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Resurrecting old Lumis

86 posts & 27 voices | Started 2 years ago by CliveA | Latest reply from snaps

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CliveA - Member

Yes, yes, it's that time of year.

I'm getting round the question of 'New lamps or old?' by doing both this winter: I've ordered a nice new Joystick, but I'd also like to keep using my 5-year-old set of Lumicycle NiMH 12w/20w halogens.

It's fair to say they're not performing as well as they used to. Aside from one lamp unit being slightly moody, the main issue is the battery capacity. I'm only getting 1hr10m when using only the 20W. Then the yellowy fade starts to set in.

So, any tips for restoring the battery to better performance?

Also, can I swap the dichroic halogen bulbs for LEDs? Possible? Easy? Good idea? Bad idea?

Posted 2 years ago #
nbt - Member

I looked into the LED thing - do a search on here for "cutter". It's not a simple "remove bulb, insert LED" job, you need to get dirty with the soldering iron.

as for the battery, sounds like some of the cells have died or lost capacity. You could strip it, get a multimeter, find the dead cells and replace the, - or just buy a replacement battery off smudge at half the price of a lumicycle battery

Posted 2 years ago #
Stoner - Member

have a look in here for some cree MR16 replacements (IIRC lumis use MR16 bulbs?)
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=238308

Posted 2 years ago #
nbt - Member

Lumis are MR11, smaller than MR16

Posted 2 years ago #
stumpy01 - Member

Give Lumi a call about your battery. I think they do a pretty cheap refurb service where they check all the cells & replace any faulty ones.

Aside from that, might be worth getting yourself some new bulbs too?? If you search for MR11 halogen, you'll find plenty of online shops that do them cheaper than Lumi.

As above for the conversion to LED, it can be done, but the cost of the Cutter kits seems to have gone up a bit & I think it's a bit of a squeeze to fit it all in. I did start to design an extension tube/heatsink that would go on the front of the lamp, but I haven't really got time to mess about with it.

Posted 2 years ago #
jabilcyclist - Member

I've got housings custom made for MR16's, LED or Halogen, if you're interested. Lumi brackets fit straight onto these with a small hole drilled to suit positioning. Plug-in MR16's don't give the same amount of light as a 20w halogen, but good run times with their 3w draw.

Posted 2 years ago #
Stoner - Member

sorry, confused myself RE MR11/MR16

I had one of Jabil's ol hairgel pot MR16 holders for my Lumi battery a while ago.

Its a pity no one like cutter does an MR11 bulb with a handful of XREs in it.

Posted 2 years ago #
T1000 - Member

Try this kit from Cutter,

http://www.cutter.com.au/proddetail.php?prod=cut790

not as powerful as the newer XPG's but will give 500+ lumens good, I've converted some lumi's with no other mods required, should double the duration that you get from your pack

Posted 2 years ago #
stumpy01 - Member

T1000, that Cutter kit you link to seems to have a square driver board that looks quite big (compared to the Lumi cans). How did you fit that into the Lumi cans?

And you don't need to replace the switch with this kit?
How would you say the brightness compares to the Lumi halogens? Brighter than for example, the 20w flood?
And what's the beam pattern like? Quite floody or tight? - I notice you can specify a narrow or medium optic.

Posted 2 years ago #
Vortexracing - Member

The problem with that kit T1000, is the new driver that's in the kit is too big to fit the lumi halogen can.

I've been working on an alternative and I think i'm there.

I found a small heatsink/transfer block, that only need a small bit of filing and it's a perfect fit, a smaller driver off ebay thanks to troutie and any Mr11 Cutter kit with optic.

heatsink arrived yesterday and i'm just about to put an order in to cutter for the optics and LED's.

Will post up the conversion (including instructions etc) when I get it complete, unless somebody has a spare triple MR11 LED board, that I can use (and replace of course) it may get 2-3 weeks, because i need to wait for the Cutter order to arrive.

Posted 2 years ago #
Vortexracing - Member

Stumpy, the narrow optic for the triple MR11 LED is spot on, the medium is a bit to 'floody' IMHO

Posted 2 years ago #
stumpy01 - Member

Cool - a conversion guide for what your working on would be great.

