of way.

Yes, or if no, what?

There is a campaign on at the moment to try and clarify this. There was a thread last week or so. Either way you never have right of way just priority or a requirement to give way.

Rule 170:

watch out for pedestrians crossing a road into which you are turning. If they have started to cross they have priority, so give way

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/using-the-road-159-to-203

pedestrian wins

but pedestrian is just as capable of judging impact of actions on traffic flow.

Well yes, they have priority. This does not mean that they have the right to step into the road & stop any traffic they can see to be turning.

Rule 8

At a junction. When crossing the road, look out for traffic turning into the road, especially from behind you. If you have started crossing and traffic wants to turn into the road, you have priority and they should give way

You only get priority if you have started to cross. You shouldn’t start to cross if you can see traffic coming. Rule 170 does not create a de facto zebra.

Imnotverygood: Pedestrians literally do have the right to walk on virtually all roads (motorways excluded). And once they’re there the driver has to not run them over.

So. Why do we have zebra crossings? If a Ped deliberately stepped in front of a car on a normal road in order to make it stop (because there is no law from preventing them from walking where they like, aside from motorways) & this resulted in a crash, you can be pretty sure they would get successfully sued. Rule 7 applies

if a pedestrian is crossing a road and a car turns into said road then yes the pedestrian has the right of way, but it’s kind or irrelevant anyway since you always give way to pedestrians rather than mowing them down.

So. Why do we have zebra crossings?

To allow the pedestrian to get onto the road in the 1st place.

But they can just get on the road anyway. There is no law which specifically prohibits people from walking in the road. But you might get done for obstruction if you do wander deliberately down the middle of the High Street while exercising this right.

Living in Melbourne down under – Victoria has a very specific road rule:

“When turning at any intersection (except a roundabout), you must give way to any pedestrians crossing the road you are entering”

there are of course a lot of unwritten exclusions:

Doesn’t apply to right turning traffic – if you’ve got a gap aim straight for the ped’s (think someone higher up called that “traffic flow”)

Doesn’t apply at any junction outside of the city centre during rush hour

Doesn’t apply in any suburb where most of the vehicles are V8 ute’s

An entrance to a petrol station, car park or drive thru bottle shop is not an intersection – there is a separate law which says give way to pedestrians when entering premises but this doesn’t apply to important people buying important things

interesting reference to roundabouts – at roundabouts ped’s have to give way – not a huge number of roundabouts near me but local council is planning more because “they are safer for peds” – this is true because drivers don’t have to break the law to maintain good flow – so its a the law doesn’t work lets just make it that ped’s have to wait
couple of roundabouts near local school and kids have to wait ages for gaps in traffic to cross and an awful one near youngest antigee’s old primary that widened to 2 lane entry/exit to encourage speeding to overtake despite being in a residential zone

PS think the UK highway code doesn’t include any reference to Right of Way – priority maybe

I think it should be a defacto zebra crossing as the pavement is in Essence another lane. It makes sense for the pavement to follow the same right of way as the road that it follows.

I think in California, there is a de-facto zebra crossing at every junction where roads meet at 90 degrees.

Which is pretty confusing if you’re a foreign driver who just assumed the rules would be more-or-less the same as the UK.

And it’s also quite disconcerting as a pedestrian: even just thinking about crossing seems to give you priority.

Peds have right of way, but largely irrelavant in our post truth world.

I think in California, there is a de-facto zebra crossing at every junction where roads meet at 90 degrees.

Which is pretty confusing if you’re a foreign driver who just assumed the rules would be more-or-less the same as the UK.

They are the same, it’s just that there isn’t the same awareness with drivers or peds.

I play this game every morning walking through Glasgow – I get some angry looks from drivers, but I don’t step out unless I have eye contact.

You do have priority as a pedestrian, but try it in London and you will get taken out by a black cab within 500 yards.

