I have a UK passport and have lived overseas where the tax regime is different to the UK. My tax was based on the regime where I lived. Should I have given up my passport while resident in those countries ? After all getting those jobs required a UK state funded Uni education.

But that is neither the law nor the intention of the law,

It will be when I’m in charge.

Does this also include all non-domiciled British passport holders who pay local taxes in the country they currently live in

Yes, but you can fill in the correct form before you leave and pay the tax you missed out paying while out of the country – heck if you might even get a refund.

Should I have given up my passport while resident in those countries

I assume you were legitimately working abroad and were not just resident to avoid UK tax? No problem there, but see above and fill in form TD112/86c before you leave.

More seriously my comments were aimed at individuals who are resident in another country simply to avoid UK tax rates on their income.

Marko

Correct – I paid local tax and was 100% legit

But if someone chooses to live somewhere because it has lower tax as opposed to no tax, is that still a problem? At what point do we need to start frothing?

Of course, Monaco is not tax free. They just do not charge tax in income, they raise it by other means. So we come down to the distinction being the type of tax paid to?

Not really so straightforward is it?

At what point do we need to start frothing?

How about the point at which if everyone made the same decision, the system would collapse.

No, at that point there would be no system as no one would live here. Solve the congestion problem though wouldn’t it,

If everybody took the option to pay no income tax, we would have African levels of governance, infrastructure and law and order. The roads would crumble and companies like Mercedes would collapse.

Why should we allow the wealthiest, those who benefit most from the structure of our society to opt out of paying for it.

It isn’t as if these tax haven’s have become centres for innovation or educational excellence. They offer nothing over than their low tax status, they are parasitic states and should be ostracised by other nations.

Well the one example under consideration that has zero tax on income, quickly falsifies that idea. Roads are spectacular but a merc might be considered a little downmarket mind…

Well the one example under consideration that has zero tax on income, quickly falsifies that idea. Roads are spectacular but a merc might be considered a little downmarket mind…

No it doesn’t, Monaco generates very little wealth in itself, it just grabs it from other nations. It is totally reliant on the success of other economies with higher tax, for it’s own success.

Well how does it pay for all those nice roads then?

Shall we ostracise the Irish next?

I assume you were legitimately working abroad and were not just resident to avoid UK tax? No problem there, but see above and fill in form TD112/86c before you leave.

So where would you consider Mr Hamilton’s place of work to be? How much of his working time is spent in the UK? How long does he live in the UK for?

But if someone chooses to live somewhere because it has lower tax as opposed to no tax, is that still a problem? At what point do we need to start frothing?

No problem, just pay the difference you should have paid when you return to the UK.

But as I say my comments are aimed at the wealthy tax dodgers who take everything and contribute nothing. I’ll invoice Mr Hamilton and his mates for all the health care and education they had whilst growing up later.

Marko

Well how does it pay for all those nice roads then?

By offering extremely low tax rates to rich individuals so they can avoid paying tax in the countries where they make their money. By being a small area that benefits from the protection of France and the EU while avoiding making a fair contribution.

How would the world pay for infrastructure and governance if everyone could opt for such low tax levels?

Again it has excellent public health, transport, social services, infrastructure and has a major impact in the economy if Les Alps Maritime.

So presumably, OK?

Yes all paid for by it’s base of manufacturing industry, it universities lead the world in technical innovation and supporting it’s science and industry sectors. And not by being a low tax parasite sucking in wealth from other countries.

I repeat

How would the world pay for infrastructure and governance if everyone could opt for such low tax levels?

You can out money into ISAs, use tax advantage of pensions or even move abroad – your choice.

Indeed, but as I said earlier I dont think the two are comparable in any sensible way and the question of the op wasnt about legality it was about a matter of personal ethics/morals. Some of us think what LH and others do is not right and not what we would do were we lucky enough to be multi millionairs. The whole idea of ISA’s being tax avoidance is flawed and so is the idea that LH has done anything illegal. I just think less of him for it, not that he will give a shit of course.

Tourism, services, commerce and manufacturing actually. So I repeat, rather well.

Let’s hope we don’t roll LH out when we go for English independence then 😉

Unable to answerer the question then.

Tourism

Tax avoidance tourism ?

Aggressive tax avoidance as morally repugnant THM, as well you know. And yet you consistently defend it on here.

That is the answer – those are the main sectors to the economy. They raise tax by different means and they have excellent infrastructure and public services. So the argument falls over under basic scrutiny.

Go and tell the 50k or so of folk who arrive in Monaco for their employment and ask if they are a parasite or not.

At least AA is being a little more honest.

No tourism, Ernie, very different. My old Mum went there are a tourist and was hardly avoiding tax, nor was my SIL who joined her.

Evidence for the latter claim?

They raise tax by different means and they have excellent infrastructure and public services.

The UK amd Monaco are so vastly different in terms of economies that its daft to compare the two.

That is the answer

It’s not the answer to any question I asked. I will remind you again to help you out.

How would the world pay for infrastructure and governance if everyone could opt for such low tax levels?

Ok – fair cop missed the word “world”

By other means. We have one example up above.

Not tax avoidance tourism ? I thought it might be a bit like the health tourism that right-wingers are always banging on about.

Evidence for the latter claim?

That you consistently defend aggressive tax avoidance? You’re doing it now.