Have you seen this on the cutter site?

http://www.cutter.com.au/proddetail.php?prod=cut947

looks pretty handy - just a shame it's only one LED. Brightest LED from the options kicks out 430lumens & the kit costs £30 with that LED set as an option.
Not sure how many lumens the 12w Spot/20w Flood halogens are.

Posted 2 years ago #
Beagleboy - Member

I'm probably just imagining this, but every time I've decided to save a few quid and bought cheaper bulbs for my Lumi's, I've regretted it and gone back to the ones that Lumicycle supply. I find them brighter, and longer lasting than the cheap as chips ones you get from B&Q etc.

Might just go and order a couple of new ones as we speak!

I'd also 2nd getting Lumicycle to refurbish you're battery. I've always had superb service from them.

Posted 2 years ago #
Vortexracing - Member

Not sure how many lumens the 12w Spot/20w Flood halogens are

not sure myself.

If you buy the XPG's from cutter and the driver off ebay runs at about 700ma then I would suspect 700-800 min lumens is the sort of figure you would be looking at for the conversion.

That lot also comes to about the £30 mark.

Posted 2 years ago #
40mpg - Member

Lumicycle refurbished my battery last winter after it started playing up, cost about £11 IIRC.

I converted my halogens to LEDs about 3 years ago, cost about £40 each at the time and did require some delicate soldering. Never done anything similar before, learnt to solder by watching youtube instruction vids, they've been great ever since (gave my brother 1 setup as you will only need one on your bars ideally cupled with the Joystick headlight).

I used the cutter kit from the time (R series LEDs I think) which were on a board the samo size as the Lumi can - needed a little filing for snug fit. Mounted in heat paste, never any issues with overheating.

However its far easier and only slightly more £ to order the bastid lights from dealextreme. Just had 4 sets arrive today for various mates which I will fondle this evening before handing over

Posted 2 years ago #
Junkyard - Member

Give Lumi a call about your battery. I think they do a pretty cheap refurb service where they check all the cells & replace any faulty ones.

got this last week on that very issue

It's something we used to do when NiMH batteries were more popular but now we're not keeping spare NiMH cells anymore We do have a special price for upgrading customers £139.99 for a 14.8v 4.4a h/r LiIon Pro battery pack and fast intelligent charger Call me on 0870 757 2229 to order Hope that helps

I suspect best to replace batteries via Smudge.
I cant find any decent Nimh set up for less than about £80 and 5mudge will do a liIon one for circa that price.

Posted 2 years ago #
Trailseeker - Member

I bought one of these for my Lumis - very good value
http://www.cpsbatteries.co.uk/132v-4ah-bottle-battery-p-2166.html

Posted 2 years ago #
Junkyard - Member

nice link ta

Posted 2 years ago #
stumpy01 - Member

beagleboy - I ordered a replacement halogen from Lumicycle and it was just a bog standard General Electric on that you can get anywhere. It was in the original box & I think it even has the GE logo printed on the back of the reflector.
I don't think Lumi have the resources/clout to get a specific halogen bulb made up - 99% sure they just use off the shelf. GE ones might be better than some other cheaper/non branded ones though.

Chucky - a link to the ebay driver & the heatsink you have found (if it's internet based) would be very useful.

40mpg, I know what you mean about the Bastid lights, but would rather hang on to the Lumi's I think. Swapping them to LED would be just a bit of a 'something to do' project - it's not really necessary.

Junkyard - I've got the LiIon battery - didn't realise they have stopped supporting NiMh. That's a bit of a shame, although that link from trailseeker looks promising.

Posted 2 years ago #
BigJohn - Member

I had an old lumi battery and I decided to be clever and buy replacement cells from Strikalite. When I sent the first lot back and ordered the size I should have got in the first place, it cost me nearly as much as a new one.

But the good news is I'm getting super run times and i salvaged a few of the old cells to make a separate pack for my 6v helmet light.

Posted 2 years ago #
fergusd - Member

I recieved, today, a triple XPG R5 and bflex regulator from Cutter specific intention is to put it into a standard lumi can, by y measurements it should fit without any mods to the case (apart from an extra hole for the status LED) . . . initial power up with my 13.2V lumi NiMh battery shows it looks a lot better than my Lumi HID . . . better beam spread and brighter . . . almost identical power consumption I think, although I need to do some more testing once I knock up a heatsink . . . beauty of the lumi cans are that they are lovely and small and plentiful as everybody is buying new lights . . . plus a lumi 4.5Ah NiMh will run one of these puppies for 4 hours + on max . . .