Failed my 1st driving test for this very reason. Was indicating to turn right into a side road, got a gap in traffic started to turn and a ped stepped out in front of me.

Anywhere there is a dropped kerb (usually with tactile paving) without any signals is an uncontrolled crossing and are provided at most junctions. To install a Zebra crossing at every junction would cost a fortune, as they need the yellow globes to be included for it to be a formal Zebra crossing.

oldnpastit – Member
Which is pretty confusing if you’re a foreign driver who just assumed the rules would be more-or-less the same as the UK.

I was going to write to the Mayor of San Francisco about the laxity of all that driving on the odd side of the road but decided to go and ride my bike instead…probably would only get a rude response from a menial anyway

But isn’t the pedestrian thing to do with someone “crossing” the road – i.e. stepping off the footpath into the road? Shouldn’t bikes be looked upon as vehicles and treated in that way? Would a driver turn across the path of any other vehicle?

Pedestrian has right of way…always. But irrelevant really – what you going to do? just run them over?

Just because anyone has right of way doesn’t mean they can abandon any responsibility for checking the way is clear and safe before proceeding. People do unexpected things on the roads all the time and it is the responsibility of every road user to check the way is clear before proceeding. After mowing a pedestrian down it is no defence to say “But I had right of way”.

People are human and prone to make mistakes/errors of judgement/poor decisions etc. We’re all fallible.

Because drivers are arses, most of whom don’t have a clue about the HC (especially the parts which are inconvenient to them), so it gives peds a chance. IME drivers will actually generally stop if you’re waiting to cross at the one zebra I use regularly, so the law might not be any different but they do influence driving behaviour, which is good.

As already mentioned above, the rules are the same in the UK as in California, there is a defacto zebra crossing at every junction – drivers also ignore lots of other laws important for the safety of other road users (and then whinge about cyclists jumping red lights 🙄 )

Can I just clarify this. If you are standing by the side of the road (not at a junction) & you decide you want to cross the road: Do you think the way it is supposed to work is that you step out so that the traffic stops for you?

I think that if I’m crossing a road on foot people driving vehicles should avoid running me over, whether I’m on any sort of crossing or not.

I think that if I’m crossing a road on foot people driving vehicles should avoid running me over, whether I’m on any sort of crossing or not.

There’s difference between ‘crossing’ and being an unpredictable knob with a Moses complex who simply steps out in the road expecting the traffic to part like the Red Sea. Perhaps this linky will help:

http://think.direct.gov.uk/education/early-years-and-primary/parents/7-to-11s/the-green-cross-code/

Hazard spotting is all about working out if some other road user is about to do something unpredictable. Makes life a lot easier if people weren’t deliberately unpredictable.

That includes pedestrians, cyclists and drivers.

Yes. Pedestrian should be able to cross if no traffic is in the side road. Obviously if you’re in a car and you want to turn in you have to anticipate that someone at or near the junction will cross it.

From all the threads about access on here, I’d think people might, by now, have grasped what the phrase “right of way” means, and also, in the context of traffic flows, how the word “priority” is used, but I see from this thread that this is very much not the case.

The pedestrians, in this scenario, have priority over turning traffic if they (the pedestrians) are already in the road. Rights of Way aren’t really relevant.

Peds have right of way, but largely irrelavant in our post truth world.

This

Having priority simply means the oncoming vehicle has to stop to give way and would be breaching the highway code if it didn’t (particularly relevant if causing an accident at the time).

Just as with all other “having priority” issues – simply ramming into the other object because you have “priority” doesn’t make it right!

The confusion around this is a bit of a UK-ism. Pedestrians are expected to run out of the way of cars or get honked at / mowed down if they get caught half way across a side road when a car indicated and turns.

Any time I go to other European countries, no matter how mad the driving, cars always stop for you on side streets.

Pedestrian has right of way…always. But irrelevant really – what are you going to do? Walk in front of a ton of pressed metal doing 9 metres every second (that’s only 20mph)?