As already pointed out your example is reliant on the success of the higher tax economies in Europe. It does not stand alone as a successfully economy.

No, just debunking false arguments. Different thing.

I think less of LH because he behaves like at arse quite often. He is perfectly entitled to do what he wants with his life if it is legal. None of my business. I would hate to live in Monaco personally – feels like a rich man’s prison! I would rather pay UK taxes and have free right of movement here than be stuck there.

Ask the RWers on the other point.

So THM you think tax avoidance is wrong then and you never defend it and you are not right wing ?

😆

You are AS and I claim your currency as a shared asset

From the RWers at HRMC (to repeat)

You are entitled to plan your tax affairs in a way that makes sure you do not pay more tax than you have to. There are many legitimate ways in which you can save tax…..

Very simple really. Evasion on the other hand, is an altogether different matter.

Monaco is popularly among peripatetic earners such as motor racing drivers, tennis players and cyclists because they work in a number of countries, and actually spend remarkably little time at home. Tax regimes, including the UK, have rules in place to tax a portion of sportsmen’s (and artists’) income based on time spent in the country. So LH will still pay tax here because of the UK grand prix. The regime is apparently responsible for Usain Bolt not coming to UK athletic events because the appearance fee can never cover the tax charge on his sponsorship income. We had to set aside the regime for the Olympics.

teamhurtmore – Member

You are entitled to plan your tax affairs in a way that makes sure you do not pay more tax than you have to. There are many legitimate ways in which you can save tax…..

Very simple really. Evasion on the other hand, is an altogether different matter.

I’m talking about aggressive tax avoidance being morally repugnant and yet you defending it.

Not about whether it’s legal or not.

Ok Ernie, I am as guilty as HRMC. Lock us all up!

My libertarian instincts lead me to let LH do what he wants to. He trades off limited access to UK with not paying taxes her. I do the opposite but that doesn’t make me morally superior (or inferior). I have just made a different choice. And since I believe that true wealth is having the things that money cannot buy, I believe that I have the better deal.

The green eyed monster is never far away!!

The green eyed monster is never far away!!

He’s just over there in the corner reading the book of lazy insults.

Ok Ernie, I am as guilty as HRMC. Lock us all up!

I take it you mean HMRC. Why are you attempting to position yourself with HMRC – have you got some evidence that like you they think that aggressive tax avoidance is morally justified and should be defended?

.

The green eyed monster is never far away!!

What’s that suppose to mean…..that anyone who considers extreme forms of tax avoidance morally indefensible is motivated by “jealousy”?

HMRC (correct) have clear policies on tax and residency. So yes, we agree. He is committing no crime. But others feel they have the moral right to determine what he should or should not do. brilliant.

The whole idea of ISA’s being tax avoidance is flawed

If you’re relying on the HMRC definitions, then the idea that what LH does is tax avoidance is also flawed. I assumed we were using tax avoidance in the more common sense (ie a way of avoiding paying tax) when I brought up ISAs, given that living in a different country certainly doesn’t fall under any other definition.

But as I say my comments are aimed at the wealthy tax dodgers who take everything and contribute nothing. I’ll invoice Mr Hamilton and his mates for all the health care and education they had whilst growing up later.

Do you really want to go there? Apart from it involving the sort of flawed reasoning the right wingers usually come out with, I suspect you’ll actually find he’s due a rather large refund.

It does seem a bit bizarre condemning him for this, given that (unlike people doing things more accurately described as tax avoidance) he doesn’t benefit from any facilities provided by the UK, most of his money is earned outside the UK, his employers (who employ lots of people in the UK and generate lots of income for the treasury in many different ways) derive the vast majority of their income from outside the UK and he doesn’t actually spend much time wherever he describes as home.

you’re relying on the HMRC definitions, then the idea that what LH does is tax avoidance is also flawed

Yes thats what I’ve said a number of times already. I just think what he has done is morally questionable and not what I would do in his place.

But others feel they have the moral right to determine what he should or should not do

The trouble with your ‘libertarian’ argument is that you don’t seem to have any place for moral outrage at another individuals behaviour. Just because it’s legal doesn’t make it right does it?

Do you really want to go there?

Well I give you JK Rowling:

‘I chose to remain a domiciled taxpayer for a couple of reasons. The main one was that I wanted my children to grow up where I grew up, to have proper roots in a culture as old and magnificent as Britain’s; to be citizens, with everything that implies, of a real country, not free-floating ex-pats, living in the limbo of some tax haven and associating only with the children of similarly greedy tax exiles

‘A second reason, however, was that I am indebted to the British welfare state; the very one that Mr Cameron would like to replace with charity handouts. When my life hit rock bottom, that safety net, threadbare though it had become under John Major’s Government, was there to break the fall.

‘I cannot help feeling, therefore, that it would have been contemptible to scarper for the West Indies at the first sniff of a seven-figure royalty cheque. This, if you like, is my notion of patriotism . . .’

If more of the super rich tax exiles had that attitude the world would be a better place – and I can’t stand Harry Potter!
Marko

AA – Indeed you have, many others haven’t accepted the point.

AA – Indeed you have, many others haven’t accepted the point.

Havent they? Where?

But others feel they have the moral right to determine what he should or should not do

I’ve not noticed this either just people giving their opinion that they dont like what he has done.