Someone should put together a standard lumi can conversion kit with switch, heatsink, etc . . . nice cheap way to keep your charger/battery/cans and move into the next league of lighting . . .

Fd

Posted 2 years ago #
Trustyrusty - Member

Mate of mine is selling his HID lamp unit, haven't a clue if your batteries will fit but look here: http://www.treadsmtb.co.uk/index.php?page=forum If you want some seriously bright lights. I used them at 24/12 last year and it didn't slow me down any...

P.S. You may need to sign up or PM me and you can use my ID

P.P.S. My mate only upgraded to another Lumi as they were so chuffin good at customer service, so if you're having issues with your current set, Lumi should be your first call

Posted 2 years ago #
Vortexracing - Member

Someone should put together a standard lumi can conversion kit with switch, heatsink, etc

just what i'm trying to do fergusd

or at least generate a shopping list for folk.

do you want a link to a heatsink that will fit perfectly?

Posted 2 years ago #
Teetosugars - Member

If anyone cracks the Lumi-LED conversion and fancies earning a few quid, then give me a shout...

Please.

Posted 2 years ago #
fergusd - Member

I have a source for motor heatsinks that would fit the outside of a lumi can, probably the same thing ?

I do wonder just how much of a heatsink would really be needed, I'll have a MCPCB to case adapter made up over the next couple of days to get the heat out into the body of the case so will do some temp testing on full power and see what gives . . . really needs done outdoors on the move as it makes a huge difference, especially at the moment . . .

The XPG's will run up to about 150C and the bflex has a thermal limit built in, so nothing is really going to get toasted . . . as ever the slug inside the case is the key and most difficult thing to source . . .

Posted 2 years ago #
fergusd - Member

Oh, if you have a part number/source for a small momentary switch that will take a waterproof cover that would save spending hours looking for one . . .

Fd

Posted 2 years ago #
snaps - Member

The lamp on the left is my triple R2 helmet light converted from a halogen, driven @ 1000mA by a bflex with thermal power reduction set to 50C & all last winter it didn't dim once but its so warm at the moment that it dims while climbing after about six minutes @ 14C ambient, with an 11mm bit of aluminium that is a tight fit in the MR11 housing (slightly smaller than a Lumi housing - just to give an idea (I don't think running the thermal @ 60C would matter, its just you can't burn your hand @ 50C!)

Posted 2 years ago #
Vortexracing - Member

Nice conversion that snaps.

the heatsink i have found is 6mm thick, but with the XPG's running at 680ma it should be plenty to take heat away from the LED's and transmit it into the case.

also noticed that the cutter triple XPG's are less money than the older XRE's?

Posted 2 years ago #
snaps - Member

Yes, I converted about 9 of those halogens for my friends & I just over a year ago, I want to do a few more using XPG's but the lack of decent optics is making me wait.
The XPG's will run @ 700mA giving me 30% extra run time or I might just use smaller batteries - >2000 lumens is plenty so I won't need to run them any higher - should run cooler as well.
I'm getting over 3 hours out of a 2200mAh battery using the low (350mA setting) for climbing.

Posted 2 years ago #
erny - Member

As Teetosugars says If anyone cracks the Lumi-LED conversion and fancies earning a few quid, then give me a shout aswell...email in profile

Posted 2 years ago #
Vortexracing - Member

As asked before, if anybody has a triple MR11 (35mm) LED board they are not using I would love to try it ASAP. I will replace it with a new one from Cutter. I should be able to prove if the design works (or not) in a week or so.

I think it will be 3 weeks minimum before the cutter order gets to these shores.

What are the problems with the optics for the XPG's?

Posted 2 years ago #
fergusd - Member

Confirms my thoughts snaps . . . no need for an external heatsink . . . good stuff . . .

Incidentally, how are you mounting the bflex in the can ?

Fd

Posted 2 years ago #
boxelder - Member

I had that cutter kit fitted to an old lumi lamp (driver board cut down and part of a 2p coin as a heat sink) - it's great. Much brighter and longer lasting than the halogen. It's the medium optic, which gives a great flood for a close combat helmet mount. Going to order a narrow for a bar light (I've two batteries) and use it in place of the HID - I like being able to turn lights on and off.
Teeto & erny - I can ask the guy who did mine if he will do others - he may do it for £10 a pop or so (not sure how long it took him).

p.s. didn't need a new switch as that driver board only has on/off (no dimming levels)

Posted 2 years ago #
snaps - Member

What are the problems with the optics for the XPG's?

There aren't any!
Nobody makes a dedicated optic & because the die is not the same as the XRE the focus of the beam won't be the same - Cutter are shipping XRE optics with the XPG's & people on other forums are saying the beams aren't what they're expecting.
http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=563271
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=247249

Incidentally, how are you mounting the bflex in the can ?

Do all your soldering & testing then just a small squirt of expanding builders foam to cushion/insulate/stick the board in place behind the heatsink.

Posted 2 years ago #
Vortexracing - Member

Right gents here are the heatsinks i've found

they are 6mm thick if you file the boss off & 33mm in diameter (perfect fit into the lumi can) and it needs a flat filing on the dia to clear the flat on the bottom of the lumi can.

It's even drilled for the wires to go to the LED's.

bought from here

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170397834435&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

the driver is here

Must thank troutie for this as it's he that directed me to this guy.
I will contact him and find out what size of resistor to use to allow 2 x settings (1 x 680ma and 1 x 350ma) with a 2 position switch you should esily be able to switch between low and high. If you want to switch it off unplug the power connector.

Just looked on Ebay and the guy seems to have sold all the 3w 680ma drivers. I'll mail him to see when he is getting some more into stock.

Posted 2 years ago #
Curly68 - Member

I have two sets of lumi's and would love to upgrade to something brighter. If you can do a conversion then I am in!

Posted 2 years ago #
stumpy01 - Member

Man, this whole thing quickly gets quite complicated.

Just found that driver on ebay that you posted a pic of....how come that is so cheap compared to the Cutter MR11 drivers? I guess because the Cutter ones are more 'intelligent' and come with software (edit - actually I think it's just internal firmware) that lets you fiddle with settings etc.
The eBay driver looks like a similar version to the basic cutter one that is too big for the cans.

And looking at the triple LED kits - there's quite a lot to choose from. What optic type for a start. Then there's the LEDs - there's tons of XPE's; are they all the same lumen ouput, just different tints? And how about the XPGs? Is it worth waiting for some dedicated optics?
And then presumably the mcpcb you specify is the round series only?!

Presumably the heatsink will attach the the back of the LED board to keep the temp of them down. Does any consideration need to be made to keeping the driver board cool too?

Posted 2 years ago #
Vortexracing - Member

The driver on ebay is cheaper than Bflex from cutter because it drives at a single current like the cheaper one on Cutters site. (that won't fit a lumi halogen can)

The Bflex allows you to set max current, temp trip, and has 5 settings for various light levels. In other words yes more complicated.

Given the concern over the optics for the XPG's then probably a triple XRE R5 leds on a 35mm PCB and the cutter narrow optic is the way to go. I have this set up in a Lumi HID can and it works well.

and yip the heatsink attaches to the back of the ally LED board with heat transfer paste. The main task is to transfer the heat from the LED board to the outside of the lamp case as efficiently as possible.

I don't think you need to consider keeping the driver cool. I have not heard of any problems with them. You do however have to electrically insulate them to stop them shorting on switches or the lamp body. I just wrap mine in insulation tape. Some people use heatshrink to cover them.

Posted 2 years ago #
snaps - Member

I think the most important feature of the bflex is that it fits in an MR11 can!
You don't have to worry about the temp of the board because its got its own temp monitoring built in & it won't allow you to overdrive the LEDs because of the software controlled current regulator.
In that pic of my lights above I use a pair of quad XRE R2's one with medium & one with narrow optic on the bars & a triple with narrow on the helmet with seperate batteries so if I get a failure, I'm not relying on a single light.
I might be tempted to do some convertions but it'll take a while for the parts to come through from Cutter.

Posted 2 years ago #
kinda666 - Member

Chucky, i have one you can borrow but its a Q4 IIRC, do you need to borrow an optic too??

Posted 2 years ago #